Creating a fantasy VN on ren'py with 3DCG Daz3d.. i've question

[Syploore]

Hola. I'm currently developing a fantasy world for my visual novel, and I was wondering what advice the forum community can give to developers of fantasy-themed aVN? What to avoid? What aspect should be given more time and attention, what mistakes can be made, that sort of thing. It's very interesting to hear your opinions and advice.

 

[Losersriot]

Hola. I'm currently developing a fantasy world for my visual novel, and I was wondering what advice the forum community can give to developers of fantasy-themed aVN? What to avoid? What aspect should be given more time and attention, what mistakes can be made, that sort of thing. It's very interesting to hear your opinions and advice.

- Tell me, Clarissa, what do we crave most?
- We covet what we see every day.

Everyone is sick of this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy.

 

[MarbleCrown]

If you're looking for general advice on worldbuilding there are plenty of resources out there.

I think believability and instilling a sense of permanence for the world existing beyond your story are the most important parts of immersive world building. Always flesh out the parts of your world that are closest to the story you're trying to tell while the aspects of the world far from your story can be vague/mysterious.

Just don't let yourself fall victim to "worldbuilder's disease". Where you're paralyzed with fear of actually writing and working on your game and instead you stick to the safe confines of worldbuilding to give you a false sense of progress on your project.

 

[Syploore]

- Tell me, Clarissa, what do we crave most?
- We covet what we see every day.

Everyone is sick of this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy.

On the one hand, "I had enough of "world like ours we have those posted on F95 like... every day.", "could be fun even if it's going to be in our infinitely boring everyday world." ( Saw this in another thread ) and on the other hand "Everyone is sick of this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy.".. i meaaaan..

Jokes aside, i know what you mean by "this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy", and that's why I created this thread to get feedback on what people like and dislike about fantasy worlds, some gameplay mechanics ( renpy, right? ) or plot features. Don't get me wrong, but I'm trying to make a good fantasy world that is believable and fun to watch.

If you're looking for general advice on worldbuilding there are plenty of resources out there.

I think believability and instilling a sense of permanence for the world existing beyond your story are the most important parts of immersive world building. Always flesh out the parts of your world that are closest to the story you're trying to tell while the aspects of the world far from your story can be vague/mysterious.

Just don't let yourself fall victim to "worldbuilder's disease". Where you're paralyzed with fear of actually writing and working on your game and instead you stick to the safe confines of worldbuilding to give you a false sense of progress on your project.

Thanks for the advice and input. I appreciate it.

 

[Ceesko]

Avoid making the world revolve around the player.

 

[Losersriot]

On the one hand, "I had enough of "world like ours we have those posted on F95 like... every day.", "could be fun even if it's going to be in our infinitely boring everyday world." ( Saw this in another thread ) and on the other hand "Everyone is sick of this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy.".. i meaaaan..

Jokes aside, i know what you mean by "this stinking, repetitive, endlessly dumb fantasy", and that's why I created this thread to get feedback on what people like and dislike about fantasy worlds, some gameplay mechanics ( renpy, right? ) or plot features. Don't get me wrong, but I'm trying to make a good fantasy world that is believable and fun to watch.



Thanks for the advice and input. I appreciate it.

O.K.


1) I hate 'elf' ears. They look like false ears for Halloween. It's a cheap farce.
2) I hate fights, battles, combat in porn games. I'm not a prepuberty stupid kid who hasn't decided whether he wants - a porn movie or a toy robot for his birthday.
3) It's the sameness of fantasy that frustrates me. I'm tired of seeing the same boring medieval Scandinavia over and over and over again.
4) Nasty, ugly, repetitive, beggarly-looking outfits. It feels like watching a strolling street theatre.
5) I'm tired of magic, sorcery and witchcraft. It's a boring, dull, idle chore that feels like punishment. The real magic is when the girl next door puts on leggings and sequin make-up and gets into her sugar daddy's car. THERE IS MAGIC. I want sex, not a job making potions or swords or some other crap.
6) If I ever see a medieval German king again... stop. (whispers): Okay. King is fine. German is fine. But in the 19th century. Like Ludwig II of Bavaria. I bet most of the local kids have never even heard of him. Google it.
7) Good porn games (not puberty masturbator's harems) are about emotions - tenderness, sentimentality, sensuality, caressing, protection, and so on. In order to show it better, it needs to be believable, so that the player can put himself in the MC's shoes.

 

[zuulan]

O.K.


1) I hate 'elf' ears. They look like false ears for Halloween. It's a cheap farce.
2) I hate fights, battles, combat in porn games. I'm not a prepuberty stupid kid who hasn't decided whether he wants - a porn movie or a toy robot for his birthday.
3) It's the sameness of fantasy that frustrates me. I'm tired of seeing the same boring medieval Scandinavia over and over and over again.
4) Nasty, ugly, repetitive, beggarly-looking outfits. It feels like watching a strolling street theatre.
5) I'm tired of magic, sorcery and witchcraft. It's a boring, dull, idle chore that feels like punishment. The real magic is when the girl next door puts on leggings and sequin make-up and gets into her sugar daddy's car. THERE IS MAGIC. I want sex, not a job making potions or swords or some other crap.
6) If I ever see a medieval German king again... stop. (whispers): Okay. King is fine. German is fine. But in the 19th century. Like Ludwig II of Bavaria. I bet most of the local kids have never even heard of him. Google it.
7) Good porn games (not puberty masturbator's harems) are about emotions - tenderness, sentimentality, sensuality, caressing, protection, and so on. In order to show it better, it needs to be believable, so that the player can put himself in the MC's shoes.

Adult game dosent need to be porn game, adult game mean, game consist content that is suitable for adult audience. No one actually wished to play a game what is all about fucking that kind of games mean 1 hour of game play or until you get off and then you are bored.

1)In my opinion, Fantacy game should have magic- but never fall in trap where magic is just plot idea. Most annoying things in fantacy games is restrictions like you cant use magic here or it dosent make sense to use magic here, it should be player decision.

2) also in fantacy game fighting should be a thing, fighting is way to develop you character, and manage situations and if you are smart you can avoid fighting and try to solve your problems else where.

3) In adult game, hunting down holes should be a chore, and most important plot device, but just thing player can do, seduce a virgin or pay and go whorehouse its your choice.


And of course dev can decide is it another porn game where main idea is to have jerk off material or it is adult game where sex is part of life, not the idea of life.

 

[zuulan]

What you should avoid, is kinks that are thrown in your face. Game can consist all kind of kinks and player can find them if they are interested. But what i realy dont like in games, that you building relation spending time , kissing with girls and then they say oops i forgot to mention im not normal girl i have dick. Or if you initiate intimate releation with someone you should have control actions, like im not into anal and realy dont like where only way to interact intimately is anal. It can be plot device for some characters, but if people are not interested in that kink there should be other options wiith other NPCs.

But as i read from OT, you plan to make VN and that means you dont make a game, you plan out plot and stick on it, it will be like book, where reader has no way to say where plot goes.

 

[Syploore]

O.K.


1) I hate 'elf' ears. They look like false ears for Halloween. It's a cheap farce.
2) I hate fights, battles, combat in porn games. I'm not a prepuberty stupid kid who hasn't decided whether he wants - a porn movie or a toy robot for his birthday.
3) It's the sameness of fantasy that frustrates me. I'm tired of seeing the same boring medieval Scandinavia over and over and over again.
4) Nasty, ugly, repetitive, beggarly-looking outfits. It feels like watching a strolling street theatre.
5) I'm tired of magic, sorcery and witchcraft. It's a boring, dull, idle chore that feels like punishment. The real magic is when the girl next door puts on leggings and sequin make-up and gets into her sugar daddy's car. THERE IS MAGIC. I want sex, not a job making potions or swords or some other crap.
6) If I ever see a medieval German king again... stop. (whispers): Okay. King is fine. German is fine. But in the 19th century. Like Ludwig II of Bavaria. I bet most of the local kids have never even heard of him. Google it.
7) Good porn games (not puberty masturbator's harems) are about emotions - tenderness, sentimentality, sensuality, caressing, protection, and so on. In order to show it better, it needs to be believable, so that the player can put himself in the MC's shoes.

1. Elves' ears are the main attribute of elves, except for their tallness and longevity (different ideas about elves in different authors, writers and Germanic mythology create their own distinctive features of elves, but ears are the Germanic canon). It's important to clarify here - do you dislike their ears in general, or their representation in short stories, movies and games? They're different everywhere, but we're not here to discuss elf folklore and anatomy, we're here to discuss visual novels for adults. Noted, next.

2. For me personally ( and probably for others ) classic kinetic visual novel a little tired, so that the dilution of gameplay in the form of battles and fights a little respite, but they need to do it wisely and correctly, in some games I saw just disgusting fight systems. But that's an individual thing. Noted.

3. I agree. Some games are like one another, but there are exceptions in the form of excellent fantasy games with their own universes and creatures (albeit standard in the type of elves, orcs, etc.), it all depends on the skill of the developer to immerse the player in the atmosphere of the world and interest him in the story.

4. I think it has more to do with developer resources. There are a large number of fantasy setting clothing assets, but developers (especially in their debut projects) use free, which is used anywhere. I spend a lot of time looking for good and unique clothing assests for my game, some of them look great, some look good, but I don't take the bad ones.

5. I agree to disagree. To me, magic is something so mysterious and powerful that it can never get boring. There are thousands of different representations of magic and I want to add one more to that thousand. I hope I can make it interesting rather than the usual fireballs and ice balls.
6. Some like Roman emperors, some like English kings, some like Turkish sultans. You can't please everyone, but I like your point.

7. I totally agree and that's exactly what I think. To me a visual novel for adults is not porn. For porn I have other sites and services. An adult visual novel is a good story, great characters, immersion and most importantly emotion. I don't do "jerk off," I do "feel and empathize."

P.S I reread my answers and it may seem like I have a huge ego and overestimated my abilities, but that was not my intention. I tried to answer as fully as I could. Anyway, whatever I wrote here, the real bottom line of my post is my game. And it's only by playing it that you can tell if I either have a huge ego or if I actually managed to do something interesting. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Adult game dosent need to be porn game, adult game mean, game consist content that is suitable for adult audience. No one actually wished to play a game what is all about fucking that kind of games mean 1 hour of game play or until you get off and then you are bored.

1)In my opinion, Fantacy game should have magic- but never fall in trap where magic is just plot idea. Most annoying things in fantacy games is restrictions like you cant use magic here or it dosent make sense to use magic here, it should be player decision.

2) also in fantacy game fighting should be a thing, fighting is way to develop you character, and manage situations and if you are smart you can avoid fighting and try to solve your problems else where.

3) In adult game, hunting down holes should be a chore, and most important plot device, but just thing player can do, seduce a virgin or pay and go whorehouse its your choice.


And of course dev can decide is it another porn game where main idea is to have jerk off material or it is adult game where sex is part of life, not the idea of life.

As I was writing my response, Zuulan wrote some very interesting thoughts. I like his approach and ideas. Thanks for your input, Zuulan.

 

[Syploore]

What you should avoid, is kinks that are thrown in your face. Game can consist all kind of kinks and player can find them if they are interested. But what i realy dont like in games, that you building relation spending time , kissing with girls and then they say oops i forgot to mention im not normal girl i have dick. Or if you initiate intimate releation with someone you should have control actions, like im not into anal and realy dont like where only way to interact intimately is anal. It can be plot device for some characters, but if people are not interested in that kink there should be other options wiith other NPCs.

But as i read from OT, you plan to make VN and that means you dont make a game, you plan out plot and stick on it, it will be like book, where reader has no way to say where plot goes.

Just the opposite. Maybe the language barrier played a bad trick on me and the translator misinterpreted what I meant, or maybe it was my typo, but I want to put a lot of emphasis on the RPG component, but I don't want to throw such big words around at this point. I want the player's actions and chosen lines to really affect the gameplay. Not in terms of - now and here, but really far-reaching decisions and consequences. But it's a huge amount of work and I really hope I have enough to do. At least I have a tremendous amount of enthusiasm and desire to do so at this point.

 

[Losersriot]

But what i realy dont like in games, that you building relation spending time , kissing with girls and then they say oops i forgot to mention im not normal girl i have dick.

 

[Catapo]

I prefer fantasy games over modern day ones but damn there are some things I got tired to see. (Note that I am also including stuff from fantasy RPGs since I can't think of many fantasy VNs on the spot)

1. Demon Lords. Seriously, just don't.

2. Wars between races that happened hundreds / thousands of years ago yet somehow they are still fucking relevant to characters.

3. Ancient demons that got resurrected and need to be sealed again or defeated.

4. Lust curses. I mean I like corruption games and this is a quick way to do it but it's getting kind of old.

5. Characters who are "the chosen one" or descendants of some great hero.

6. Shady royal advisors who are obviously shady and plotting against the king yet they don't get caught and executed for treason and everyone acts surprised when their plans are revealed.

7. I am not super bothered by it but I kind of share the same sentiment that fantasy doesn't have to always be set in some medieval europe.

8. Technology
- there are fantasy games out there that use cellphones and videocameras. Oops I meant "magical communication and image capturing devices"
- They look hot, but why are some females wearing japanese schoolgirl or bunny outfits in medieval times ?
- When you have characters (tipically some kind of bandits) using bombs with gunpowder you can't expect me to believe none of the crazy magical researches, that also appear a lot in games, haven't come up with the idea to use gunpowder or magic for bigger and stronger weaponry. "Mages shooting fireballs are cool but here, let's place some cannons around the castle instead."

9. The Adventurers Guild - Without a proper world building reason as to why it exists.

10. Multiple floor monster dungeons / towers that exist in the world and every adventurer wants to conquer them.

So in short my advice would be to make the world believable and avoid adding things in the world without reason just because other fantasy games had them.

Good Luck !

 

[nulnil]

Well here's the 3 main things you want to avoid:

• Daz3D
• Ren'py
• Visual Novels

Oh dear..

[]..but I want to put a lot of emphasis on the RPG component, but I don't want to throw such big words around at this point. I want the player's actions and chosen lines to really affect the gameplay.

Shit.

 

[Syploore]

Well here's the 3 main things you want to avoid:

• Daz3D
• Ren'py
• Visual Novels

Oh dear..



Shit.

Damn.. u got me.

 

[Syploore]

I prefer fantasy games over modern day ones but damn there are some things I got tired to see. (Note that I am also including stuff from fantasy RPGs since I can't think of many fantasy VNs on the spot)

1. Demon Lords. Seriously, just don't.

2. Wars between races that happened hundreds / thousands of years ago yet somehow they are still fucking relevant to characters.

3. Ancient demons that got resurrected and need to be sealed again or defeated.

4. Lust curses. I mean I like corruption games and this is a quick way to do it but it's getting kind of old.

5. Characters who are "the chosen one" or descendants of some great hero.

6. Shady royal advisors who are obviously shady and plotting against the king yet they don't get caught and executed for treason and everyone acts surprised when their plans are revealed.

7. I am not super bothered by it but I kind of share the same sentiment that fantasy doesn't have to always be set in some medieval europe.

8. Technology
- there are fantasy games out there that use cellphones and videocameras. Oops I meant "magical communication and image capturing devices"
- They look hot, but why are some females wearing japanese schoolgirl or bunny outfits in medieval times ?
- When you have characters (tipically some kind of bandits) using bombs with gunpowder you can't expect me to believe none of the crazy magical researches, that also appear a lot in games, haven't come up with the idea to use gunpowder or magic for bigger and stronger weaponry. "Mages shooting fireballs are cool but here, let's place some cannons around the castle instead."

9. The Adventurers Guild - Without a proper world building reason as to why it exists.

10. Multiple floor monster dungeons / towers that exist in the world and every adventurer wants to conquer them.

So in short my advice would be to make the world believable and avoid adding things in the world without reason just because other fantasy games had them.

Good Luck !

1. No demons in my game, so u can cross that out.

2. Wars that happened a long time ago are still reflected in our time, even though they happened over a hundred years ago. The closest example is World War II. But I
understand what you're saying, my game has echoes and a direct continuation of the old conflict between the races, but I explained inside the game why.

3. No demons.

4. Agreed.

5. Unfortunately ( or fortunately ) this is one of the key moments in fantasy RPG games/movies/books. Frodo is the chosen one who can resist the power of the ring and is trusted to take it to Mordor. The Dragonborn is a born man who can absorb the souls of dragons and use the Tu'um, which means he is the one destined to save us from a great and terrible evil. And so on and so forth. It doesn't make the game any worse or uninteresting, but I understand that no one wants to see Mary Sue for the hundredth time in a row. I agree.

6. This is the hallmark of a bad writer.

7. Noted.

8.
- The first one is really nonsense. Without a proper explanation, it seems like nonsense. But that's the writer's fault.
- Second - Of course such outfits knock out the atmosphere, but if properly presented, why not? We came here to jerk off, after all.
- Third - I agree.

9. Anything without proper world-building will seem useless, so I agree.

10. No monsters \ demons \ orcs in my game, so rest easy.

Thank u for your input and tips.

 

[woody554]

I think you should avoid most of the advice you get. especially the type that clearly don't like fantasy to begin with. fantasy is definitely 99% about tropes, cliches and 1970s D&D rule books. it's genre writing at its purest, and the people who love fantasy DO want to see all those familiar things they've seen a thousand times before. when they see their 100th book with a dragon in its cover they go "wow, cool! a dragon!", not "fucking hell, not another stupid fucking dragon!"

it's not for everyone, but the ones who don't like basic fantasy will NOT ever play your game.

lean on the tropes rather than avoid them. give them a new spin where you can but don't try to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Synx]

5. Unfortunately ( or fortunately ) this is one of the key moments in fantasy RPG games/movies/books. Frodo is the chosen one who can resist the power of the ring and is trusted to take it to Mordor. The Dragonborn is a born man who can absorb the souls of dragons and use the Tu'um, which means he is the one destined to save us from a great and terrible evil. And so on and so forth. It doesn't make the game any worse or uninteresting, but I understand that no one wants to see Mary Sue for the hundredth time in a row. I agree.

You cannot avoid this really. If something world altering is happening you want to follow the one that is going to resolve it. Otherwise what's the point of the world altering event happening, if your following a random farmer that isn't involved into it at all. Even if the event is much smaller in scale like a conflict in a city or something you still want to follow the major players in that conflict, not the random guy involved into it. Like I highly doubt anyone was thinking while watching Game of Thrones it would be more interesting if instead of following the Kings, The leaders, The legend swordsman, it should have followed a random soldier involved in the war. It might have been interesting for one episode or something, but for the whole series? Fuck no.

It's the same in everything that's non historic really. The main conflict or love interest or whatever in the story always revolves around the main character. That's why he is the main character. If your watching a movie about a bank robbery do you want to follow the detective that catches the robbers, or the agent that is closing off the road?

And it makes sense if you think about it. A story needs to have a proper ending and that means the main event happening needs to end. If your following a random guy involved in the event instead of the main resolver, the ending will in most cases be shit since it gets solved with minimal involvement of the main character. Like the ending of the War of the Worlds

Spoiler: Ending Spoiler

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Historic is the only exception on this rule really since you already know how the main event ends. Following Hitler in a WW2 movie isn't more interesting than a random soldier, since you know before the movie starts the ending of the war. Following a random soldier might even be more interesting as you don't know his ending.

Anyway that's enough rambling about The chosen one and all that. I agree with Woody that you should just lean into the tropes more then trying to reinvent the wheel. They are common tropes/cliches for a reason; they are popular. And besides there aren't that many Adult Fantasy games out there compared to the modern settings ones, so anything you make is properly a bit of fresh air compared to the dozen modern copies thrown out every day.

Only things I really would advice is to always keep the main story clear and not get lost in (meaningless) countless sex scenes. Otherwise it can easily come across that your milking your game instead of actually continuing the story. It's the same problem a lot of modern setting games have, but it will feel more exaggerated if you got a major event happening that is promptly ignored for several updates for meaningless side stories and sex scenes.

The other one is the combat mechanics in your game. I cannot think of one game where I liked the combat mechanics. They always just suck horrible. Creating a good combat mechanic takes an absolutely shit time of work and skill. If your a new Dev (and it seems you are) I would highly advice to not have any combat in your game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

lean on the tropes rather than avoid them. give them a new spin where you can but don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Either a new spin, or full speed on the cliché. It's what make fantasy good, especially in this kind of games.

Cheesy elves and raw goblins are a safe bet, but why not bastard elves and educated goblins ? An universe were Elves are slavers, while goblins are trying to open humans and dwarfs eyes, and to get their help in order to build a better world.

"Listen human, Elves aren't your friends."
"But ? They are so intelligent and so strong. They know how to build things, how to hunt, and even how to grow food. I'm nothing, I don't know all this."
"Bullshit ! All this is pure bullshit propaganda. You should read Boibrut's chronicles, they talk about the history of our world. For centuries Humans had kingdoms everywhere. They were the rulers of this world."
"That's not true ! I know history, my master taught it to me. Elves saved us from our nothingness."
"Your master lied to you, they all lie to you. Like the great philosopher Ihzorm once said, 'when the ears are pointed, not surprising that the tongue is forked'."

 

[woody554]

An universe were Elves are slavers, while goblins are trying to open humans and dwarfs eyes, and to get their help in order to build a better world.

every now and then I go back to this after hours episode where they conclude

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. "admit it! the orcs were a subjugated class, the lowest race, they were never gonna get a chance at the middle earth dream!"

 

[anne O'nymous]

every now and then I go back to this after hours episode where they conclude

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. "admit it! the orcs were a subjugated class, the lowest race, they were never gonna get a chance at the middle earth dream!"

Think about this : Did Ents even tried to negotiate ?
With a bit of help, evolution gave a new chance to an excluded race, offering it the possibility to quit the caves and finally live a happy life in daylight. Then Ents happened and committed a genocide.