Comments on Crowd Sourcing

[Dankwank]

This might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think crowd sourcing is an effective way to finance the production of a game. I'm gonna struggle to clarify all my thoughts on this subject so please bare with me. One issue I have with crowd sourced games is that there is no incentive to actually finish the game in a timely manner. There's plenty of games out on the net that have been in development for upwards of 2 years, all while being crowd sourced by varying sized groups of fans. To me it seems like the dev is just milking them for cash. I'm sure you can all think of plenty of examples.
Secondly I feel like crowd sourcing has empowered more half ass developers than it has actually sincere creatives. Maybe this is an obvious observation, because of course it takes an especially talented person to produce a quality creative project, but whatever. I don't want to support devs who are going to waste my time and my money.
Third I feel like sites like patreon have facilitated slow, and ineffectual, game development under the guise of democratizing the creative process. Personally , I only support devs who demonstrate a clear trajectory for their projects because I want to see it get finished sooner, not because I want to have some impact on the direction of the creative work. No amount of interest polls will ever make me tolerate slow game development. If I have to wait upwards of a year and a half for a game, or pay upwards of 60 dollars for something, then the project isn't worth my interest. AAA rated games cost 60 dollars. Thus i'm not going to fork over my hard earned money for mediocre bs.

With all that being said I'd like to advocate for the following
Dont
1. Support games that have no clear release date.
2. Offer more than 60$ (USD) to any project.

Do
1. Support artists who draw porn. Most do so because they love it, and most can't do so full time, even if they wanted to. We should try to enable them.
2. Support Devs who consistently finish their work. Every Dev who finishes a project, even a lousy one, is worth 100 who never finish one for 2+ years.

 

[MissFortune]

On sites like GoFundMe/etc, I do agree with you. I think forcing possible supporters to support upfront isn't a good look for a dev (Devs with a $4,000 goal, for example, that end up reaching it can take as much time as they want now that they have said money.). That's about all I agree with, everything else is subjective, narrow-sighted, idealistic, or all three.

With Patreon, at least a supporter has the option of biting the bullet and cutting their losses if the dev starts to milk it. People want to support and be a part of something they enjoy, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else says about a developer. They're going to support regardless. Patreons and Crowdfunding alike are funding the development of the project, not the game itself, and in return get benefits for supporting it. Early releases of new versions/updates, exclusive wallpapers/scenes/images/etc., and so forth.

Your 'Don't' and 'Do' segment, though? You completely lose me there. Support artists who draw porn? Why exclude text-based or CG when they are both art themselves in their own mediums? Artists and creatives alike do it because they love it. It's not only a double standard, but kind of a retarded thing to say. It doesn't matter if it's drawn on paper or in Photoshop, created in 3D with Blender or Daz or Honey Select, or written in Twine. It's still art all the same, and just like any other medium, there are some that are better than others. I mean, who are you to say how much someone should support to a project they enjoy, or for that matter, what art is? It's your opinion, and fair enough, but you what they say about them.

Support devs who consistently finish their work? Sure, I guess, but that means leaving any dev just starting out to dry. Or heavily in the red when it comes to purchasing products. Whether that be Daz, or canvas and paint, it's all the same. The reality is that support, new dev or not, is what drives a game forward to its finish. Doesn't even have to be financial, but it comes as an inherent bonus of a game's popularity. If the dev abuses the financial trust supporters put into the product/project and the dev milks/abandons it (except for a select few, apparently.), they'll have a hard time gaining any traction for another if they decide to try again. It's really that simple. You do you, that's fine. But you probably shouldn't be telling others what to do.

 

[desmosome]

You are telling other people to spend money based on your arbitrary criteria. Think about that for a second lol. Never mind the fact that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what patreon is. They are not selling a product for X dollars. They are making a thing, most of which are released free at some point, and people who want to throw them some money can do so.

 

[Dankwank]

Your 'Don't' and 'Do' segment, though? You completely lose me there. Support artists who draw porn? Why exclude text-based or CG when they are both art themselves in their own mediums? Artists and creatives alike do it because they love it. It's not only a double standard, but kind of a retarded thing to say. It doesn't matter if it's drawn on paper or in Photoshop, created in 3D with Blender or Daz or Honey Select, or written in Twine. It's still art all the same, and just like any other medium, there are some that are better than others. I mean, who are you to say how much someone should support to a project they enjoy, or for that matter, what art is? It's your opinion, and fair enough, but you what they say about them.

Support devs who consistently finish their work? Sure, I guess, but that means leaving any dev just starting out to dry. Or heavily in the red when it comes to purchasing products. Whether that be Daz, or canvas and paint, it's all the same. The reality is that support, new dev or not, is what drives a game forward to its finish. Doesn't even have to be financial, but it comes as an inherent bonus of a game's popularity. If the dev abuses the financial trust supporters put into the product/project and the dev milks/abandons it (except for a select few, apparently.), they'll have a hard time gaining any traction for another if they decide to try again. It's really that simple. You do you, that's fine. But you probably shouldn't be telling others what to do.
[/QUOTE]

You make solid points all around. I agree with you. It would be totally retarded to say some kinds of art are better than others, I am emphatically not trying to say that. I am not trying to comment about what kinds of are people should or should not support. My perspective was narrow, because I was inclined to speak about the kinds of project that interest me the most. I do not mean to exclude any kind of artist. People should support what they enjoy.

With respect to the second point; I somewhat disagree. For a new person starting out I doubt the barriers standing between them and a quality finished game are financial. If anything I'd say they're technical. Could my initial financial support make a difference? Yeah maybe, but I don't want to hand hold every dev on the net just getting into it. If they really want to make something they'll figure out how to do it. That's what distinguishes amateur artists from professional artists.

The reason I shared my thoughts was because I was tired of seeing so many unfinished and drawn out projects. I obviously can't make anyone do anything. I'm only saying what I'm going to do, but am encouraging others to do likewise because I think it might improve the quality of games that are available on the web.

Please pay no attention to me if you think i'm full of shit.

 

[おい！]

 

[Losersriot]

finish the game in a timely manner.

Why do you need to finish the game ? Will you get an orgasm from the end credits lol ? For example, I get all the buzz DURING the game. So I don't want to finish my favorite games. I want updates to come out more often. if you want the game to end quickly, just don't play it.

 

[Dankwank]

You are telling other people to spend money based on your arbitrary criteria. Think about that for a second lol. Never mind the fact that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what patreon is. They are not selling a product for X dollars. They are making a thing, most of which are released free at some point, and people who want to throw them some money can do so.

I support several developers and artists on patreon. Some release their content for free, and I applaud that. I think that should be industry standard practice. Plenty of others go on to sell their games, which are frequently 3 hours of game play or less, for like 15-30$ or more after being fan supported for years. I think that fucking lame.

I'm not offering my advice because I think I know everything. I just felt the need to at least try and say something constructive. Why bother being critical of something, without proposing an alternative? You're free to take it or leave it. Maybe I have a skewed perspective? In my experience most h-games on the net never get finished. Many that do end up getting resold after already having been fan financed. Am I missing a big piece of the picture?

 

[PrinceOfShades]

There are some games where you don't want to see the ending. Instead, you want to see steady progress. For example, sandboxes. Do you really want a sandbox game to end? Or do you want to see more content added to it?

I've always had this theory of mine, you see. Hear me out.
If you watch a lot of modern movies, you can see that all of them want to hit 90 minutes. I'm not sure if that's just the industry standard or there's some sort of requirement, but the fact remains that 90 minutes is the minimum for a movie.
In my experience, movies that stop at the 90 minute mark tend to be generic or outright bad. Of course, there are exceptions as with anything, but this seems to be pretty common. In contrast, movies that go towards 120 minutes or more tend to be better than average.
Now let's draw a conclusion from this. Any writer has a story to tell in that movie. However, a lot of them make up movies that would last less than 90 minutes, which forces their hand to extend it with unnecessary flourishes until they hit the time goal. On the other hand, movies that last 120 minutes have a clear plot that is intricate and to the point (with exceptions bla bla bla). Why? Because the writer had so much story to tell the viewer that it ended up going over the regular movie length. It means they had a lot to express.
So the first conclusion that I draw from a movie before seeing it stems from its length. And I'm usually right in my assumptions.

Going back to creators and Patreon, if someone has a story to tell then they shouldn't be forced to finish a game. However, I do agree with you that you should only reward devs that are true to their word. But let's find a compromise here: you should only reward devs that are CONSISTENT with updates and make update posts. Not necessarily only devs who finish their projects. Big projects may take years to finish, and I personally don't find it fair to ignore them just because of that. As long as the dev puts in work, they should be rewarded.
And if the dev is new, then they would appreciate the support that much more and I'm sure they'd feel more motivated to continue. I think a new developer would be more likely to quit if they don't receive support, don't you think so?

We should also keep in mind that a developer gains supporters because they enjoy their current project. Finishing a game and starting another one with different fetishes/genres might divide the supporter base instead. So that's why a lot of them are motivated to keep releasing what the fans want, which is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the work is consistent and qualitative.

But then again, my view is limited to solo developers or small teams. I'm not talking about companies here. And I do agree that crowdfunding is terrible for the most part, although some good things have come out of it.

 

[Alcahest]

This might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think crowd sourcing is an effective way to finance the production of a game. I'm gonna struggle to clarify all my thoughts on this subject so please bare with me. One issue I have with crowd sourced games is that there is no incentive to actually finish the game in a timely manner. There's plenty of games out on the net that have been in development for upwards of 2 years, all while being crowd sourced by varying sized groups of fans. To me it seems like the dev is just milking them for cash. I'm sure you can all think of plenty of examples.
Secondly I feel like crowd sourcing has empowered more half ass developers than it has actually sincere creatives. Maybe this is an obvious observation, because of course it takes an especially talented person to produce a quality creative project, but whatever. I don't want to support devs who are going to waste my time and my money.
Third I feel like sites like patreon have facilitated slow, and ineffectual, game development under the guise of democratizing the creative process. Personally , I only support devs who demonstrate a clear trajectory for their projects because I want to see it get finished sooner, not because I want to have some impact on the direction of the creative work. No amount of interest polls will ever make me tolerate slow game development. If I have to wait upwards of a year and a half for a game, or pay upwards of 60 dollars for something, then the project isn't worth my interest. AAA rated games cost 60 dollars. Thus i'm not going to fork over my hard earned money for mediocre bs.

With all that being said I'd like to advocate for the following
Dont
1. Support games that have no clear release date.
2. Offer more than 60$ (USD) to any project.

Do
1. Support artists who draw porn. Most do so because they love it, and most can't do so full time, even if they wanted to. We should try to enable them.
2. Support Devs who consistently finish their work. Every Dev who finishes a project, even a lousy one, is worth 100 who never finish one for 2+ years.

As it happens, I'm just about to complete my game after 2 years. And I can tell you, that two years isn't that much for one person creating a game from start to finish. It's not like the games are making themselves. If you want less time before completion then the game will have less content/less quality. You seem to advocate that devs should only make short games, as if finishing a game is much more worth than the actual gameplay you are doing to get to the finish. I think you should rethink that part and enjoy the gameplay instead.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There's plenty of games out on the net that have been in development for upwards of 2 years,

What is a decent amount of time for the development of a game by a semi-professional small team. And it happen that most games are developed by a single pure amateur.

I don't want to support devs who are going to waste my time and my money.

The money I can understand, but I wonder how they can waste your time. You can perfectly continue to live while they works on the game, and you have no obligation to stay informed of the development process. One minute/month to check the game status is enough.

Third I feel like sites like patreon have facilitated slow, and ineffectual, game development under the guise of democratizing the creative process.

And I feel like you don't know what Patreon is. At no time it's a platform to fund the creation of something. Patreon is a sponsorship structure where people can, like middle age patrons, provide some money to the creators they like, in order for them to be able to create whatever they want to create, without having to bother with their income.

Thus i'm not going to fork over my hard earned money for mediocre bs.

Yet, by not tolerating game with slow development, it's what you are doing. Only professional structures that can afford to put at least five persons on a project can provide a quality game in less than 2 years.
Quality need time, and time is precisely what you deny to the creators.

Dont
1. Support games that have no clear release date.
2. Offer more than 60$ (USD) to any project.

3. Tell me what to do with my money, especially after having proved that you don't understand what Patreon is, nor how difficult it can be to create a game.

2. Support Devs who consistently finish their work. Every Dev who finishes a project, even a lousy one, is worth 100 who never finish one for 2+ years.

Lets see..
On one side, there's games like Heavy Five, that needed 9 months for its last update, but added, with the said update, 1400 still images and 220 animations, for a words count near to 60.000. On the other side, there's games that don't even reach half of those numbers after their one year only of development...
Yeah, no, I'll continue to not care about games that are developed too fast. They way too rarely reach an average level of quality.