Are Visa & Mastercard going to be the death of fiat currency?

[Velomous]

Visa & Mastercard are trying to dictate what people can and cannot use their money for and it's quite frankly absurd. Particularly they are currently targeting adult content, but I doubt it'll end there.

With no readily available alternatives besides iffy cryptocurrencies, is that where we're headed? Is this how the death of fiat currency begins? Or are we gonna get a sane alternative to Visa & Mastercard to keep it alive? Is there an actual alternative? I'm curious cuz fuck these companies. I use their cards only because as far as I know there isn't anything else.

 

[| Vee |]

Visa & Mastercard are trying to dictate what people can and cannot use their money for and it's quite frankly absurd. Particularly they are currently targeting adult content, but I doubt it'll end there.

With no readily available alternatives besides iffy cryptocurrencies, is that where we're headed? Is this how the death of fiat currency begins? Or are we gonna get a sane alternative to Visa & Mastercard to keep it alive? Is there an actual alternative? I'm curious cuz fuck these companies. I use their cards only because as far as I know there isn't anything else.

Fiat died the day Dollar was un-pegged/unlink with Gold. We are merely using fiat on faith... and bcz every other country had buncha dollars when unlink happened so they continued to use it as nothing happened.

Visa & Mastercard, etc. are just bullshit extensions of CBDC's (basically government controls what and where you spend money on and ban you as they see fit, A.K.A your money is not yours, it's government's).

Cryptocurrency are hope with how they are being accepted globally with all those ETF's approvals worldwide(Mainly USA and CHINA for now, RUSSIA may be behind the scenes too). The technology is itself new in terms of where developers see the full model for now but it is the reason it is prone to scams and frauds and people are more likely to be scammed due to buncha reasons (new tech, less awareness, no idea how to use properly, too much techy stuff, etc).

BRICS is the another alternative to $ being worked on by 5 major economics countries such as Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa being full members and UAE, IRAN, ETHOPIA AND EGYPT being it's members with 13 other countries on the pending list too. BUT it is also rumored to be blockchain based or at least they are looking into it. So, it would be safe to assume that it can be a cryptocurrency and with involvement of 20 or so countries the likely hood of being scammed is way less than the cryptocurrency launched by some private company *cough*Sam Bankman-Fried*cough**cough*FTX*cough**cough*Luna*cough*.

So, I would say Crypto or more precisely blockchain is the future as of now.

 

[Velomous]

BRICS is the another alternative to $ being worked on by 5 major economics countries such as Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa being full members and UAE, IRAN, ETHOPIA AND EGYPT

UAE and China? They're even worse than the americans! The only halfway decent countries on that list are Brazil, Russia(barely...) and India.

But well, with Visa and Mastercards' shit the demand is rising for an alternative, it's honestly to the point where I suspect it's intentional, like Viisa and Mastercard are self destructing so that some cryptocurrency can be introduced to solve all our problems.

 

[| Vee |]

UAE and China? They're even worse than the americans! The only halfway decent countries on that list are Brazil, Russia(barely...) and India.

But well, with Visa and Mastercards' shit the demand is rising for an alternative, it's honestly to the point where I suspect it's intentional, like Viisa and Mastercard are self destructing so that some cryptocurrency can be introduced to solve all our problems.

Even if one or two countries don't have a good reputation among other matters but in this scenario they are not dictating alone but it's a consensus of all participant countries and they really want to replace $ with a more stable one.

CBDC's... You'll see it all. See China and their payment system that works on WeChat, that is also CBDC's. More than 28 countries were looking into CBDC's 6-7 months prior.

We'll see how much they can fuck shit up.

 

[Velomous]

We'll see how much they can fuck shit up.

I see, yeah this BRICS currency sounds kinda good compared to every other existing fiat currency since it's created and backed by that many countries, these countries will keep each other and in turn the currency in check so no one government can just print it like so much paper (like the US dollar lol)

But I'm not seeing anything indicating that it's going to be a cryptocurrency, it'd be the most logical for it to be a cryptocurrency, but it looks like it'll probably be fiat.

 

[| Vee |]

I see, yeah this BRICS currency sounds kinda good compared to every other existing fiat currency since it's created and backed by that many countries, these countries will keep each other and in turn the currency in check so no one government can just print it like so much paper (like the US dollar lol)

But I'm not seeing anything indicating that it's going to be a cryptocurrency, it'd be the most logical for it to be a cryptocurrency, but it looks like it'll probably be fiat.

They ARE going to use Blockchain. Here

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[Advent Games]

My thoughts on currency:

Fiat money only works if there is an actual base behind the fiat. All "fiat currency" today is debased completely, so essentially worthless. They work only based on faith and speculation on the economy that's behind each respective currency. The "economy" itself is too nebulous for any one person to understand (if even the central planners royally cock it up all the time), so that's purely speculation as well. Today's fiat money is not fiat money at all.

CDBCs mean the end of your freedom completely, and all through remote soft power. No need to send the Gestapo after you or have an army of Stasi agents to monitor the public 24/7. They can just prevent you from using "your" money. Since everything needs money, that means effective total control over your behaviour.

Cryptocurrency might work, but in the current world, it is used purely for speculation. There is no economy to back it up, which makes it worse than the current "fiat currency." The price is entirely determined by how much of it is exchanged back and forth between existing fiat currency ─ in other words, it's a literal make-believe that requires some dialectical mental hoops to jump through to believe.

 

[woody554]

Fiat died the day Dollar was un-pegged/unlink with Gold. We are merely using fiat on faith...

uh, that's the opposite of what happened. fiat was CREATED because gold standard caused the greatest global meltdown in history, to prevent it never happening again. that's why fiat isn't tied to gold.

and it's not taken on faith either, instead of any material asset it's linked with interests rates and through that with _taxation_. so when you print more money out of thin air, and that's btw literally where ALL money comes from, it affects interest rates. so a government can NEVER run out of money, but printing more will raise interest rates. which also means every single moron who either scares you with public debt is either lying (if they studied economics they know better) or just has no clue what money even is.

public debt is NOT really debt, it's a number describing how much government produced with the money taxpayers gave it. if there's a deficit, it means government produced MORE value in infrastructure and services than it got money for. if there's a surplus it means government STOLE that much from taxpayers. as in: taxpayers gave 100 coins to government for building roads, but government only built 80 coins worth of them and stole the rest. it's the exact opposite of how it's usually described, because the people scaring you with public debt are scamming you.

back to the OP: credit cards ARE using fiat. all actual money is fiat, and you're using it with your credit card. cryptos are not money and THEY'RE not tied to anything except the greatest fool buying that worthless scam asset from you. none of what you say makes any sense, except that credit card companies are corrupt piece of shits. the way to fix that is regulation, but it's tough when they're bribing politicians to legislate in their favor. cryptos are not an option, it's just another form of utterly corrupt scam economy.

 

[Velomous]

cryptos are not an option, it's just another form of utterly corrupt scam economy.

It's better than fiat, it's easy to understand since it's value is decided usually by only one or two fairly stable variables instead of a couple hundred ever changing ones that no person can keep track of. You described how fiat currency is supposed to work, but does it really? How does anyone know if a government decided to rpint a little extra money to give themselves free money? Sure there's a limit to how far you can go with that before it becomes too obvious, but it's not like governments are transparent about their own accounting, so how would anyone know? And that's just one of the many many holes in the system you just described...

You're right that crypto is currently just a scam, but this brics thing sounds like it would be the real deal, because it's not really a scam if it's backed and guaranteed by multiple countries.

 

[desmosome]

It's better than fiat, it's easy to understand since it's value is decided usually by only one or two fairly stable variables instead of a couple hundred ever changing ones that no person can keep track of. You described how fiat currency is supposed to work, but does it really? How does anyone know if a government decided to rpint a little extra money to give themselves free money? Sure there's a limit to how far you can go with that before it becomes too obvious, but it's not like governments are transparent about their own accounting, so how would anyone know? And that's just one of the many many holes in the system you just described...

You're right that crypto is currently just a scam, but this brics thing sounds like it would be the real deal, because it's not really a scam if it's backed and guaranteed by multiple countries.

Crypto is literally just another speculative asset. It's even more speculative than things like derivatives since it's not even tied to something that has inherent value.

Its value is determined simply by supply and demand and nothing else. What is one bitcoin? Its worth is measured in dollars. So if you take away its equivalency to the dollar, what do you even have? And what's the point of it? Just think for one second how impossible it would be to upend the current economic structure and usher in a era of crypto. At best, crypto will be tied to the dollar and that's where it will derive it's worth from. So how exactly is this gonna free us from the banks or whatever the fuck crypto boys are talking about?

 

[Velomous]

Its value is determined simply by supply and demand and nothing else.

You mean like everything else. And that's the thing, that's what sets crypto apart from fiat currency, crypto has a limited/set/controlled or even finite supply which makes it far simpler to calculate it's worth than fiat currency.

 

[Lerd0]

...just preppin for the coming funny convo.....

 

[aura-dev]

I would like if the model that's prevalent in the EU could spread, where whenever I buy something I get a list of payment processors (and not just credit card) and all they do is wire money bank to bank.

 

[| Vee |]

uh, that's the opposite of what happened. fiat was CREATED because gold standard caused the greatest global meltdown in history, to prevent it never happening again. that's why fiat isn't tied to gold.
...

Creation of Fiat was never in question but how it's death will start and I was responding to that. Here

...
With no readily available alternatives besides iffy cryptocurrencies, is that where we're headed? Is this how the death of fiat currency begins?...

In response I said...

Fiat died the day Dollar was un-pegged/unlink with Gold. We are merely using fiat on faith... and bcz every other country had buncha dollars when unlink happened so they continued to use it as nothing happened.
...

...
and it's not taken on faith either, instead of any material asset it's linked with interests rates and through that with _taxation_. so when you print more money out of thin air, and that's btw literally where ALL money comes from, it affects interest rates. so a government can NEVER run out of money, but printing more will raise interest rates. which also means every single moron who either scares you with public debt is either lying (if they studied economics they know better) or just has no clue what money even is.
...

Let me ask you a question why Do you think US has massive gold in storage? they had shit before and their gold storage surged when they linked dollar with Gold
US: "He you know you can carry this paper and in exchange you can get equivalent to that amount of gold, now you don't have to carry buncha gold when you travel instead carry this paper and guess what every one is using it."
and later down a the line
US: "Yeah now gold is separate and $ is separate." side note: Franklin Roosevelt 1930 and Nixon Shock 1971
OTHERS: "WTH! Give our gold back!"
US: "You sold us, ha."
OTHER: "But what about $."
US: "You can keep using it as it is."
OTHER: "But what it's worth now since it's delinked with Gold?"
US: "The more you use and exchange the more worthy it is."

In short, it bullshit tandem. Mass level of theft and nobody can do any thing. Why? bcz they fucking exchanged Gold for worthless money backed by nothing but false notion what it is worth something and US laughed in everyone's face while collecting gold and handing...just paper.

And this is where we are now:

As for Crypto, You can limit it's total amount unlike $. It's another way but it doesn't mean it's the right, especially when it's not even fully developed and is in early stages of it's tech as of now.

 

[peterppp]

In short, it bullshit tandem. Mass level of theft and nobody can do any thing. Why? bcz they fucking exchanged Gold for worthless money backed by nothing but false notion what it is worth something and US laughed in everyone's face while collecting gold and handing...just paper.

gold is largely just a speculative asset. there is some material use for it, contrary to crypto, but gold's value is 90+% backed on nothing except what people think it's worth, which is why the gold value also varies a lot over time

As for Crypto, You can limit it's total amount unlike $. It's another way but it doesn't mean it's the right, especially when it's not even fully developed and is in early stages of it's tech as of now.

right, like no one can create a new crypto whenever they want more crypto. or like states couldn't limit how more money is printed if they wanted to.
there is no difference.

 

[| Vee |]

gold is largely just a speculative asset. there is some material use for it, contrary to crypto, but gold's value is 90+% backed on nothing except what people think it's worth, which is why the gold value also varies a lot over time
...

Gold physically exist, scarce and is used in many industries and Fiat is buncha paper with government just printing as they see fit losing it's worth.

...
right, like no one can create a new crypto whenever they want more crypto. or like states couldn't limit how more money is printed if they wanted to.
there is no difference.

This is absurd argument that anyone can create crypto. We are not here discussing "Anyone" but Countries (BRICS).

...
BRICS is the another alternative to $ being worked on by 5 major economics countries such as Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa being full members and UAE, IRAN, ETHOPIA AND EGYPT being it's members with 13 other countries on the pending list too. BUT it is also rumored to be blockchain based or at least they are looking into it. So, it would be safe to assume that it can be a cryptocurrency and with involvement of 20 or so countries the likely hood of being scammed is way less than the cryptocurrency launched by some private company *cough*Sam Bankman-Fried*cough**cough*FTX*cough**cough*Luna*cough*.
...

 

[MAKE DEEPFAKES]

Money is like manure: of very little use except to be spread.

 

[Boarborn]

don't tell anybody but i've evaded a lot of tax by using crypto and my uncle's guidance(a lawyer) buhihihi

 

[delta69120]

The below portion is straight from Mastercard's website from their release post in April 2021 relating to when this came into effect. Unless I'm missing something that happened recently.

Don't mind their poor grammar, a multi-billion dollar company can't afford a proof reader.

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Spoiler: grammar salute

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If you look at the text I changed to yellow, you'll notice they just want a free-porn department where they can leak all paywalled content. /s

 

[Squark ⚧❤️]

Where I live, next to no store will accept crypto. Card payments are fine but the volatility of crypto is not a good thing for shops that depend on stable prices and the value of money. If crypto ever replaces physical money then I will not be able to get to work to do my job.