Combat Systems in H-Games

[Jinnai]

Hello there,

I know that combat systems are a sore topic for some people, since they absolutely hate them. That being said, I'd like to know if you got any examples of combat systems that you actually really enjoyed in a H Game, or at least stood out in some kind of fashion.

I also take examples for combat systems that were really bad in your opinion. I take literally any kind of feedback, since it's a topic that I'm thinking about a lot lately.

 

[anne O'nymous]

A pleasing one, Sakura Dungeon. Probably a little too limited, but simple and efficient. And also visually good, by opposition to Damsels and Dragons that have a really similar system but, well... less pleasant visually speaking.

One that I really dislike is the default system for RPG Maker. Too much steps for something that should stay as simple as possible. The only good point (when used) is the possibility to automatically perform the same action than during the previous turn.


For me, the main key is the simplicity of the system ; it should be pleasant and never be a constraint.

Be as visual as possible, the player will remember more easily an icon than the order of the names in a list. Especially if you will release your game by updates. The visual of the icons will be remembered faster and easier than the order of the names.

And do not go further than one level of nesting ; no nesting being still way better. Keep in mind that if it's really a well done system, the player will already past some time thinking about the best action to do right now. Do not add to this more than one/two seconds for him to activate the said action.

And finally do not abuse of combat animations. There's nothing more annoying during a combat, than passing more times looking at the same animations than effectively playing.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

I think it is all about being in the right mind set, expecting or wanting combat. The issue is that I don't think I have ever found a combat system that makes me want combat, since in most adult games this is just fluff content, or atleast it feels that way as a player. But I know I have no attention span so maybe others would enjoy such systems.

However, I have tried to work out 2 prototypes to try to solve the issue, but that was like 2 or more years ago before I decided that point and click was the ultimate form of adult gaming and the solution I believed to be for combat was narrative combat. Meaning, it is not about winning and continuing the game, but to make the combat have meaning, it could have a story or contribute to the story.

Specifically, my first prototype (just testing with early text based since I was too lazy to do art) focused on how some actions impacted the player, such as removing clothes, which embarrassed them, which changed how they fought, due to being naked. Lots of other games do this two, and some games are even simpler, where instead of being able to take different actions and having different possible outcomes, sometimes the combat just progresses a storyline or side comic (through earning points though the fight or level). Trying to unlock more is the only reason I find I want to fight in most games, while adult games tend not to have a reason to develop your character stats since they aren't super long term rpgs.

The second prototype was just the next generation of the first, I was playing around with 2.5D graphics and wanted to do real-time combat (think skyrim). It followed most of the key ideas, but with the added idea of being as visual as possible (as anne O'nymous suggested), it did this by slowing down time, zooming in, and allowing a close up of attacks/animation that had a lewd focus, ie jiggle effects, stripping effects. I gave this up since it was a lot of freaking work to make all the art content (and at the time I wasn't that confident with my art). I could dig up the old code if need be.

But other than that, point and click and maybe, simple battles that segregate different zones of the world is what I would tolerate now, other than that I avoid most combat due to my attention span being that of a dead ant.

 

[shark_inna_hat]

There where some combat systems I enjoyed at least a bit, some of them even in rpgmaker games, but I can remember one that was good at mixing adult content into the fights. Combat is either a detached mini-game (you go around doing h-games-stuff at night and fight orcs and wolfs at day), or fights have 'sexual attacks' where you leer at an oponent until they give up- in that case these work basically as spells with funny names.
It's hard to do right even without the H element. I for one hate when the fights are too easy - if you can win any fight by just spamming the best attack (or just the only attack option) than it's not a challenge, it's a waste of time.

 

[AmazonessKing]

First, people that say they hate combat in games should watch movies, video games are clearly not for them.
As for examples, my god, let me try to sum it:

I love platformers, and certainly, the ones that stand out for me the most are Eroico and Forest of the Blue Skin.

• Eroico: A basic platformer that is really nice to play as. But it does have a fatal flaw, you get the sex scene by getting damages, which is annoying as fuck. Of course, by actually completing levels, you do permanently unlock the gallery of monsters anyway, but still.
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• FoBS: It's an honest improvement from Eroico, as in is open world, more like a metroidvania, where even if you do get sex scenes by being damaged, you need to defeat the enemies in a clever way to capture them, and by doing so you permanently unlock their sex scene at your home without having to take damage from them in the overworld.
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  .

I really like the later, to the point I'm making a game inspired by it. Basically, and this is very important: SEX SHOULD BE A REWARD, NOT A PUNISHMENT. So don't make it so sex is something you get by having to lose on purpose. In the game I'm developing, you get sex if you are smart enough to know how to get enemies weaknesses, and even then, it is up to you if you want to engage in sex or not, doing it have some rewards, like refilling your health, but it is not mandatory if you don't want to for whatever reason, and you only need to do it with each enemy only once to get the biggest benefit and an ability.

And honorific mention: What if Adventure Time was a 3D Anime, before the author decided to censor his own game out of very stupid reasons. The combat, I would say is something that dreams are made of. Imagine kingdom hearts, and that's it. Is very good, even if it needs some fleshing.

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.
And here the latest, censored version.

The thing is, however, that the combat had nothing to do with the sex, and sex was rather a reward if you do things right. And that's completely ok. I think sex games do have 2 phases, to say it in a way: The game part, and the sex part. The game part have you playing the game, and the sex part is the reward for playing it.

I have not even once have seen these 2 phases combined working well, because as you enjoy the sex scene, you wouldn't probably want to do anything else, and as you play, a sex scene would only get in the way.

To make it simple: Think of it as a good game first, something you enjoy to play not only for the sex you will get, but something you would enjoy playing without it, and then sex would just be the cherry on top of your game. I think lewd mods of normal games like Darkest Dungeon do this well. You only have added lewd elements, but without getting too far from the core gameplay, and you have a game you can enjoy with some eye candy:

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[Jinnai]

Thank you everyone so much for your input, this really helped me out with my own game development.
And yes, I am also a true believer of the philosophy that it's not engaging game design, if you force the player to lose the game on purpose to get all the sexual content.

I also want to distinctively separate sex and combat. At least in most cases. Something like seducing an enemy during a fight simply doesn't fit the narrative, as odd as it may sound. That's why I agree heavily with AmazonessKing here, about the sex part and the gameplay part being two very different things.

I'll also check out all of your examples to get a good grasp for some different combat systems. Again, thank you all very much.

 

[Droid Productions]

I ended up getting inspiration from an old iPhone game,

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(an absolutely gorgeous game, that's sadly been surplanted by a far inferior F2P monstrosity). Combat's turn-based, with each player taking turns to make poker-hands to attack the opponent.



Each attack has a gem attached to it; gems usually do damage; some also add effects (like poison, ice, lightning damage, etc). The better the gem, the more damage and effects it does, but it also means it needs a higher poker-hand to activate it. A gem tagged to the Flush line, for example, can be mounted in the socket for Flush or above (so you could put a Flush gem into a Four of a Kind slot, but it likely wouldn't be as powerful as a pure Four of a Kind gem. In addition to that you can gain Companions, who can help you out. Their Magic bar increases when your deal or receive damage; some are healers, others can buff or help you in other ways, and some people... well, some people just like watching the world burn.

Speaking of which, here's Katie explaining a little about the Magic system

 

[pasunna]

It’s not the type for me
It’s more about balanced
Even if the basic rpgm mechanisms is fun
If I enjoyed the fight they set
I play fallen makina it use basic
But the game flow is not hard and not weak
So I’m not cheat even if they give level cheat npc in the first floor
Minions Enemy can avoidable that a plus
Main point is h gamer don’t like grinding and fighting with repeat minion is not fun

other way is if your figth mechanic is decent and fun
No one with taste will complain

I mean the one that want to read and click
Will never like your combat part anyway
So no point to care about them

about the fight scene I like the sexy heroine to show her sexy fight pose
Don’t need to show vagina and boobs but it the pose it self that powerful and sexy
But the fighting animation will boring in the end even with normal game
So the faster version or skip able is a must

And for me I don’t like those game that hero get fuck during fight
It feel weird and boring that at nowhere she give blow job or vagina to them
But in the other hand special status is interesting
Slave sword 2 implement the mechanic like bind and land slide etc
With lewd attact from enemy so heroine need to recover from that status
But... the balance is worst need to grind so much
The first game is more balance but the second is more creativ

 

[zorozoro]

Used to really enjoy platformers more like Fairy Fighting/Wolf's Dungeon, bc of that kinda tactile responsiveness, then I think after Malise and the Machine came out I got really into RPGMaker based ones, I think the appeal there is that lots of different states can happen to the character and keep escalating, it's kinda boring if it's the same animation/picture every time you get grabbed.

Mission Mermaiden is a really good one.

 

[Darina A.513]

you may try my game.
i worked for combat a lot.

 

[Kinderalpha]

Some awesome points being made here. I don't think much else needs to be said; don't use combat as fluff, don't use combat to penalize the player, don't only use bad ends to convey eroticism.

I'll say this till I die. Your game mechanics should compliment your narrative, or your narrative should compliment your game mechanics. It's a correlative relationship. If your narrative doesn't correlate with fighting, don't add it.

I'm working on designing something right now. There's witch craft in this game, so naturally it's easy to resolve in the design decisions that witch craft will be used to resolve conflicts. Which translates into witch craft combat of some sort. That sounds fun in theory, but does it fit the narrative and atmosphere of the game? Well the game is primarily going to be a detective/exploration game so the answer is no. If combat isn't the primary task/goal of the story, then what happens is it will be this one off chore/mini game that just feels tacky and out of place.

"How do I know if combat fits my narrative?" This is super simple. If you answer no to any of these questions, it doesn't fit.

• Does my game make use of equipment, outside of combat?
• Does my game make use of attributes outside of combat (health, mana, etc)?
• Does my game make use of items, weapons, or perks outside of combat?
• Does my game make use of inventory outside of combat?
• Does my game make use of leveling, experience, or combat progression outside of leveing?

The theme is, if you're introducing these aforementioned features exclusively to fit combat into your game. You're forcing it. Another question to ask is.

• What design goal do I set out to achieve by adding combat.
• How does combat contribute to the narrative or character stories.
• What conflict or challenge needs to be resolved by a combat system.
• Why is a combat system required to resolve this conflict outside of other methods.

These questions aim to help you determine what you're trying to accomplish or get out of a combat system in your game. For example, Love of Magic from a design perspective not only answered those questions but set out to make combat a fundamental part of the game and does It very well. For a bad example, think of just about every RPG maker game.

I could go more into detail about the challenges and narrative implications of different types of combat systems (tactical, turn based, action, etc) but I think that's outside the scope of this topic. Hope this helps!