[Daz] Is my laptop good enough for DAZ3d rendering?

qvrvrqv

New Member
Jul 20, 2018
5
3
Hey,
I want to get into making games with DAZ and Renpy and was wondering if my Laptop is good enough for the renderings and stuff. First, is having a desktop PC necessary? I did some renders and my laptop was heating up like crazy and I was worried that it could damage it.

Here are my Stats:
Graphic: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDEA GeForce GTX 960M
Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-4720HQ CPU @ 2.6 GHZ 2,6 GHZ (Duo Core)
RAM 16 GB
64 bit

Not sure if this is the right place for this topic, I am kinda new here.
Appreciate all help :)

Happy new year folks
 

dave619

Member
Nov 3, 2018
458
181
yea looks all right just try daz 3d and install it and load it up and do a pic and render it see if it works
 
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Conviction07

Active Member
Game Developer
May 6, 2017
774
3,309
Eh, not really. It'll take you forever to render any decent number of images with that gpu. I bought a 1070 ti a few weeks ago and even that I'm not very happy with.
 
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Porcus Dev

Engaged Member
Game Developer
Oct 12, 2017
2,582
4,705
Hey,
I want to get into making games with DAZ and Renpy and was wondering if my Laptop is good enough for the renderings and stuff. First, is having a desktop PC necessary? I did some renders and my laptop was heating up like crazy and I was worried that it could damage it.

Here are my Stats:
Graphic: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDEA GeForce GTX 960M
Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-4720HQ CPU @ 2.6 GHZ 2,6 GHZ (Duo Core)
RAM 16 GB
64 bit

Not sure if this is the right place for this topic, I am kinda new here.
Appreciate all help :)

Happy new year folks
The major problem, if you want to render in Iray, is the VRAM of your 960M... 4GB it's not much, and if you also use W10 the OS will reserve part of this memory; And when the scene to render in DAZ surpasses your VRAM (which it will do in many occasions with only 4GB), the program will use your CPU instead of the GPU, and this is infinitely slower.
 
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Bip

Active Member
Donor
May 4, 2017
737
2,131
For me, forget it.
You will be able to play with DAZ but you will be unable to produce renderings at a rate compatible with the creation of a game. Or, at a very, very, very poor quality.
You don't have the processor or RAM to create "complex" scenes, a 3Delight rendering will take you hours, I'm not even talking about rendering under Iray...

All you have to do now is work on your script while waiting for another Santa Claus :D
 
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User_51567

Guest
Guest
Yeah, not even is it going to take god-awful amount of time with your specs.
But good chance that you are going to brick your Laptop in the process.
 

qvrvrqv

New Member
Jul 20, 2018
5
3
Hey,
thanks for all the fast responses. Would buying an external GPU be enough? Are there any other ways to create graphics that don't need better hardware?
 

kimoo

Active Member
Jun 6, 2017
679
729
Hey,
thanks for all the fast responses. Would buying an external GPU be enough? Are there any other ways to create graphics that don't need better hardware?
why don't you make a scene in daz and render it yourself and see how much time it will take ??
the problem with your requirements that a the scene will take more time from you ..the only problem that you will not be able to make enough renders per month but if you can accept that every thing else is okay

if i were you i won't buy external GPU it's better to continue with your laptop until you are able to buy complete PC
it won't take that much of time anyway depend on the scene believe me you can bear and do it

so simply make a scene and calculate how much time it take then calculate how many render you need per month
you can make more than 100 CG [full HD] per month with this laptop i think
 

79flavors

Well-Known Member
Respected User
Jun 14, 2018
1,611
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I wouldn't read too much into the "no" responses.

Maybe focus on the "Yes, but..." responses for a while.
You asked if your laptop was "good enough"... Yes, but... it'll be slow for complex renders.

But keep in mind that slow is relative.
Since you've no idea what a quicker render might be like... living with slow rendering is okay right now.
Fire it up. Play with it a bit. Make your scenes as easy or hard as you want them to be right now... and see if you're okay with the render times (and how responsive the Daz UI is).
Worst case scenario... You leave your laptop rendering a single scene overnight and when you get up in the morning... and it still hasn't finished.

The other aspect of "good enough" is overall quality. There are all sorts of guides out there about how to improve your rendering quality. Tweaking the settings to improve the image at the cost of time. But the opposite is also true... Do the opposite of what those guides suggest... so that you end up with a "good enough" (but not perfect) rendered image in a much shorter time.

Finally there's the practical side of things. I'm sure you bought (or were given) the best laptop you could get. So until you KNOW you can learn Daz3D and after figuring it out how to use it... you still want to invest time and money into creating your own scenes... stick with what you've got.
I mean... maybe you can't learn Daz (I never did). Maybe even if you can, maybe you don't have what it takes to create useful scenes. Maybe you can create scenes, but can't come up with a story to tell. Or maybe you just get bored with it, once you've messed about with it for a while.

So yes... your laptop is good enough.
 

qvrvrqv

New Member
Jul 20, 2018
5
3
Hey,
I have done a number of small scenes and learned the basics already. It worked fine when there was only one character there and no complicated background, but as soon as I added a full room interior or multiple characters it just never seemed to stop and stayed at 0% if I remember correctly. And I had a lot of problems to get the lighening right so I stopped for a while. Now I wanted to get back into it but I am not sure if I am wasting my time.

I understand that I could just wait longer to get the results and accept poorer quality, but that still could risk overheating my laptop, couldnt it? I need it for other work stuff so I dont want to risk it before asking here.

One example of a render I have done that took like 3 hours I think.


Rana_inbed_1_postpro.jpg
 
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79flavors

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Respected User
Jun 14, 2018
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I understand that I could just wait longer to get the results and accept poorer quality, but that still could risk overheating my laptop, couldnt it? I need it for other work stuff so I dont want to risk it before asking here.
Yup... that is the risk... and only you can know if the risk is worth it for the renders you're hoping to produce.

I've read a number of guides in the past about the level of complexity introduced by adding more objects to a scene. For example... if you put a full room around someone... it still renders the full room, just in case the lamp or the wall behind you needs to be reflected from something in front of you. Hence the exponential increase in render times. Sadly, I don't recall the solutions. But I'm sure someone else can.

As far as your laptop becoming overheated... I would offer up the general advice to not leave it doing anything complex on a flat surface... definitely not on something soft (like a sofa or bed). Prop up the back of the laptop on a book or something. Or go the whole hog and buy a stand which creates a full air gap below the laptop. If you really want to go overboard, place a small desk fan so there is airflow both above and below the laptop... making sure not to blow air directly at any fan which is blowing air OUT of the laptop itself.

All that said... it sounds like you might be interested and competent enough to soon outgrow your laptop, if you haven't already. At that stage, I've got to mirror what others in this thread have said and suggest a full blown PC with a high end graphics card (or two mid tier cards). Which is a lot of money to spend on a hobby that you've already taken a break from once. Your money... your call.
 

kimoo

Active Member
Jun 6, 2017
679
729
but that still could risk overheating my laptop, couldnt it?
believe it or not iam rendering on my laptop too iam out of my country right now iam living with some friend in another country so i cannot take my pc with me of course i have to take my laptop that is lower than yours [more than you could even think ]

but unlike you i take risks at first then i started to monitor the heat there are alot of softwares to use that can warn you
and unlike you iam not working on a game so i don't have a problem to wait for my render
 

p_staker

Newbie
Mar 31, 2018
56
36
Hey,
I want to get into making games with DAZ and Renpy and was wondering if my Laptop is good enough for the renderings and stuff. First, is having a desktop PC necessary? I did some renders and my laptop was heating up like crazy and I was worried that it could damage it.

Here are my Stats:
Graphic: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 & NVIDEA GeForce GTX 960M
Processor: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-4720HQ CPU @ 2.6 GHZ 2,6 GHZ (Duo Core)
RAM 16 GB
64 bit
We have about the same setup (i7 4712MQ and 940M) and I've not have any major problems yet.

Hey,
I have done a number of small scenes and learned the basics already. It worked fine when there was only one character there and no complicated background, but as soon as I added a full room interior or multiple characters it just never seemed to stop and stayed at 0% if I remember correctly. And I had a lot of problems to get the lighening right so I stopped for a while. Now I wanted to get back into it but I am not sure if I am wasting my time.

I understand that I could just wait longer to get the results and accept poorer quality, but that still could risk overheating my laptop, couldnt it? I need it for other work stuff so I dont want to risk it before asking here.

One example of a render I have done that took like 3 hours I think.
You have to learn to get Daz and Iray to do what you want and how to work inside the limitations of your current hardware.


For example, the developer of Reincarnotica has used some very old hardware for all of their game so far.


I think they stated that they are rendering the background and figures separately then using Photoshop layers to assemble them.

Here is where someone asks about the card the developer is using


That they are getting that kind of quality out that hardware is amazing.
 

p_staker

Newbie
Mar 31, 2018
56
36
For help on lighting have a look at these videos.



It's a good general Daz Studio lighting tutorial and a great 3Dlight/UberEnvironment tutorial.

Some of the LuxRender stuff is helpful for Iray. The concepts are the same, Iray just handles them a bit differently.
 
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Jobeo

Member
Game Developer
Jul 4, 2017
482
3,215
It worked fine when there was only one character there and no complicated background, but as soon as I added a full room interior or multiple characters it just never seemed to stop and stayed at 0% if I remember correctly.
The log is your friend. Go Help -> Troubleshooting -> View Log File

It will usually tell you what error has happened and where things went wrong.
 

lancelotdulak

Active Member
Nov 7, 2018
556
557
I really hate anyone telling people they cant do something. Especially the ones who by their own admission dont /cant do it.
Any computer CAN work. a lot of 3d devs buy old servers to build render farms. i almost bought an old dual cpu 64 core xeon server for just that.

1. There are a LOT of tricks to lower render time and make daz workable on even lower end computers. Theres a setting in the gui for example that will switch to wireframe or whatever whenever you move your view. There are tools like decimator to radically decrease mesh complexity. You can eliminate anything in the scene that you dont actually see. And you can go through the textures and get rid of the things that dont matter. I dont do all that because im lazy.
2. You need a cooling mat or fans for your computer. honestly anyone with a laptop does. Id actually suggest getting a few old desktop cooling fans and a plugin 12v power supply and hook them up (theyre just motors and its just electricity. it's not voodoo). They'll supply hella more air than any mat cooler ive ever seen..
3. Go to your cpu and gpu manufacturers websites and download all their tools. It's totally legit to UNDER clock a cpu/gpu. I have a ryzen 1700x system with a gtx 1060 and a dual fan liquid cooling system. But it's not overclocked (i oc the gpu a tiny bit sometimes). If i were rendering videos id overclock it. But to build a scene and spend 5 minutes to a couple hourse to render it.. meh. Im doing other things anyway.

4. Your computer is PLENTY fast for any API . Like unity, unreal engine, visual studio.. and for python well.. it's a scripting language....... (most programmers dont really consider scripting languages 'real languages')
5. You dont have to render on your computer. You can do it on the cloud. I think there are tutorials here on how to set up amazons free cloud service to do it . Id probably do that if i were making long videos aka movies.

Im not an amazing 3d guy.. im a programmer. but ive been playing with it since the time when Autocad ruled 3d and design, rhino was the most badass serious 3d software on the market, and if you wanted to do 3d programming you forked out maybe $150 for 3dsmax (thinks have... changed). And imho the important part isnt the rendering.. it's building your scenes, animations etc. Perfecting everything. Writing your story in the case of games.

So yess you can certainly do it. Try to remember back in the day we used freeware, built whatever over hours or days, clicked render and went to bed. For something your computer renders in realtime now. It's all about adjusting your workflow and expectations. Yes.. my desktop will slaughter yours when it comes to rendering. But that's irrelevant if you build better scenes than i do.

Go do steps one and two. install daz. make a simple scene and see what it does to your computers temps. if it's fine go watch videos on speeding up the daz UI and make some stuff. If you enjoy it enough you WILL find a way over time to build some hardware. And honestly.. you can buy old xeon servers from $100 to $500 and stack them up. These are servers with CPU's in them that cost $10k when they were first built....
 

OhWee

Forum Fanatic
Modder
Game Developer
Jun 17, 2017
5,889
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OK, I learned Daz Studio on a laptop that was even less suited for the task than yours (no integrated Nvidia graphics, it has Radeon graphics). I'm actually typing this on that very laptop right now, thanks to the recent failure of the bios/motherboard on my other 'uber' laptop...

It IS possible to make do with a lower end laptop or perhaps a lower end desktop system, but it is not recommended. There's also the possibility of eventual failure of the components. In my case, I upgraded to a high end gaming laptop and the failure wasn't heat related, but the point is that MOST of said uber laptop is now useless thanks to one critical component (thie BIOS/Motherboard) failing. I may be able to scavenge the blu-ray drive, ram maybe, and the two drives (HDD/SSD), but the onboard graphics are now useless to me.

---

My POINT in sharing this is you should ask yourself, how important is this laptop to you, and can you easily replace it if it fails thanks to the added wear and tear of rendering?

If the answer to that question is no, then you need to look at building a rendering computer. There are a few threads about that, but right now by far the most expensive component for that is going to be the GPU. Most of us would recommend an 8 GB Nvidia card as a minimum, and 1080 Ti's are about your best bet except for the price (they are near 2080 Ti territory at the moment). You can make do with a 6 GB, but you'll be going 'CPU Only' a lot more than you'd like. Even with my 8 GB 1080s, this happened often enough that I had to trim down the textures and maybe even the number of items in a scene.

Some people do make do with 4 GB cards to start with. The key here is to render your characters separately from the scene in the background, to increase your chances to be able to fit the Iray scene inside of your graphics card. The lighting might not match exactly, but most people may not notice in a number of cases. There are also a number of games (mostly RPG Maker games, but a number of Renpy games as well) that superimpose the characters over backgrounds. Katie's Corruption did this a lot (a Renpy example), and while he did render a few scenes with backgrounds included in the later parts of the game, he still did the superimpose images thing a lot, right up to when he abandoned the game.

Your other option is 3Delight, for which you should get the beefiest CPU you can afford, since it doesn't use the graphics card for rendering. Most products for Daz these days favor Iray rendering though, but it is an option if you want a different look than what you often see around here in the art threads and in many 'Daz character centered' games.

You mentioned a third option - an external GPU enclosure. IF your laptop has a thunderbolt port, this can be a viable option for Iray rendering, but I'm doubtful based on the specs you mentioned. A couple of developers around here have mentioned doing this. There might be a USB 3.0 enclosure somewhere, but everything I've seen lately is built around Thunderbolt. If you are going to need to buy a thunderbolt laptop (i.e. if you current laptop doesn't have TBolt), you might as well build a rendering station. It'll be cheaper than a second laptop, and then you won't need an external GPU enclusure anymore, since you now have a rendering station.

IF you DO have a TBolt port, then an external enclosure is an option. The only question then is, would you be better off spending a few hundred extra dollars for a full computer instead?

There are also rendering farm services that can do the rendering for you in the cloud, but I'm not sure how they'd feel about you rendering a bunch of porn on their servers. My concern here is that you are leaving a 'trail' on servers that you don't own... others can comment on whether they use these, and what their experience has been.

---

Hopefully this is helpful to you. Unless you have a usage model that heavily favors laptops, yeah you'll be better off in the long run with a dedicated rendering (desktop) system, but you can make do in the meantime.

I generated a number of renders on this 13" laptop I'm typing on now before eventually upgrading to my now very expensive brick. But it was awesome while it lasted. My usage model heavily favors laptops, but my replacement will be a desktop system.

And if you have a Thunderbolt port on your laptop, and say $300 extra to spare on top of the extra money for a graphics card, yeah eGPU is an option for you.

It all comes down to your hardware budget, which is the strongest determiner of your options. There's always Ebay I suppose, but I'm always leary of used stuff... luck of the draw and all that. If you can't afford a better system, yes you can make do, and at least you have 4 GB of VRAM for Iray renders, so it's not completely impossible. You'll just need to learn how to build scenes to fit those constraints. And of course it'll take longer for those renders. Plus there's the question of eventual laptop failure. You may be able to get a lot of use out of it, or it may fail just when you need it the most... that risk assessment is something you should consider now if you decide to 'stay the course' for now.

I hope that this insight is helpful to you.
OhWee
:)
 

asnaz

Newbie
Feb 6, 2018
92
94
I would like to say definetly yes my laptop is 940mx and my desktop has 1080ti 2700x 16 ram ı would like to say that both work nearly the same for me. Cause the most time you spend in daz is because of posing or thinking rendering is the easiest part with medium pc or laptop. But ıf you wanna render animated or too detailed scenes like presets where you have tons of light and stuff in a room ı spend 15 + minutes with my desktop. If ı want to increase the quality it can take longer but after a certain quality you do not see the difference that much