Critique on [Corruption]; Also Debauchery, Depravity, and false moral dichotomies

[Pervtron3000]

TL;DR Abstract: My annoyance with false dichotomies surrounding sexual indulgence, and my suggestion to game developers to challenge the way they morally treat and frame sexual debauchery in their games.

Purity and Corruption have been plaguing sex games for as long as I can remember. In this way sex games have been mirroring the dominant historical "morality" of many civilizations.
In real life there were a lot of reasons to encourage things like chastity and sexual fidelity in committed relationships. Things like paternity, diseases, resource support, inheritance, feelings of betrayal, feelings of inadequacy, feeling disrespected, jealousy, etc can lead to terrible societal disharmony and civil unrest. Things like infidelity also lead to suffering through false-paternity, devastating to both child and father.
So, its not to say there is no merit to pre-conceived notions of sexual/relational purity.
Historically puritanical civilizations have been very strong and tended to conquer non-puritanical civilizations. So on the one hand they are pretty good to be in for stability, but on the other hand they penalized sexual indulgences and oppressed individual freedom.

But there is a difference between what might result in bad outcomes for society/effected individuals, and the internalized morality/ethics of how people view themselves and their intent. Especially in the context of sex-games, where the setting could be utopian where many of the societal/personal needs for purity are no longer relevant.
Best example could be STDs. Theres nothing sexy about STDs. No value added. Thankfully every single sex-game that I've played has no STDs in them. We are universally uninterested in them and no thank you, we all demand StarTrek settings without STDs.
Pregnancy is also usually optional, especially in fem-protag games. Not usually an issue for male-protag games. Breeding is hot, but the responsibilities aren't sexy to think about. We just trying to get off~
So challenge whether or not these "corrupt" things are actually harmful to anyone or anything. If they are, in what contexts are they harmful? Use your brain not some formula, not some historical consensus.
These are important to think about in order to make sex-games that have real mass-appeal. Mindlessly bundling sexual indulgences in with things like betraying your friends, or siding with the enemy... these "corruption" routes might actually be one of the most contrived non-demands in all of sex-gaming.

And imagine, if there weren't that much demand for actual corruption routes, and instead people really just wanted to enjoy sexual indulgence, how much wasted development time could be saved?

So next this is just a short, inexhaustive list of what I have gleaned from sex-games of what can be considered "corrupt"

Sexual promiscuity​

Sexual openness​

Seduction​

Prostitution​

BDSM​

bondage​

discipline​

sadism (getting pleasure from other's actual suffering)​

sadism (getting pleasure from pleasuring masochists)​

masochism​

(the D and S have also been taken to stand for dominance and submission)​

dominance​

submission​

Cheating​

Cucking​

NTR (voluntary cucking and sadism )​

NTR (involuntary cucking and sadism )​

Groping/being groped​

Dirty talk​

Betrayal (context matters so much here. Spies betray.. or do they? )​

Cruelty​

Abuse of power (this is still highly controversial. For some, all is fair in war. For others, be honorable)​

Lying/Deception (For self gain, or malicious intent. Concealment of betrayal)​

Lying/Deception (there are many good reasons to lie. We oversimplify the morality of lying and deception)​

etc​

A much broader conceptual list, could be:

Sex with the "wrong" people (Sex with the enemy. James Bond does it all the fucking time, and he doesn't betray his friends or country [entitlement])​

The "wrong" kind of sex (Oh my god, oral/anal/facial/gangbang/blowbang?? So corrupt! Only missionary through a hole in the sheet like god intended [insecurity])​

Sex in the "wrong" situations (Only in bed on friday date night at exactly 9:30pm through the aforementioned hole in the sheet [insecurity])​

Making or being receptive to the "wrong" kind of sexual advances (H-hey! Don't grab her tits in public! [insecurity, entitlement])​

Using the "wrong" kind of language (Good morning pumpkincakesweetypie! [insecurity])​

Having the "wrong" degree of intensity (You enjoy sex too much! [insecurity])​

Having the "wrong" desires/fantasies (You want to bang the other school's football team? Obviously you want your school to lose.. right? [entitlement])​

You get the idea.. the "wrong" things.. viewed as corrupt or bad through the lens of the uninvolved's sexual insecurity, and/or entitled expectations of other's sexual behavior​

Thank you for listening to my TED Talk. What are your opinions on corruption?
Do you think that there is a falsely over-inflated demand for corruption arcs/routes?
For those who enjoy the purity vs corruption dichotomy in sex games, what aspects associated with purity routes are you after, and what aspects associated with corruption routes are you after?
For developers; do you feel limited when committing to the purity-corruption dichotomy? How much effort usually goes into corruption arcs/routes/systems? Could your games improve by divorcing sexual indulgences from "corruption"?

 

[anne O'nymous]

So next this is just a short, inexhaustive list of what I have gleaned from sex-games of what can be considered "corrupt"

Sexual promiscuity​

Sexual openness​

Seduction​

An advice for the next time you'll try to troll, be more subtle...

 

[Pervtron3000]

An advice for the next time you'll try to troll, be more subtle...

I'm not trolling but I have been drinking and may have said soemthing stupid. I think I misused "inexhaustive"
If you mean Sexual promiscuity, openness, or seduction aren't considered corrupt in sex-games, I'm not trolling.
Shoot, Manila Shaw is a recent game that I've played that has all 3 of these things considered to be corruption/corrupting in it's Justice vs Corruption system.

Somebody at a bar gropes you? Slap his hand away! (+1 Justice) Do nothing (+1 Corruption)
Need to convince John Doe to give you information? Handjob (neutral) Blowjob (+1 Corruption) Fuck him (+2 Corruption)
Need to get a certain outcome from someone? Threaten to turn them in (+1 Justice also: WHAT??) Seduce him (+1 Corruption)

Sorry if I misunderstand what you think is a troll. This is my god-honest opinion on corruption in sex games.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Somebody at a bar gropes you? Slap his hand away! (+1 Justice) Do nothing (+1 Corruption)
Need to convince John Doe to give you information? Handjob (neutral) Blowjob (+1 Corruption) Fuck him (+2 Corruption)
Need to get a certain outcome from someone? Threaten to turn them in (+1 Justice also: WHAT??) Seduce him (+1 Corruption)

So it's not sexual promiscuity, sexual openness and seduction, but sexual assault, bribing and manipulation. And yes, the last three are corruption, not because they corrupt you. They are because you need to be already corrupted to accept it or do it.

Unless the characters starts with an innocent personality, or the story rely on substance/magic, corruption games aren't effectively about corruption of the MC/girls, but about the acceptation of your/their corrupted mind. Even in incest games, you don't corrupt the mother, you make her realize that she in fact see no problems in having sex with her son.
This also apply when the corruption rely on blackmail. In real life, a girl blackmailed for sex would be ashamed, feel raped, and more or less slowly starts to hate sex. It's only if she already have a corrupted mind, that she starts to like it, and then act either as a slut or as a demanding sub. Not because you corrupted her, but because you opened her eyes ; it's how she like sex.
This imply that, again excluding innocent personalities and substance/magic, the notion of purity is already out of the picture right from the start. Those characters aren't pure and never were, they just ignored how far they are ready to go, because they never faced such situation. Strictly speaking you don't corrupt them, you help them discover how corrupted they already are.

 

[kzaazul]

So it's not sexual promiscuity, sexual openness and seduction, but sexual assault, bribing and manipulation. And yes, the last three are corruption, not because they corrupt you. They are because you need to be already corrupted to accept it or do it.

Unless the characters starts with an innocent personality, or the story rely on substance/magic, corruption games aren't effectively about corruption of the MC/girls, but about the acceptation of your/their corrupted mind. Even in incest games, you don't corrupt the mother, you make her realize that she in fact see no problems in having sex with her son.
This also apply when the corruption rely on blackmail. In real life, a girl blackmailed for sex would be ashamed, feel raped, and more or less slowly starts to hate sex. It's only if she already have a corrupted mind, that she starts to like it, and then act either as a slut or as a demanding sub. Not because you corrupted her, but because you opened her eyes ; it's how she like sex.
This imply that, again excluding innocent personalities and substance/magic, the notion of purity is already out of the picture right from the start. Those characters aren't pure and never were, they just ignored how far they are ready to go, because they never faced such situation. Strictly speaking you don't corrupt them, you help them discover how corrupted they already are.

I think what OP means is that many actions relating to sexual opennes are corrupt, even when they don't hurt others.

In Japanese games, wearing sexy clothing or using the FeMC sexinness to get more people to go to her shop, for example, are considered corrupt actions. However, are they morally corrupt? And if so, why? Is there a reason beyond society seeing women being sexual as corrupt?

 

[danarchist_lewd]

I mean, anything with a story needs some kind of arc to it. In porn games, "corruption" (though I think that's not always the most accurate descriptor) is an easy way to introduce this. Generally our MC has an ideology (we should just have sex if we want to have sex) and by interacting with the gameplay systems you're creating the character arcs of the other characters (that they should embrace that ideology). I've seen different games do this a little differently, I don't think all of them frame it as a moral issue as you laid it out (though some do).

You could remove this sort of arc, but you'd need a new one to introduce tension. Ideally one where getting sex and creating character arcs are linked some how (otherwise the sex scenes are less engaging because they don't actually contribute to the story).

But... yeah, honestly, the whole black and white morality thing is so early '00s gaming and we should really move passed it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I think what OP means is that many actions relating to sexual opennes are corrupt, even when they don't hurt others.

What change nothing to the fact that the three examples he gave do not match the description he used for them.

If a stranger is groping you, it's not sexual promiscuity, it's a sexual assault, period. It's not because your corrupted mind like being groped by strangers, that it stop to be a sexual assault. You are consenting to be assaulted, it's not the same.
Same for the fact to suck a dick or fuck. It would be sexual openness only if you were doing it without other intent than to have/give some pleasure. But since you are explicitly doing it to have something in exchange, it's bribing. And seducing someone only in order to get something in return is being manipulative.

In Japanese games, wearing sexy clothing or using the FeMC sexinness to get more people to go to her shop, for example, are considered corrupt actions.

They are corrupted actions, what again is not the same that corrupting actions.
It's not because a counter is increased, that it's something new that don't existed before. The counter do not marks a change in your personality, but a better awareness about yourself ; you aren't more corrupted, you discovered that you are corrupted enough to not be bothered by this.
Unlike "love", that marks how far you can go, "corruption" marks how far you dared to go or, said otherwise, how well you know yourself. And when you refuse to do something, it doesn't mean that you don't want to corrupt her more, but that you don't believe that she's this corrupted.

 

[Pervtron3000]

If a stranger is groping you, it's not sexual promiscuity, it's a sexual assault, period.

I will certainly concede that irl yes that is almost certainly the case if you were to grope a woman like Manila Shaw.
However it is not that simple. I've been groped maybe 20ish times in my life, and I've only ever enjoyed it and been flattered.
I completely understand this isn't an equivalent to an attractive female being groped by a man. Theres a gender dynamic here that people wouldn't believe until you come with me to a gay bar. (i'm bi) Women tend to grope men without worry. Gay men grope other gay men once attraction is understood. Women groping women.. I wouldn't advise. Men groping women is yeah don't do it.

And I never fully understood it until I had a convo about it with a friend where we talked about groping. I have simply never minded it. I've always found it flattering and that people like my body, but my friend brought up valid points about ownership and entitlement and whatnot, and I get her point. But it doesn't change how I feel about it, I still find it flattering.

So for me, I don't find it an assault, and thus the police would not find it an assault. But you do and I completely understand and respect that. I just don't agree on that "period."

Spoiler: also an ex gf blah blah blah

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Theres just no calculus on consent. Each person is a different system with a different model, and no instruction manual. I would never take the expectations/instruction manual from the aforementioned gf and apply it to any other gf.

But in a sex-game, we don't need to make NPCs guess. If I'm the MC and one of my NPC colleagues grabs a tit and gives it a squeeze, its really up to me to decide if thats assault or not. If I'm ok with it though, then its.. not assault. I decide that, nobody else. You can call that assault, if you are the MC, and so you are right, because you get to decide. Just like in real life, you decide whether or not its assault. But I digress.

Getting back to how these decisions influence corruption paths, and how something like letting a stranger grope me is somehow going to "corrupt" me.

From my experience, corruption paths usually involve the MC's ethics, morality, or mission changing. These paths have an impact on the story that typically limit your decision options concerning your mission goals and moral choices. And its almost always absurd to make the MC's sexuality choices affect the story in this way.

In Manila Shaw, for example, you have to wear the Sex Bomb dress, period. Its part of seducing John Doe. You could consider a police officer dressing like a prostitute and seducing an informant to be "corrupt", but the game doesn't. What the game considers corrupt is your sexuality. You are already a police officer dressed like a prostitute seducing an informant. We are already there. The corrupt part is already done. But what the game considers +Justice is not having sex, and what it considers +Corruption is not just sex, but what kind of sex you have. So what the game is ends up moralizing is the MC's sexuality. If Manila wants to fuck John, then she can fuck John. Doesn't need a reason other than she wants to.


Heres a comic that demonstrates something that I consider a perfectly moral, non-corrupt route in a sex game. (

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)
Asagi Igawa is a super powerful ninja who is in charge of a ninja school. In this comic she is killing 3 birds with one stone.

Keeping her school protected and provisioned​

Investigating a corrupt company​

Enjoying crazy drugged up sex​

Its not wholesome. (its the Taimanin series setting ) The official series also suffers from contrived corruption paths.
However in this particular story, she doesn't go all guess-i'll-betray-my-friends-because-my-pussy-feels-good ridiculousness.

R-Wade is a creator that thankfully understands that you can enjoy crazy drugged up sex as a normal, perfectly moral, loyal person. In most Taimanin games, they typically follow traditional corruption routes wherein the good shit moves you closer to betraying your friends and loyalties.


When sexuality is conflated with morality in sex-games, I suspect that it is misinforming developers as to what is truly in demand.
When players/patrons are after that wild kinky sex, but you locked it behind routes of betrayal and corruption, developers might get it twisted and think theres a higher demand for betrayal and corruption than there actually is. Probably far, far higher than their actually is.
I play the betrayal and corruption routes in sex-games, and I despise betrayal and corruption. I'm after that wild kinky sex.
I could play the good boi route and.. be chaste or have sex through a bedsheet with some loser the game says is the morally correct partner, but why would I do that? Its a sex game, I'm playing it for the sexy times. So I know that if a developer were to watch how I play, they'd draw the wrong conclusion.


Additionally, seeing how many sex-games get abandoned, makes me wonder if developers would be better off focusing their attention on their most inspired story route first. Get the story they are most excited to tell done first, and hold off on the other ones.
If you truly think theres a high demand for those other routes, first ask yourself what sexuality you are locking behind those routes. Is it possible that the demand is not for that route, but for that sexuality?
If you are conflating sexuality with morality, consider just.. not doing that. Consider just including the indulgences within the normal story. You might just save a loooot of time.
Just keep an open mind, and remember that nobody plays these games to be a chaste virgin just because we want to be the good guys.

 

[Meaning Less]

Corruption is simply the act of decreasing purity, the more pure a character is the lower is going to be their tolerance towards sexual acts.

Personal views on morally do not matter at all for the kink, and corruption games often offer other routes mostly to enhance the corruption route.

The player then knows that it was their choices that led that character turning into a slut instead of that happening automatically. That's why virgin routes exist, to enhance the other non-virgin kinks.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So for me, I don't find it an assault, and thus the police would not find it an assault.

You should specify the country you live in when writing such claim, because groping without consent is defined, depending of the country, as sexual abuse, sexual harassment or sexual assault, in many parts of the world.

[...] Sure, she was my gf, but it was still up to her to decide what is an assault. [...]

What part of "stranger" haven't you understood in, "if a stranger is groping you, it's not sexual promiscuity, it's a sexual assault, period" ?

But in a sex-game, we don't need to make NPCs guess. If I'm the MC and one of my NPC colleagues grabs a tit and gives it a squeeze, its really up to me to decide if thats assault or not. If I'm ok with it though, then its.. not assault. I decide that, nobody else.

As I said, the fact that you agreed after the act started do not change the definition of the act, just its outcome. And when applied to a game, it doesn't increase your corruption, just show how corrupted you effectively are.

From my experience, corruption paths usually involve the MC's ethics, morality, or mission changing. These paths have an impact on the story that typically limit your decision options concerning your mission goals and moral choices.

Because once it's decided, by the player, that the character is "this corrupted", there's no reason to ask again if the character is corrupted "to this point".

The corrupt part is already done. But what the game considers +Justice is not having sex, and what it considers +Corruption is not just sex, but what kind of sex you have. So what the game is ends up moralizing is the MC's sexuality. If Manila wants to fuck John, then she can fuck John. Doesn't need a reason other than she wants to.

You say it yourself and don't even see it, she don't need another reason, what mean that it's not corrupting her, but depicting how corrupted she is.

By the way, what the fuck with this part regarding the moralization ? As Meaning Less implied corruption do not necessarily oppose to moral. It need "a corrupted mind" to go on a bar just in order to have sex with a stranger, but as long as the other is consenting and you don't do it in the middle of the bar, it's absolutely not something against the moral. It's against puritans view, what is different to morality ; this despite what the said puritans are claiming.

Heres a comic that demonstrates something that I consider a perfectly moral, non-corrupt route in a sex game.
[...]

Enjoying crazy drugged up sex​

If she agreed to the drug and following sex, and seen from a generic point of view, it's a corrupted route, and if she was drugged in order to enjoy unwanted sex, it's a corruption route. Since you say that it's a "non-corrupt route", I guess it's the first.

Also, because it feel like it need to be said, there's nothing wrong in being corrupted. "Corruption" is just a word put at the opposite side for "purity" in the sexual activity scale. And when one talk about corruption, it generally use a double scale, depending if it talk in a generic way (what is corrupted according to what society depict as being the average sexual activity people are ready to agree to), or if he talk in a personal way (what is corrupted according to his own practice).

R-Wade is a creator that thankfully understands that you can enjoy crazy drugged up sex as a normal, perfectly moral, loyal person.

Unlike you. Because yes, contrarily to what you thought while writing this, and in fact also when starting this thread, you don't understand it. Else you would also understand what I said, twice, regarding the difference between "corruption" and "corrupting". You complain about the first, but never cease to talk about the second.

In most Taimanin games, they typically follow traditional corruption routes wherein the good shit moves you closer to betraying your friends and loyalties.

See what I said, it's not "corruption routes", it's "corrupting routes". It don't depict the real personality of the character (corruption), what happen in games that don't rely on drug/magic, but it show how the character personality is altered through the time (corrupting).
Side note: I don't include Hypnotism in the corrupting categories, because it's a gray area. There's authors who use it as an alternative for drug/magic, and authors who depict it as it really works ; under hypnotism you'll never do something that you don't agree to, therefore it's just here to free your mind and give up on your self repression.

When sexuality is conflated with morality in sex-games, I suspect that it is misinforming developers as to what is truly in demand.

Better players ?

When players/patrons are after that wild kinky sex, but you locked it behind routes of betrayal and corruption, developers might get it twisted and think theres a higher demand for betrayal and corruption than there actually is.

Why this constant association between "betrayal" and "corruption", that are two different notions. It really looks like the issue is not games, but your definition of corruption and moral.
To the eyes of the society, I'm a corrupted person, yet I'm also a faithful one, and I guess that people knowing me would say that I have a high morality. There's no incompatibility in this, because they are three unrelated notions.

 

[desmosome]

What's your main point? That corruption games are treating promiscuity as something corrupt when society should view sexual liberation as something positive?

Seems like you're missing the whole point of the genre. The type of promiscuity and sluttification in corruption games generally result from some form of non-con or dub-con stuff. In the case of male protagonist, he will dominate some bitches, or he himself will turn into a "bad" person as the story progresses if he starts out as an upstanding citizen. For female protagonist, you know the drill. She will get sexually harassed or get trained by some NTR dude and gradually (or immediately...) turn into some turbo slut.

It's not that being sexually liberated is a bad thing per se. It's the way the corruption stories portray the arc. Obviously, sexual harassment, blackmail, rape, cheating, and getting mind broken into some sex slave is a bad thing. That's basically the appeal of the corruption genre. It's meant to be dark and written that way.

The wholesome sexual liberation stuff is called vanilla.

 

[GTK/HLK]

Seeing the thread, it basicly boils down to, People being unreasonable on their stances, Cause their desire to attribute Reality into Fiction.(just like some demented people apply Fiction to reality. or Give Fictional Characters Rights like if they where people.)

its kind of like when a game offers you the option to be with multiple people, but then you arent given the option to be upfront with the person and tell them, that youre either a Mono/Poly, and if they want to give you a shot, they should know before hand. (Given the option, it would not only feed into the peoples desires to Actively do things as such as Cheating, Stealing ETC. that would fall into the Core idea of Corruption. which people false attribute to loss of control most of the time, when in the end its just the PC/MC allowing things to be a certain way, but no control was ceded to begin with until they set a line)
But most fall into what the OP has said. and it isnt simply a openess or as most disingenuous people would try to overwrite/interrupt as Trolling, Baiting, or simply show their hand at their other intentions for others tags.

(which tbh, some of the Terrible Writting tags like rare/rase/tori would feel triggered into defending the tags for sure.)

Then There is the idea that Purity and Corruptions are just names for different things. and arent inherently good or evil, or closed and open, limited/limitless, Restrained/Free, ETC ETC.

They are aspects, and with aspects of things, it only widens the reality of the content and offers more options than the single minded things.(it opens up the genre more, rather than denying the OP of their view which would be akin to restricting the Genre to a few set of stalls that stagnate and die off-which also leads to bs tags vs tags- as there is no growth)

You also have some well known games that also toe this idea that began their development years ago, some know for their large amount of customization, or number of triggers that affect the storys path, but not the general world. (some where the Corruption itself isnt even related to Good or Evil, but simply a force of nature, or artificial nature in some cases(or decay/instabilty of body's genetics in one games case)

ill just straight up say it..,
AON and Desmosone dont even know what the fuck their talking about.
for one Reality will always be a balance of risk and outcome, but that doesnt apply to games. you can use reality to flavor games, or use its reflections and make changes/antithesis. or use Fiction to inspire reality in some case(unrelated to the topic)
But their attempt to make it/derail the topic to that point, and ignore the OP's meaning/intent is a weaker case of strawmen.
(what they meant, that Reality had affected too much of games intent or perspectives/views. which it will get many peoples rocks off, it will not benifit the growing variability and new desires wanted from said genre. -i for one find myself simply dismissing games based on a few tags unless i know its story or gameplay, or speed of progressing enticing-be it slow, fast or coasting-. as the wants cannot be restricted much longer by past archetypes)

as for the whole, its vanilla.., you really dont even know what vanilla means anymore do you.
(while off topic, it just shows what people consider vanilla in the online space as we do, has shifted from what would of been vanilla in prior decades. Not for good or bad in either case-since this aint the topic for that atm-)

Vanilla in this genre just applies to the largely growing actions that get normalized.(with Rough and BDSM being pretty standardized options that are only stigmatized by uninformed people of previous generations) (and other tags or content becoming more normalized/tolerated/accepted in the communities.)

its no longer what the antiquated thoughts make each Tag be, but what their uses could offer. (one of them being Railroading like mentioned above with relationships. it could offer a players prefered way of play, or give them the option to not just let the game make them into a Cheater or Thief, but actively be one.)

(another bonus, is that the tags never even had much of a consensus of what they're at its core, just what people attributed from reality. which is diverse in its self with no real identity. Some games have Purity/Corruption be just if you had any sexual interaction or multiple. While others is a measure of multiple choices. -some being a scale of how much a "healthy" interest/experience with Sexual topics by yourself or others you have. mix or match with eventual or optional or forced. You can do these things you wouldnt to get a better outcome. as with others having a you dont need to as the choice is inconsequential, but it would restrict options later on. -which is another ridiculous thing of the genre depending on if the character has a deep story/background as to their choices, or just gamey stats allowing/preventing. Which is a more subjective thing.-)

While i wouldnt name it a Plague, it certaint does restrict many games from being decent to good.
as well as actively restricts most games from being outside of the expected boxes.
Like the Aspects i said the are before. even with games outside the Genre, you can see it there as well for different reasons.(some justified, since it doesnt need to go beyond it, others not so much)
With Purity Corruption Dark Light Lewdness Chasteness Chastity Control ETC ETC
(tied to either the world, in its forces of nature, or simply effects on people. Shown in some as being wholly unrelated to The Antiquated thoughts, while others being able to be overcome.)

The tags have shifted, and tbh, Corruption has become a tag for the Do what you must, Know yourself more, Suffer/overcome the obstacles or potential Consequences if any. all other options are just attemtps to apply agenda to a game genre meant to offer release, relevant to your form, or other form of release based on emotion.

 

[Death Panda]

Sex positive people are always the biggest bigots. Of course everyone must just want to get straight to the most depraved shit right away because that's what a good, devout sex positive person would want.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[long rant]

*hug* you clearly need it.

 

[DuniX]

The problem with OP's argument is that just because women have been sexually liberated and society doesn't consider that evil and whatnot means Turbo Sluts somehow don't exist anymore.

A Turbo Slut is a Turbo Slut and will always be a Turbo Slut no matter what rationalizations people use.
Debauchery, Depravity are part of their characterization because they are not good people in real life.

And Corruption is precisely the transformation of a person into a Turbo Slut.

 

[crnisl]

For those who enjoy the purity vs corruption dichotomy in sex games, what aspects associated with purity routes are you after, and what aspects associated with corruption routes are you after?

Actually, that discussion has made me recall a part of the old (1909) article

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, written by G.K. Chesterton, an English writer and lay theologist.

Spoiler: TLDR quote

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[Cwovictor]

Man, I just think it's hot to "sexually liberate" someone, introduce them to new fetishes, etc, etc. It's not that deep.

 

[balitz Method]

The real issue isn't even the idea of calling promiscuity, or even anything that isn't a m/f married couple in the missionary position for the sole purpose of making babies, 'corruption' - it's that so many games push the notion that women having a normal amount of interest in sex is abnormal. When you start from that you get all these characters who're clearly adults but are so chaste (while still wearing clothes that are barely more than bikinis) that they don't know the first thing about sex. It's pushing the idea that the default ('purity') is to have less than a child's understanding of and desire for sexuality.

It's an idea that exists solely so that sexuality can be forced on them through rape. Sexual desire is even phrased like a curse or a disease through plot devices like lewd crests that...uh, give the ultrachaste waifus normal libidos? I've seen tons of male protagonist games that have something like a lust/arousal meter that fills up over time, but I can only recall seeing something like this for a female protagonist if it's literally supernatural. Even in those cases where they have some knowledge of sex there's this need to throw in a corruption angle through NTR and/or more rape. I'm not saying that being forced into degrading (or anything you might lump under the corruption umbrella) acts can't be hot but it's too often phrased as if female characters wanting sex goes hand in hand with abuse. There are so many female protagonist games out there where the -only- sex she can have is rape - because how else could she possibly get interested in such things?

It's so lazy. Porn does tend to focus on extremes and dichotomies but these corruption games are to the point where, if you're not interested in miserable rape scenes where a character you probably like or relate to just gets hurt until she becomes a slut, most of the games in this very wide genre won't have much for you.

When it's implemented well it usually looks like Degrees of Lewdity or Tales of Androgyny or Pandora's Forest: the main character isn't uninterested in sex and will even have some opportunities to engage in it outside of rape but there's a constant oppressive atmosphere that compels you to approach these things carefully, to not indulge them too much or else you'll leave yourself vulnerable. Corruption works best when it's tempting you to engage in it and slowly moving you toward more and more debauchery. If you broadly paint any interest in sex as corruption it forces all sex period into being necessarily sadistic (you the player are expected to want to abuse the character) or masochistic (you the player are expected to project yourself into the helplessness of the character's situation) and that prevents something as fundamental as your hero(ine) falling for and having sex with someone they like.

 

[Orgitas]

I have constantly become irritated with the lack of logic in sex-centric AVNs. Also the frequency of an ugly MC with an IQ of an acorn managing to score 101 women back to back. I get it though. Not many people would want to sit through the gritty reality missionary then sleep, rinse and repeat. So the devs put their fantasies to paper (digital paper in this case). Yes, most of the time it is silly and far too quick to action. But, hey, a certain percentage don't want to read the notebook. They just want to play handy panky.

In a way these AVNs are there to play out those darker fantasies in the mind without having to get to the fucked up parts of it. Just the act, none of the build up nor the consequences.

Still, most stories from these novels would have ended in the first five pages if, logic was applied or, the MC thought for a moment.

 

[my_name_is_lurkers]

The real issue isn't even the idea of calling promiscuity, or even anything that isn't a m/f married couple in the missionary position for the sole purpose of making babies, 'corruption' - it's that so many games push the notion that women having a normal amount of interest in sex is abnormal. When you start from that you get all these characters who're clearly adults but are so chaste (while still wearing clothes that are barely more than bikinis) that they don't know the first thing about sex. It's pushing the idea that the default ('purity') is to have less than a child's understanding of and desire for sexuality.

It's an idea that exists solely so that sexuality can be forced on them through rape. Sexual desire is even phrased like a curse or a disease through plot devices like lewd crests that...uh, give the ultrachaste waifus normal libidos? I've seen tons of male protagonist games that have something like a lust/arousal meter that fills up over time, but I can only recall seeing something like this for a female protagonist if it's literally supernatural. Even in those cases where they have some knowledge of sex there's this need to throw in a corruption angle through NTR and/or more rape. I'm not saying that being forced into degrading (or anything you might lump under the corruption umbrella) acts can't be hot but it's too often phrased as if female characters wanting sex goes hand in hand with abuse. There are so many female protagonist games out there where the -only- sex she can have is rape - because how else could she possibly get interested in such things?

It's so lazy. Porn does tend to focus on extremes and dichotomies but these corruption games are to the point where, if you're not interested in miserable rape scenes where a character you probably like or relate to just gets hurt until she becomes a slut, most of the games in this very wide genre won't have much for you.

When it's implemented well it usually looks like Degrees of Lewdity or Tales of Androgyny or Pandora's Forest: the main character isn't uninterested in sex and will even have some opportunities to engage in it outside of rape but there's a constant oppressive atmosphere that compels you to approach these things carefully, to not indulge them too much or else you'll leave yourself vulnerable. Corruption works best when it's tempting you to engage in it and slowly moving you toward more and more debauchery. If you broadly paint any interest in sex as corruption it forces all sex period into being necessarily sadistic (you the player are expected to want to abuse the character) or masochistic (you the player are expected to project yourself into the helplessness of the character's situation) and that prevents something as fundamental as your hero(ine) falling for and having sex with someone they like.

This