Daz Collisions

NinjaWings

Newbie
Feb 20, 2019
17
1
Hey guys, I was wondering how are people using DAZ characters and having collisions?

an example would be this scene although that might not be Daz I have seen the same be done in Daz.


How do you make it (in DAZ) so that one mesh doesn't just go through the other mesh and instead collides with it?
 

Saki_Sliz

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2018
1,403
1,011
I think that maybe a blender animation (just based on the character and familiar mesh of the genitals), but I think both daz and blender use the same tricks. I can't think of any tutorials I have seen on this, so instead I will throw words at you and see what you are familiar with and what you would like to be further explained. The issue is that I use blender for everything and daz for character prototyping.

There are 4 things that could be happening, you only need 1 or 2 of them to fake the effect, but there isn't really true collision.
~ 1 morph or shape key can be used to open and close the orifice. Often in blender animation, a bone is scaled to open the orifice, where it actually is using its scale as a driving parameter to control other bones and shape keys to allow for very complex morphs and shapes. If you use this by itself, you basically have to hand animate the opening and closing to match the size of the object going in/out.
~ 2 Pull or push morph/shape-keys. To add another dimension of complexity to the animation, you can have these other shapes that deform the orifice to simulating something being pushed in or pulled out. Many daz genitals have these morphs ready, or there are many morph sets you can by for genitals that not only include different openings for different size objects, but also have these push pull morphs aswell that you can mix in. again at this point you would have to hand animate this effect in. and for the most part hand animation is the only way to add this effect unless you want to do some coding and math that does a bit of integration.
~ 3 Simulation. I don't know what daz does since I only use it for character prototyping, but you can have a very simple physics animation that does 1 of 2 things. 1 you can have a very basic collition check to see how large the object going in is, this can control how to open the orifice. In blender I just do tricks with rigid body and hinges to do this, but the quality is never as good as just doing it by hand. 2 In blender I know you can do a lower resolution mesh deform with a soft body simulation, this will not be very detailed or accurate, but it can add effects like volume preservation and add effects beyond what the 2 types of morphs can do, but you will still have to use the morphs to clean things up. I can get into further details on how to do this, but only with blender, I don't know if this is something daz can do or if there is a plug in or something for this.
~ Shrinkwrapping. again I am more familiar with blender than daz. Shrinkwrap can be a last bit of detail to make the private hug the inserted object, but it is very simple and requires you to use it with care, but everyone has a different philosophy on how to properly use it.
 

Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Doing that animation with DAZ would be a nightmare, if not impossible :eek:

Daz doesn't have a collision system, so you have to be the one to move every part of the body, to "recreate" the effect of the collision, to morph the legs so that they look like they're touching, etc, etc.

This animation must be made with some program that has a collision system and real physics (with Daz you only have Dforce for hair or clothes, and even so I doubt that you can achieve that result without having to make constant retouches to every few frames).

Daz is not a "friend" of animations, which doesn't mean you can't make good animations with it, but not like the ones you see in the video.
 

NinjaWings

Newbie
Feb 20, 2019
17
1
@Saki_Sliz

Thank you so much for answering my question in that way! We really need more people like you, who are able to patiently explain with a good attitude a complex subject.
Earlier I spent a few hours attempting to find the answer on my own, your reply and the alternate methods you posted however have acted like as a search beacon that enables me to have the correct terminology to reach further heights in my journey into 3D Art.
This really makes a huge difference to me, thank you.


~PS have an internet cookie and internet coffee it's on me ;) Happy New Years!
 

Saki_Sliz

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2018
1,403
1,011
Munch munch munch!!!:coffee:
Happy new years to you as well.
Glad I could give you some seeds of information to start with. The hardest thing with learning anything is figuring out the keywords XD. I won't be home to my main computer for another week, but if I could I would set up a basic demo to show you how it could be done. At least you found this web site, its one of the best for answering nsfw stuff :D

mgomez0077 Alright good to know! I know people don't talk the best about daz and animation but since I don't try to use daz in that fasion I haven't wanted to say anything.
 

Rich

Old Fart
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Game Developer
Jun 25, 2017
2,566
7,384
Doing that animation with DAZ would be a nightmare, if not impossible :eek:
Nightmare, yes - impossible no. You can simulate the effects of collisions indenting things by using animated dFormers. (Hard, but doable.) Similarly, things like the couch moving could be done with a dFormer or a morph. In theory, you could do it with dForce by using negative gravity (the surface of the couch tries to move upward toward the figure), but the odds that you can get it to loop cleanly are poor.

Daz is not a "friend" of animations.
No question of that! LOL I completely agree with you that this animation was probably NOT done with Daz. Just pointing out that it's not impossible, even if it would be a real PITA...
 

rev2020

Active Member
Oct 16, 2019
825
2,919
this animation was probably NOT done with Daz.
what program do you think this was made in?
iClone?

iClone supports Daz 3D models btw

i have not tried it myself.
 

Saki_Sliz

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2018
1,403
1,011
Blender or Maya would be the two programs I would think of as animating programs that could have been used. Blender for free and hobbiest users, and maya for those who can afford it and have proffessional 3D experience.
 

Rich

Old Fart
Modder
Donor
Respected User
Game Developer
Jun 25, 2017
2,566
7,384
what program do you think this was made in?
Right now, my bet would be against iClone - I'm playing with it, and while it might be capable of that, I somewhat doubt it. If I was to guess, I'd guess something like Maya, as Saki_Sliz indicated - it's a pretty sophisticated animation, and implies (at least to me) some pretty serious software.
 

recreation

pure evil!
Respected User
Game Developer
Jun 10, 2018
6,327
22,777
Most sfm creators who are making animations like that switched to maya, some to blender. EXGA uses blender iirc.

You guys totally seem to forget that there is something like mesh smoothing with colision detection in Daz. Yes it's by no means perfect, but it's very usable for some animations ;)
 

Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Nightmare, yes - impossible no. You can simulate the effects of collisions indenting things by using animated dFormers. (Hard, but doable.) Similarly, things like the couch moving could be done with a dFormer or a morph. In theory, you could do it with dForce by using negative gravity (the surface of the couch tries to move upward toward the figure), but the odds that you can get it to loop cleanly are poor.
Sure, maybe not impossible, but with DAZ it would require a lot of time to give that same result; what I mean is that it is not worth it, it is almost better, if you want to do that, to learn how to use other programs like Maya, Blender, etc...

Here is an example of DFormer applied to the bed:


I'm sure that with time and patience you can achieve something similar with DAZ, but you must bear in mind that it will all be done manually, not with an "intelligent" system of physics where you can specify the rigidity or flexibility of a "body" and the program will take care of calculating the deformations on impact with another body.

Most sfm creators who are making animations like that switched to maya, some to blender. EXGA uses blender iirc.

You guys totally seem to forget that there is something like mesh smoothing with colision detection in Daz. Yes it's by no means perfect, but it's very usable for some animations ;)
Do you mean the same parameters as the dresses (or other accessories)? :unsure:
I know it applies to the characters' bodies too... but, are you telling me this will make a body recoil if something hits it?
 

recreation

pure evil!
Respected User
Game Developer
Jun 10, 2018
6,327
22,777
Do you mean the same parameters as the dresses (or other accessories)? :unsure:
I know it applies to the characters' bodies too... but, are you telling me this will make a body recoil if something hits it?
Yes, the same thing, it works... to a degree, it's easily fucked up like dforce, but with a little bit fiddling it can work wonders. I used it for some breast collision and kissing scenes (lips colision).
 

Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Yes, the same thing, it works... to a degree, it's easily fucked up like dforce, but with a little bit fiddling it can work wonders. I used it for some breast collision and kissing scenes (lips colision).
Uhmm, seems very interesting... do you have any examples for me to look at? Thank you!
 

Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Thanks!

Yes... pretty unstable, I guess like with dresses, and also in animations that's recalculated at every frame and the result can be quite different.

I think it's better to use other resources, like specific morphs, body dformers, or the recent " " utility... although it would be wonderful to be able to automate this, lol


BTW, your model looks a little purple, I think she's gone too far with the UV rays :ROFLMAO:;)
 

recreation

pure evil!
Respected User
Game Developer
Jun 10, 2018
6,327
22,777
Thanks!

Yes... pretty unstable, I guess like with dresses, and also in animations that's recalculated at every frame and the result can be quite different.

I think it's better to use other resources, like specific morphs, body dformers, or the recent " " utility... although it would be wonderful to be able to automate this, lol


BTW, your model looks a little purple, I think she's gone too far with the UV rays :ROFLMAO:;)
Yes it's a bit tricky, I tried to use it in several animations, but only managed to get it working in one so far.

That's her normal color you racist! She also has penis hair xD
 

Saki_Sliz

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2018
1,403
1,011
Even with blender, there is no one click solution. one may need to further subdivide the default mesh to get clean collision or other tricks to try and smooth things.
That's her normal color you racist! She also has penis hair xD
What is she, I see something on her shoulder and I immediately think Twi'lek
 
  • Like
Reactions: recreation

Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Exactly, these are the "automated" physics systems I was referring to... DAZ doesn't have them, yet :p

Although in the last update they have improved a lot regarding animations, with the inclusion by default of KeyMate and GraphMate, and adding the IK-Chains... so maybe in future versions we will see more advances destined to be able to make better animations :)