Daz 3D Licenses for Games

[OhWee]

OK, I understand your confusion now!

The Daz 'Standard License' is for using the 3D model meshes that Daz3D owns outside of DS, as opposed to the PA products that are being sold through Daz. Yeah I know this is a bit confusing, but if it's a Daz Original, that usually means Daz owns it/has purchased the model rights from the relevant PA.

Before the 3D interactive license, yeah the 'Standard License' has been around for a while now, for the same reason that the 3D interactive license now exists. It only covered content actually owned by Daz3D, though. It's also intended for the use of the actual 3D models outside of the Daz rendering environment. 2D renders are still allowed under the standard EULA (which is free, and which you agree to when you install Daz).

At least, that's how I understand these, based on reading multiple Daz forum posts that were asking about them. @Rich has been using Daz longer than I have, maybe he can weigh in here.

I know that forum posts aren't legally binding (well unless you can convince a court of law, that is), but there's a number of threads similar to the two I'm linking here where visual novels are mentioned. Chohole and Chris Palermo are on the Daz payroll, at least that's my understanding from many many posts that they've made.

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[spjjipsinsfn]

The Daz 'Standard License' is for using the 3D model meshes that Daz3D owns outside of DS, as opposed to the PA products that are being sold through Daz.

So as long as I only "pirate" stuff that's also in the DAZ store and I only make 2D renders of them in Daz Studio/Iray, then it's prefectly legal to go nuts and "pirate" everything that I can possibly get my hands on?
Neat. You helped a lot. Thank yo very much for your time
Now I'll study the EUAs of other legal content provider sites to see the difference.

And I really mean that I'd eventually buy the models, I just couldn't get started with that right away and I need to be successful first, which isn't very likely looking at the sheer amount of failed content.

 

[OhWee]

So as long as I only "pirate" stuff that's also in the DAZ store and I only make 2D renders of them in Daz Studio/Iray, then it's prefectly legal to go nuts and "pirate" everything that I can possibly get my hands on?
Neat. You helped a lot. Thank yo very much for your time
Now I'll study the EUAs of other legal content provider sites to see the difference.

And I really mean that I'd eventually buy the models, I just couldn't get started with that right away and I need to be successful first, which isn't very likely looking at the sheer amount of failed content.

Yeah, pirating assets is a completely different issue, which has been discussed in other threads. Using assets that you didn't acquire legally is by definition illegal (even for 2D renders), but the question is, will anyone notice, and if so, will they bother to hunt you down?

Which is why I shop at the Daz store, a LOT, just because. But that's a call you'll have to make for yourself. And, this being a bucaneer forum and all...

 

[spjjipsinsfn]

Yeah, pirating assets is a completely different issue, which has been discussed in other threads. Using assets that you didn't acquire legally is by definition illegal (even for 2D renders), but the question is, will anyone notice, and if so, will they bother to hunt you down?

Which is why I shop at the Daz store, a LOT, just because. But that's a call you'll have to make for yourself. And, this being a bucaneer forum and all...

Sure, but then we get back to my original point. Is there a precedent of that? Has anybody ever actually gotten involved in a legal case over this? I just play these games, I don't follow the drama much, but I do know that Patreon would shut my page down at the first sign of even the slightest legal wrangling just to stay out of it.

 

[OhWee]

Sure, but then we get back to my original point. Is there a precedent of that? Has anybody ever actually gotten involved in a legal case over this? I just play these games, I don't follow the drama much, but I do know that Patreon would shut my page down at the first sign of even the slightest legal wrangling just to stay out of it.

Well, as far as 3D assets redistribution sites (not mentioning names here), well those do occasionally disappear thanks to DMCA takedown requests and such. As for 'individual' examples, I've not seen any specific examples mentioned personally, so I can't cite any specific examples for you. Maybe others can cite an example.

So it's a judgement call on your part. I.E. a rather similar situation to acquiring music via other means...

 

[Boogie]

I'm pretty new to the DAZ thing and am not working on any game, just doing it for fun. I have a PC+ membership and have bought many assets but most of what I have is dl'd from either F95 or one of the other pirate sites. If I was ever to make a game I would definitely purchase any asset I used, even if I had been using it for free. Certainly many developers feel the same way because they often complain about how much the assets are costing them. But does everyone? I'm pretty sure there are some devs using some of their assets for free. The DAZ Studio software itself doesn't know the difference and most of the porn games here on F95 are so small time that they wouldn't even be in the radar of DAZ Productions.

So I doubt there would be any concerns if you are just getting started. And when you do get around to actually paying for anything, never pay full price. There is always a sale, and I rarely buy anything without at least a 70% discount.

 

[spjjipsinsfn]

So it's a judgement call on your part. I.E. a rather similar situation to acquiring music via other means...

I see. You helped a lot. Thank you very much for taking the time.
I'll just risk it then. From what I can tell the worst case scenario of getting caught is that Patreon kicks me out and I have to abandon the project and then DAZ would probably stop caring. That's not too bad I guess.

The DAZ Studio software itself doesn't know the difference and most of the porn games here on F95 are so small time that they wouldn't even be in the radar of DAZ Productions.

Even though DAZ obviously has all the tools to stop my production long before I even launch the project, the final renders themselves are still recognisable. If the creator of an asset sees the game, recognises their product and checks up on if I bought the license for it or not, that creator would have a legitimate case against me.

 

[Rich]

Even though DAZ obviously has all the tools to stop my production long before I even launch the project, the final renders themselves are still recognisable. If the creator of an asset sees the game, recognises their product and checks up on if I bought the license for it or not, that creator would have a legitimate case against me.

In practice, I suspect that this would be difficult.

FYI, according to forum posts by several of the Daz PA's, they don't get a list of the people who have purchased their products, only a count of the total number of purchases. (I have no idea how other sites like Renderosity work.) I suppose that if there was a legal issue involved, that information could be pulled, but I suspect that there'd have to be a reason for Daz to do it.

In addition, connecting a Daz login (i.e. email) to a Patreon site would be problematic, since the Patreon site owner's email isn't exposed. Even then, the Patreon site owner may not be the one who actually did the renders, since there could be a team involved, a third party from whom the renders were commissioned, etc. So connecting those dots would also be difficult.

Finally, with the exception of "Daz Originals," Daz isn't the owner of the content - the PA is. For most of them, Daz is just a broker, and thus it has little or no reason (or standing) to pursue possible pirates on behalf of the PA's. Thus, the costs of any of this kind of work would have to come out of the PA's pocket.

I'm not advocating piracy - far from it. But, to be brutally frank, the chance of legal action against a small team or single person is pretty low, since the costs are high, the challenges many, and the chance of recovering anything is small. This is probably why you haven't heard about any examples. I suppose that if a page was raking in thousands a month based on some very recognizable content an inquiry might be made, but I doubt that you'd see lawyers queuing up to take a case like that...

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[spjjipsinsfn]

In practice, I suspect that this would be difficult.

FYI, according to forum posts by several of the Daz PA's, they don't get a list of the people who have purchased their products, only a count of the total number of purchases. (I have no idea how other sites like Renderosity work.) I suppose that if there was a legal issue involved, that information could be pulled, but I suspect that there'd have to be a reason for Daz to do it.

In addition, connecting a Daz login (i.e. email) to a Patreon site would be problematic, since the Patreon site owner's email isn't exposed. Even then, the Patreon site owner may not be the one who actually did the renders, since there could be a team involved, a third party from whom the renders were commissioned, etc. So connecting those dots would also be difficult.

Finally, with the exception of "Daz Originals," Daz isn't the owner of the content - the PA is. For most of them, Daz is just a broker, and thus it has little or no reason (or standing) to pursue possible pirates on behalf of the PA's. Thus, the costs of any of this kind of work would have to come out of the PA's pocket.

I'm not advocating piracy - far from it. But, to be brutally frank, the chance of legal action against a small team or single person is pretty low, since the costs are high, the challenges many, and the chance of recovering anything is small. This is probably why you haven't heard about any examples. I suppose that if a page was raking in thousands a month based on some very recognizable content an inquiry might be made, but I doubt that you'd see lawyers queuing up to take a case like that...

Just my opinion, of course.

Thank you for the reply.
Those are all very reasonable points, but in theory if a PA wanted to complain to Patreon, Patreon would first freeze my account and most likely just delete my account after checking on the PA's claims. Afaik they try to avoid any sort of petty legal processes like this and just kick people out if anything even remotely like this comes up because it's not worth it for Patreon to get invovled in stuff like this. In practice this is much stricter than the actual law and the legal process. It pretty much only takes a legitimate complaint and I'd be out of business. So pirate projects seem to be pretty vulnerable to me.
But obviously by the time I'd be raking in hundreds a month I'd definitely get around to buying everything I use. It's just intimidating that I have to operate illegally to even get started. If you think of it as a business then it's pretty crazy.

 

[Rich]

in theory if a PA wanted to complain to Patreon, Patreon would first freeze my account and most likely just delete my account after checking on the PA's claims. Afaik they try to avoid any sort of petty legal processes like this and just kick people out if anything even remotely like this comes up because it's not worth it for Patreon to get invovled in stuff like this.

You're correct that Patreon could act this way if they chose to. In theory, the burden of proof would be on the PA to show that you were using the content illegally. In practice, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Patreon would just cave.

In practice this is much stricter than the actual law and the legal process. It pretty much only takes a legitimate complaint and I'd be out of business. So pirate projects seem to be pretty vulnerable to me.

No argument. It would come down to what Patreon considered a "legitimate complaint."

But obviously by the time I'd be raking in hundreds a month I'd definitely get around to buying everything I use. It's just intimidating that I have to operate illegally to even get started. If you think of it as a business then it's pretty crazy.

Well, most "normal" businesses require a significant up-front capital outlay to get going, and this is one of the challenges for someone who's thinking of starting one. So, this isn't (conceptually) that much different from, for example, opening a bakery. The main difference is that the assets in question are intangible, and thus much easier to use without having paid for them.

I'm not saying there isn't a risk of this happening. I was just opining that the chances of it happening are low, and the exposure if it did is also low. Clearly, if one is profiting by using assets created by others, the ethical thing to do is to purchase them, not pirate them.

 

[spjjipsinsfn]

Well, most "normal" businesses require a significant up-front capital outlay to get going, and this is one of the challenges for someone who's thinking of starting one. So, this isn't (conceptually) that much different from, for example, opening a bakery. The main difference is that the assets in question are intangible, and thus much easier to use without having paid for them.

I'm not saying there isn't a risk of this happening. I was just opining that the chances of it happening are low, and the exposure if it did is also low. Clearly, if one is profiting by using assets created by others, the ethical thing to do is to purchase them, not pirate them.

Sure, but I'm 99% confident that most devs in this scene don't invest in every asset right away and start out illegally, thus having an advantage over somebody who'd want to do it all legitimately from the start. Not that I would be all legit right away either, I just wanted to know what I'm doing.
But whatever. I'm repeating myself. Thank you all for the help.
Time to gobbo it up!

 

[eppz]

A lot of good info in this thread, Thanks.

I wish the interactive licenses were cheaper though, seems WAY overpriced at the moment, from what i can tell it would cost around $200 in interactive licenses alone per character. plus the initial $100 for the "starter essentials license".

I'm currently working on a 3D game and the only thing stopping me from publishing the alpha build is me waiting for there to be an interactive license sale that never seems to come. Without some sort of discount it just doesn't seem affordable.

 

[OhWee]

A lot of good info in this thread, Thanks.

I wish the interactive licenses were cheaper though, seems WAY overpriced at the moment, from what i can tell it would cost around $200 in interactive licenses alone per character. plus the initial $100 for the "starter essentials license".

I'm currently working on a 3D game and the only thing stopping me from publishing the alpha build is me waiting for there to be an interactive license sale that never seems to come. Without some sort of discount it just doesn't seem affordable.

I was going to say 'buy the 'Daz owned content standard interactive license' (whatever it was called), but I see that's no longer a thing. The Genesis base figures each have their own individual interactive licenses now...

So the strategy of staying with 'Daz owned content' so that you'd only need a master interactive license for said content is apparently no longer valid. Which means that things are a LOT more expensive now with Daz owned models, as opposed to the 'older' licensing scheme...

But, I suppose you could just use figures used by say just the Genesis 3 starter essentials, and morph those, as opposed to say using derived figures like Victoria 7, Aiko 7, etc., and using Sickleyield's free morphs on ShareCG for your morphs so that you wouldn't have to pay extra for the Daz store interactive licenses for morph kits sold by Daz. But yeah, I guess that they assume that if you are using the model in a 3D game, you are going to make mucho bucks...

Which just sucks for people doing free mods for games that can use Daz models as ingame figures (as opposed to just static renders).

 

[khumak]

Thank you for the advice. I definitely will. And I'm serious about it. I just haven't figured a name for my account and the game is still early in development. But, once the name is chosen I'll definitely create a Patreon Page, Twitter and Discord account. Also a Thread here with the game for people to critic the shit out of it and allow me to improve the game!! LOL

You might also want to start off doing some mods first. I've noticed that a lot of things I'm doing in Daz get much easier with practice and there's nobody complaining about missed deadlines/etc while you practice. I'm considering trying to make my own game as well but until I buy a new rig more suitable to rendering I'm just going to stick to modding.

 

[Shved]

If Daz is free, and I only use the standard G3 or G8 model in the game, should I buy some kind of license?

 

[Boogie]

If Daz is free, and I only use the standard G3 or G8 model in the game, should I buy some kind of license?

You normally buy assets such as character models, cloths, hair and environments so that you can create the type of still image or animation you want, this is the Standard License. These images or animations you can give away or sell as you like.

If you want to include the actual asset in something that you want to distribute then you need to buy an Interactive License. This means that if you are creating something like a 3D environment with a character moving around the screen under the players control then the character, the cloths, hair and environment are constantly being rerendered on the screen and that requires the Interactive License.

Just creating the type of static image VN most developers are doing does not require the Interactive License.

You can also avoid buying any type of asset if you just use the freebies given away by DAZ and all the other sources on the net, or if you create your own from scratch.

 

[SmolFrog3D]

What happens if someone uses pirated assets (clothes for example) in a VN? Can the asset creator find out if you have bought it or not?

 

[Boogie]

What happens if someone uses pirated assets (clothes for example) in a VN? Can the asset creator find out if you have bought it or not?

The software itself doesn't know the difference between purchased or pirated assets. I am a Platinum Club member with many purchased assets but I also have lots of pirated stuff and they all work together fine. Sometimes I eventually purchase something I had pirated and the installer sees that I have it already and doesn't reinstall it, but if the asset has been updated since the pirate version was spread around, it just tells me there is an updated version ready for download.

I don't have any idea of how many people actually buy stuff but unless something you use has never had anyone actually buy it, there is no way for the creator to know if it was purchased or not. Also, the likelyhood of the creator actually ever seeing your amateur creation is pretty close to zero.

 

[NexTGenioN]

I was going to say 'buy the 'Daz owned content standard interactive license' (whatever it was called), but I see that's no longer a thing. The Genesis base figures each have their own individual interactive licenses now...

So the strategy of staying with 'Daz owned content' so that you'd only need a master interactive license for said content is apparently no longer valid. Which means that things are a LOT more expensive now with Daz owned models, as opposed to the 'older' licensing scheme...

But, I suppose you could just use figures used by say just the Genesis 3 starter essentials, and morph those, as opposed to say using derived figures like Victoria 7, Aiko 7, etc., and using Sickleyield's free morphs on ShareCG for your morphs so that you wouldn't have to pay extra for the Daz store interactive licenses for morph kits sold by Daz. But yeah, I guess that they assume that if you are using the model in a 3D game, you are going to make mucho bucks...

Which just sucks for people doing free mods for games that can use Daz models as ingame figures (as opposed to just static renders).

Very usefull thread thx for info so in DAZ3D u need interactive license only if u gonna create a game in 3D game engine like Unreal Engine, Unity kuz these engines simulate 3D and they think you are going to make a lot of bucks xD but for Ren'py we don't need license kuz this one simulate only 2D dimension right? But how about other sources with free stuff like renderosity where usually are 2 types of license and 2nd one is licensed for non-commercial use only, Non commercial means the same like in daz that we can use their assets only in 2D like Ren'py?

 

[OhWee]

Very usefull thread thx for info so in DAZ3D u need interactive license only if u gonna create a game in 3D game engine like Unreal Engine, Unity kuz these engines simulate 3D and they think you are going to make a lot of bucks xD but for Ren'py we don't need license kuz this one simulate only 2D dimension right? But how about other sources with free stuff like renderosity where usually are 2 types of license and 2nd one is licensed for non-commercial use only, Non commercial means the same like in daz that we can use their assets only in 2D like Ren'py?

Usually, if you are making sure that you are 'covering the legal bases', you probably should steer clear of any freebies that say 'non-commercial use only' or 'personal use only'.

You could reach out to the creator of the freebie in question if you wanted to get permission to use it in your visual novel/Renpy game, to see what fees they might have in mind for such usage. Some creators may simply be happy with a 'thanks to so and so for letting me use their model' in your credits listing, but others may want more...

So this is a judgement call on your part. The creator of the freebie in question may never notice the object in question in your VN in the first place, but that's a 'roll the dice and take your chances' sort of thing.