Can you give me some character feedback

[fauxplayer]

That is some EXCELLENT description. So good, I'm gonna pretend i came up with it myself

I did have a bit of a break and looked at the 2nd girl again, and i can see why she looks a bit older. The gray-ish hair and slightly lower square-ish jaw. I'll probably mess around with character creation more until I get the story settled to some degree. Thanks man!

I'm glad I could help! This was a fun exercise, and I wish more game developers were as proactive as you are before releasing a game. Just to be clear, IMO the most important feedback I cam give you is to practice rendering the expressions you think will be a part of the story you want to tell. My initial impression of Girl #2 was "meh" but YOU can tell a story where that initial reaction is fine because as the story progresses, it gets less "meh" and more "hmmm, what do we have here...?" as we get to know the character. @darthseduction has great points about developing and internalizing a character's main traits that are more helpful than anything I can provide, so do this: every single render should be filtered through the context of a fully developed character. If you have an authentic character in your mind as you tell your story, your renders should reflect that, regardless of anyone's initial feedback on these.

 

[Jimbles]

To be honest, honey select seems to be the easiest package of freedom of face design plus clothes plus easy posing. Daz looks better but has very little in terms of make your own character with sliders...and everything seems very "buy our models" oriented.

I also have Klub 17 and while I got that looking pretty good too, I have to make character poses seperately from the combined/lighting/environment step and that makes it insanely harder for having 2 characters interact. Might give that a shot again though...

I've never tried using Honey Select and I really wasn't impressed with Klub 17, but it was a lot more user friendly than Daz. Daz has a sharper learning curve, but the quality of renders that can be pulled off of it, I think, are significantly better.

Most of the characters I see from Honey Select seem half-assed to me, and I think it's because they generally remind me of PlayStation 2 characters. I like realistic renders and I like animated (drawn) characters, but I don't like the in-between that is Honey Select. That's just my personal preference though, so don't let that discourage you.

I'd say Daz has a lot of freedom in character design and posing, but it really does require the right assets/mods. Also, the more assets and stuff that you have the easier it is to create what you're looking for. However, it's definitely not the easiest program to learn, getting the lighting perfect is generally a pain in the ass, and if your computer isn't fast enough, posing and especially rendering take forever. However, Photoshop is useful for fixing a lot of lighting and other problems, but that's another program you have to learn that isn't exactly intuitive either. It does make a difference though. For example, I'm attaching a Victoria 7 and Victoria 8 that I rendered side by side. The outside characters are the original renders and the middle two only had a few touch-ups in photoshop, but it makes a world of difference.

 

[warmax42]

I think my biggest problem with the middle girl isn't even her look. She'd not wholly unattractive. Her head looks tiny with comparison to her body. I can't tell if you've Morphed it to make it smaller or if it's an illusion cause by your choice of hair for her. As a result she simply looks weird. I'd love to see what you could do with a similar but not so wide hairstyle. With her character it makes sense that she'd have something plain and straight, not what's going on here looks very unnatural.

I do like the last girl more in these new pics, the only caution I have is that their eyes seem weird to me. The eyes are usually the biggest problem designers seem to have with honey select, they either get too Asian and look like they're swollen closed, or they look like yours, which kinda look like 2d drawn eyes pasted into a 3d character.

I do think the changes in expression were a nice thing, though I was able to see their character through the way you posed and dressed them, it is a good idea to have expressions used to fit the model.

Again, I don't want to discourage you from continuing to create. If you're comfortable with what you've made, go for it, it's your project. But if you have the time to fine tune your art and make it something very approachable, I'd suggest you do, as it will only help your game of the art is superb.

I know what you mean, and I think this is the same most people will say about HS - there's some innate character design look that is hard to get away from. I am actually happy with the way the models turned out, but it's good to get another opinion - that's why I'm here.

I hadn't tweaked head size at all, i think its just the flat/straight hair style i picked. The eyes.. well I don't know how much more I can do about that. HS does give you pretty good control so at least I got away from the Asian look. I'll continue working on it. Here's the same character with some minor changes, more unique lighting and a new hairstyle with more volume:

I've never tried using Honey Select and I really wasn't impressed with Klub 17, but it was a lot more user friendly than Daz. Daz has a sharper learning curve, but the quality of renders that can be pulled off of it, I think, are significantly better.

Most of the characters I see from Honey Select seem half-assed to me, and I think it's because they generally remind me of PlayStation 2 characters. I like realistic renders and I like animated (drawn) characters, but I don't like the in-between that is Honey Select. That's just my personal preference though, so don't let that discourage you.

I'd say Daz has a lot of freedom in character design and posing, but it really does require the right assets/mods. Also, the more assets and stuff that you have the easier it is to create what you're looking for. However, it's definitely not the easiest program to learn, getting the lighting perfect is generally a pain in the ass, and if your computer isn't fast enough, posing and especially rendering take forever. However, Photoshop is useful for fixing a lot of lighting and other problems, but that's another program you have to learn that isn't exactly intuitive either. It does make a difference though. For example, I'm attaching a Victoria 7 and Victoria 8 that I rendered side by side. The outside characters are the original renders and the middle two only had a few touch-ups in photoshop, but it makes a world of difference.

As far as character posing, I think HS does just as well imho. All the bones are there, though I haven't seen the face bones in Daz, so I probably shouldn't really compare. But HS does give me plenty of bones to work with.

For character design - ok, maybe you know more - see, it's my understanding that Daz is less about designing a character's face to make it look the way you want, and more about downloading a character from their store and maybe slightly tweaking it, but not being able to do anything like a full overhaul. Is that the case? Is there an option to modify the face of some base model to your desire?

Yes, the other reason is the assets. I know Daz has a lot, but they're being a paywall. And also that's the other thing - HS also gives me options to have clothes be half-off, which certainly could add to a scene/story. Things like lifting skirts or lifting/opening shirts are just 1 button click away. So, yea, that and the wide variety of assets available just straight out of the box is just so attractive to an aspiring game creator like myself.

 

[Jimbles]

I know what you mean, and I think this is the same most people will say about HS - there's some innate character design look that is hard to get away from. I am actually happy with the way the models turned out, but it's good to get another opinion - that's why I'm here.

I hadn't tweaked head size at all, i think its just the flat/straight hair style i picked. The eyes.. well I don't know how much more I can do about that. HS does give you pretty good control so at least I got away from the Asian look. I'll continue working on it. Here's the same character with some minor changes, more unique lighting and a new hairstyle with more volume:

View attachment 62887

Even though I'm not a huge HS fan, I did like that render. It looks nice.

For character design - ok, maybe you know more - see, it's my understanding that Daz is less about designing a character's face to make it look the way you want, and more about downloading a character from their store and maybe slightly tweaking it, but not being able to do anything like a full overhaul. Is that the case? Is there an option to modify the face of some base model to your desire?

Yes and no. For starters, it's all about assets (it's no secret Daz is in it for the money). At the basic of basic, yes, all you can do is download characters, mix and match features, and tweak a little bit. I'd say that's what most people, especially new creators, do and part of the reason it seems like you always see the same characters in every game. However, there are quite a few morphing assets that you can get that allow for a broad range of modification.
For example:

Yes, the other reason is the assets. I know Daz has a lot, but they're being a paywall. And also that's the other thing - HS also gives me options to have clothes be half-off, which certainly could add to a scene/story. Things like lifting skirts or lifting/opening shirts are just 1 button click away. So, yea, that and the wide variety of assets available just straight out of the box is just so attractive to an aspiring game creator like myself.

The cost and need of all the assets is one of my biggest gripes with Daz, and one of the main reasons I still use G3 characters instead of G8, I have a lot more assets for G3. However, as far as clothing control and everything else, that is typically asset specific (depends on how much work the designer wanted to put into it) and a lot of assets have quite a bit of morphing freedom(example below). Also, you're not limited to Daz's website for assets, many independent artists sell (and sometimes give away) assets on sites such as renderocity.



I'm not trying to convince you to use Daz or anything. Use what you're comfortable with and enjoy. You're obviously capable of doing a good job with HS, I'm just explaining why I personally made the switch to Daz.

 

[warmax42]

Even though I'm not a huge HS fan, I did like that render. It looks nice.

Thanks, obviously in any software, lighting plays a big role, and it takes practice to get it done right. I think I got slightly lucky in getting a good setup there.

Yes and no. For starters, it's all about assets (it's no secret Daz is in it for the money). At the basic of basic, yes, all you can do is download characters, mix and match features, and tweak a little bit. I'd say that's what most people, especially new creators, do and part of the reason it seems like you always see the same characters in every game. However, there are quite a few morphing assets that you can get that allow for a broad range of modification.
For example:
View attachment 62974



The cost and need of all the assets is one of my biggest gripes with Daz, and one of the main reasons I still use G3 characters instead of G8, I have a lot more assets for G3. However, as far as clothing control and everything else, that is typically asset specific (depends on how much work the designer wanted to put into it) and a lot of assets have quite a bit of morphing freedom(example below). Also, you're not limited to Daz's website for assets, many independent artists sell (and sometimes give away) assets on sites such as renderocity.

View attachment 62976

I'm not trying to convince you to use Daz or anything. Use what you're comfortable with and enjoy. You're obviously capable of doing a good job with HS, I'm just explaining why I personally made the switch to Daz.

Yeah, that makes sense. I already had that idea, only I didn't realize you also can buy head morphing sliders.

To be honest, I DO want to learn Daz, and no matter what, HS characters won't look as good. If I put in the same effort for Daz, it look better, no doubt. I have some starting funds (I have a regular job, as a software dev actually), and the PC power for Daz - but I'm not entirely sold on spending $30-$50 for assets that I would use once or twice.

Anyway, yea, I'll have to dwell on it some more - either way though I appreciate the info and help in trying to figure out what to do

 

[warmax42]

I've been messing around with something new, so here's some new screens

I did have to re-create the girls, and I don't have the third yet, but in some ways that's a good thing, I think

 

[DarthSeduction]

I've been messing around with something new, so here's some new screens

I did have to re-create the girls, and I don't have the third yet, but in some ways that's a good thing, I think

View attachment 63512 View attachment 63513

The eyes look a little less pasted on. Keep at it.