Others Daz Comic page layout question

[GrayTShirt]

So, I'm working on a little side project that'll be in a comic/graphic novel format using Daz renders.
I've seen some comic page paneling, and I've seen whole images per page. Then there's screen vs. page orientation, etc.
I know it all comes down to dev preference, but is there an actual viewer/reader preference?
Thank you.
-GTS

 

[Saki_Sliz]

since no one has commented yet, I'll give my unnecessary 2 cents

As you probably already know, the format can depend 1 on limitations and 2 on what you want to prioritize.

computers tend to be the most flexible, especially if the content comes from a game where you can run custom code. If this was for mobile, you have to deal with a vertical screen limitation, and maybe design the comic for infinite scrolling like with webtoon comics. Computers with a horizontal screen is one such limitation, where a page orientation may not be best.

you say it comes down to dev preference, but I disagree. not just because its an escape goat excuse, but if it is down to preference, then preference can be arbitrary, and arbitrary design is shit! If you want to find a good or best comic layout or plan of action, you don't think in 'preferences' you think in terms of 'priorities.'

A good example is the layout of comic pages. if made by a professional, everything is placed with purpose, by knowing how the viewers eyes will subconsciously move across the page. Even art centuries ago did this, where invisible lines would guide the views focus to the key subject of a painting, even if the subject wasn't in the center of the painting.

I bring this up because to figure out what to prioritize, I think the 12 principle of animations are a good default to start with before doing anything more complex. the main one that is most applicable is #4 staging, the most complex rule, or in video/photography you would considered this 'composition'. Simply put, you figure out your priorities based on controlling what the viewers experience, much like rhetorical theory.

you can control what the viewer is noticing by keeping in mind that the viewer can only focus on 1 thing at a time. what is great about comics is that you can communicate a lot of things at once, unlike the slow pacing of a VN. The issue is to control the flow of information and not overload the viewer, especially if you focus on VN like experience and then switch to comic experience.

you need to prioritize what kind of information should and should be given all at once. for example I would avoid comic layouts since I like to give more of a TV show like experience when there is something to focus on, ie two characters talking to each other. But if there is a lot going on, or I want to say a lot is going on without going into too much detail (ie a quick fight or sex scene), I can use a comic as a snap shot reel.

But other than that, the other main use I have for comic layouts is for simply giving context, lots of insignificant panels with a main center panel. think of comics strips, where they have set up panels, and a final punchline panel. You want the punchline panel to have kick to it, you don't want the viewers to get caught up focusing on the set up contextual panels too much, but you also don't want the viewers to skip right to the punchline without reading the set up first. for this reason I often like having the set up be the biggest and near the top right (following normal wester reading order left to right, top to bottom), the punchline panel near the bottom right, second biggest, and any contextual panels (even if it's just a small side joke of a character sneezing because their name was called) tend to be on the opposite diagonal (top right, bottom left), and I only allow small contextual comics in the dead center when I want to indicate a break between the smooth read between the set up and punchline panels, ie a pause it time as a character hesitates, a flashback or jump to another location and back, anything that makes the viewer pause for a bit rather than just smoothly reading through left to right top to bottom...

but I don't have any good examples of this practice I can share yet. so maybe I just sound like I'm rambling! but other than over thinking, I just like to add text balloons with throw away sound effect or dialog to indicate the world is alive, such as character trying to talk when in the middle of a crowd... or just sex sounds

Edit: the other example I can think of where I want to use comics is sort of hinted at when I mentioned fight scenes, but for sex. I'll use a comic like format if a character is experiencing complex emotional experiences (ie various facial expressions) in a short amount of time. This is because I sees some amazing animations out there, but because of being 3D and fast, its hard to catch all the little nuances, so in art form I think having a comic works best because you can fake a short time duration by using a comic format so that viewers aren't spending too much time on each image (thus less tedious of an experience than say something like a line by line story in a VN).

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I tried comic style once and i think this is actually fun, doing away with choice crap and just concentrating on the actual story they way i want to tell it.

Now, where i struggled was first image size. Some scenes can be smaller than others.
The other thing is dialog bubbles. I really wish i found something like stacked bubbles so you have QA bubbles.
I am using Net.Paint. Works fine. There is even a dialog bubble addon for it. Though i didn't like it.

Though i still am very conflicted if Renpy Kinetic is better or just simply a comic strip. Renpy Kinetic seems kind of ok, though a lot of people complain because no choice.

I looked at some comic designs but they didn't really click with me. Though they were good.

Anyway, comic in itself seems easier when you want to tell a story and strip nuances out and concentrate on just the action itself.

 

[79flavors]

Not my area of expertise, but from what I can see of comic book panelling - the size and layout of the panels are dictated by the action.

The bigger a panel is... the more important the action in that frame is.
A lot of small panels, side by side might indicate a fast paced series of actions/events.

But equally, sometimes it's just about being practical. A character pictured in the shower might take up the full height of the page, but might only take up a quarter or third of the page width.

A4 portrait seems most common, with 2 or 3 panels per page being most common. And when it's 4+, is likely to be 1+3 or 3+1 rather than 2x2. A4 landscape seems more focused on 1 panel per page, with multiple smaller panels used sparingly.

An experienced comic artist might abandon the idea of a uniform layout and use a complete jumble of different shapes and sizes... but I don't think that's where you're at.

I'd suggest downloading a few of the most "popular" comics here on F95.
Look for patterns in layout and then assume they're doing well, because they're doing it right.

The other consideration is how people's eyes move over the page. For comics, that's "F" styling. Start top left and read right, then scan down and read right again. Rinse and repeat until you reach the bottom right of the page. That's true for both the panels and the speech/thought/action bubbles within the panel. If you have two characters talking to each other, have the speech bubbles appear like a zip within the panel, interlocking and zigzag'ing down the panel (still technically "F" styling).

Personally, I have no problem with a kinetic novel in RenPy, since it makes handling the dialogue much easier. But I can imagine you'd need a thick skin to deal with the "but there's no choices" calls from the people who don't understand sometimes a person just wants to tell a story.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

Personally, I have no problem with a kinetic novel in RenPy, since it makes handling the dialogue much easier. But I can imagine you'd need a thick skin to deal with the "but there's no choices" calls from the people who don't understand sometimes a person just wants to tell a story.

I think Kinetic is a nice form to tell a story. Most games aren't really super to replay them anyway.
Though you can say that Kinetic games are slideshows on rails.
I think comic format is the way to go if you don't want to add anything else like sound or code. Though i am not a huge fan of comics myself.

Choice is pretty overblow imo. None of the games really give you a choice in the sense that you change the outcome. The game will push you for a certain outcome.
I recently played Soma (real game) and i liked the approach of choice. It wasn't made visible that you do a choice but it made you think why am i doing this right now.
The outcome itself was fixed but it made you question about what makes you a human.
And i am dismayed with choices that are value based. You are more focused on collecting points than the story itself imo.

In a sense a comic may be more honest barebone in what it delivers. You get a story with ending. Or open ending.