BAD POLL(closed): In any adult game, you ALWAYS go for the love, lust, or degenerate path?

[Niv-Mizzet the Firemind]

Good criticism. If you have time, could you create a short or long list of behavioral examples where the mc is not shitty. (This request is open to all if you have time.)

In game, there will be NPC and factions who are shitty and not shitty. No matter which side you're on, you can still be kinky, do anal, be with trans or dickgirls.

The goal is to design a system where you identify with NPC who share your same values, then end up as enemies vs those who don't share your same values (the shitty ones). Basically, good and evil.

Good (not shitty) [LOVE]
Are the following virtues based on love or lust? I think love, please correct me if I'm wrong. Love can still make the dick hard and be arousing.
- Does not entirely objectify women, allowing their agency to remain intact, but still embrace a degree of fun sexiness.
- Does not verbally abuse or humiliate his women, nor do the women do this to the MC.
- Does not dress them up in ways that make them appear whorish or complete and total base sluts???
- Does not smack his bitches up when they mess up???
- (Can a person who is not shitty be a sadist???)
Good MC: "This is my beautiful mother, as you can see, she's a princess, a goddess. You lay a hand on her, there'll be trouble. Anyone disrespect her, there'll be trouble. All you shit heads are gonna learn how to treat women with respect. Treating your women poorly is wrong, what the hell is wrong with you? This neighborhood is gonna change!"

But what if player is a little bit of good and a little bit of shitty? [LUST]
- Then, allow player to create their own faction.

Middle MC: "Welcome to my brothel. This is my sexy mother. Here are the rules for fucking her. As long as you follow the rules, enjoy yourself and have a good time. Treat the women with a fair degree of respect. You can get a bit rough, they're strong and won't break. This is an area of respect & kinky fun."

Middle MC Harem: "I'm taking this brothel over and turning it into my personal sex den. It will serve as my HQ. I will treat my women with both respect, but still have kinky naughty fun. Which one of you lovely ladies is ready to be pissed on?"

Evil (shitty) [DEGENERACY]
- Objectifies his women as much as he wants.
- Verbally abuses and humiliate his women in private and public.
- Dresses them in ways to humiliate them.
- Smacks them up (yet in a consensual manner, the women want this).
- Does the most evil shit possible to hurt women for sexual pleasure (SADISTIC, consensual)
Example:
Evil MC: "This is my whore mother, as you can see, she's a total slut. Feel free to use her as a fuck hole and spit on her. All of your mothers will soon become total whores. This neighborhood is gonna change. I'm tired of all you pussies putting your women on pedestals, treating them with respect. How pathetic."
Evil NPC: "That sounds great, I can't wait to spit on my mom while fuck-choking her."
Good MC: "WTF, what am I hearing?! What the hell is wrong with all of you?! *QUEUE MUSIC* *Combat Begins*"

First of all, it's gonna be a little hard to explain some things because my english is lacking.

I think lust shouldn't be opposite of (or positioned anywhere in relation to) love. You can love someone and have the desire to fuck them constantly and do all kinds of stuff to them. It's all a matter of consent and respecting the boundaries your partner has set.

Now, for your definitions. I assume the main plot is that the mc somehow comes in control of a brothel, something like wicked rouge.

Good guy:

- Does not entirely (emphasis mine) objectify women, allowing their agency to remain intact, but still embrace a degree of fun sexiness.
A good guy wouldn't objectify women at all.

- Does not verbally abuse or humiliate his women, nor do the women do this to the MC.
It doesn't matter what the women do to the mc, a good guy wouldn't verbally abuse women. Then there's another issue. A good guy wouldn't consider women to be his. If he had a brothel, the women at worst would be his employees and they would have the independence to leave.

- (Can a person who is not shitty be a sadist???)

Yes, that's the concept behind bdsm. If there are respected boundaries and consent, hitting your partner would not be a moral or immoral action on its own. Assuming one is a sadist and the other a masochist, it would just be a pleasurable action for both.

As for the evil guy:

- Smacks them up (yet in a consensual manner, the women want this).
- Does the most evil shit possible to hurt women for sexual pleasure (SADISTIC, consensual)

If these acts are consensual, by default they are not evil.
And that's where you're a little confused imho. Some (I would argue most) actions are not evil or good or neutral because they happen. They are judged as good or evil according to the intent behind them and one's background.

Going by your example, an evil guy wouldn't hit a woman if he knew that she would derive pleasure from it. He'd try to find a way to cause her distress. He'd find and hurt her family. He'd burn her house down. He'd kill her dog.
Same goes for his mother. If his mother wants to be treated like a cum dumpster, treating her so doesn't make him evil because it's something she wants to do.

 

[hakarlman]

First of all, it's gonna be a little hard to explain some things because my english is lacking.

I think lust shouldn't be opposite of (or positioned anywhere in relation to) love. You can love someone and have the desire to fuck them constantly and do all kinds of stuff to them. It's all a matter of consent and respecting the boundaries your partner has set.

Now, for your definitions. I assume the main plot is that the mc somehow comes in control of a brothel, something like wicked rouge.

Good guy:

- Does not entirely (emphasis mine) objectify women, allowing their agency to remain intact, but still embrace a degree of fun sexiness.
A good guy wouldn't objectify women at all.

- Does not verbally abuse or humiliate his women, nor do the women do this to the MC.
It doesn't matter what the women do to the mc, a good guy wouldn't verbally abuse women. Then there's another issue. A good guy wouldn't consider women to be his. If he had a brothel, the women at worst would be his employees and they would have the independence to leave.

- (Can a person who is not shitty be a sadist???)

Yes, that's the concept behind bdsm. If there are respected boundaries and consent, hitting your partner would not be a moral or immoral action on its own. Assuming one is a sadist and the other a masochist, it would just be a pleasurable action for both.

As for the evil guy:

- Smacks them up (yet in a consensual manner, the women want this).
- Does the most evil shit possible to hurt women for sexual pleasure (SADISTIC, consensual)

If these acts are consensual, by default they are not evil.
And that's where you're a little confused imho. Some (I would argue most) actions are not evil or good or neutral because they happen. They are judged as good or evil according to the intent behind them and one's background.

Going by your example, an evil guy wouldn't hit a woman if he knew that she would derive pleasure from it. He'd try to find a way to cause her distress. He'd find and hurt her family. He'd burn her house down. He'd kill her dog.
Same goes for his mother. If his mother wants to be treated like a cum dumpster, treating her so doesn't make him evil because it's something she wants to do.

Your response is what I was looking for. Having read it word for word, it lead me down a different path. I closed the poll as a result since it was mostly flawed. If you read my original post, I heavily edited it.

The game I'm making will adhere to many of your ideas, of which many coincide with mine, but with some adjustments.

Since the game allows the player to change or join different societies, what is degenerate will differ between one group and another.

So, when your MC finds the group that adheres to your ideals, your actions will not be seen as degenerate, but if an opposing faction thinks what you're doing is immoral, they will perceive you as evil, but by your logic you're not evil, you're good. This clash will lead to interesting conflict.

I also changed my ideas based on other responses in the thread.

 

[slider]

I like this new turn, not everybody has the ability to listen to criticism, reflect and adapt.

On a related note, I often feel like the archetypal love/lust duality in games feels forced and is not constructive at all. When these stats com from taking mutually exclusive choices that lead to opposite paths, they soon become meaningless numbers. You are either in on path or the other.

In some games you can carefully mix up these points in order to unlock more scenes, which is better than the former, but I still think it's still not optimal. I'm more interested in organic choices and establishing relationship dynamics that are not black or white.

If stats is the way you want to go, I think adding more variables to love and lust can make it much more interesting and less binary. Just as an example, you could have the following:

- Love: how much the girl holds you dear and wants to share her life with you.
- Lust: how much libido she has and sexually open she is (towards everybody if she is not faithful).
- Respect: how faithful and honest she is towards you (still possible to have an agreement of sharing her, etc).
- Authority: how obedient she is to you (or vice-versa).
- Morality: how much she values ethics and justice.