Daz Daz3D 4k with denoiser or 1080p without denoiser.

[Red991]

Hello. I am starting to work on an AVN and wondered what settings people prefer to render with and what settings I should use.

I was rendering at 1080p with 3-5k samples & after that, I use D&D denoiser. I just tried a 4k with post-denoiser at 100 samples and it took less than what my 1080p(no denoiser) renders usually take, but it was missing the finer details. The image was sharper but the details were missing, it's not a big deal but some of the details on skins and texture got blurred.


Do I save time and go 4k with Denoiser or stick to 1080p? And what do you use to downgrade images to 1080p?

 

[GNVE]

Well it seems its a matter of preference. What do you prefer. Do you like the output of the 4k ones or the 1080p ones more. As for the time it takes: Use down time rendering. even if you don't do anything else you'll need to eat and sleep. Perfect times to render. Use a render queue like Man Fridays Render queue. It will allow you to walk away from your PC while it does the heavy lifting.

 

[MissFortune]

If you're rendering with Post-Denoiser, then there's no need for D&D denoiser. Same goes for the opposite. You're just denoising the denoised image. Which likely only increases the detail loss of the original denoised version.

The idea of 4K is to render detail, and then crunch it down to 1080p, and retain the detail of said 4K. There's going to be very little difference between 4K and 1080 with post-denoiser in most scenarios. The former will probably lose more detail in the denoising, but it's a marginal difference, especially at 100 samples. There's a lot of science and math behind denoisers that many, many people would find massively boring. In laymens, it's basically blurring pixels, and thus resulting in the loss of detail.

Ideally, you always want to render without Daz's in-built denoiser. The big reason is because you lose the noisy copy. What you want is to render the noisy copy > denoise it with D&D > then blend them in PS/Gimp, masking out the noisy parts with the denoised image.

Something like what GNVE offered is going to be the best solution. Render Queue a bunch while you're sleeping, denoise where needed with D&D, and then fix them up in post. It might not be the most ideal (especially if you share a room with your PC in a typically hot part of the world), but it's the best one.

 

[Red991]

Well it seems its a matter of preference. What do you prefer. Do you like the output of the 4k ones or the 1080p ones more. As for the time it takes: Use down time rendering. even if you don't do anything else you'll need to eat and sleep. Perfect times to render. Use a render queue like Man Fridays Render queue. It will allow you to walk away from your PC while it does the heavy lifting.

I will stick to 1080p without post-denoiser. I played around a bit with the numbers and 4k with post denoiser on some scenes just turned out bad. I may do some native 4k but its mostly gonna be 1080p, thx.

 

[Red991]

If you're rendering with Post-Denoiser, then there's no need for D&D denoiser. Same goes for the opposite. You're just denoising the denoised image. Which likely only increases the detail loss of the original denoised version.

The idea of 4K is to render detail, and then crunch it down to 1080p, and retain the detail of said 4K. There's going to be very little difference between 4K and 1080 with post-denoiser in most scenarios. The former will probably lose more detail in the denoising, but it's a marginal difference, especially at 100 samples. There's a lot of science and math behind denoisers that many, many people would find massively boring. In laymens, it's basically blurring pixels, and thus resulting in the loss of detail.

Ideally, you always want to render without Daz's in-built denoiser. The big reason is because you lose the noisy copy. What you want is to render the noisy copy > denoise it with D&D > then blend them in PS/Gimp, masking out the noisy parts with the denoised image.

Something like what GNVE offered is going to be the best solution. Render Queue a bunch while you're sleeping, denoise where needed with D&D, and then fix them up in post. It might not be the most ideal (especially if you share a room with your PC in a typically hot part of the world), but it's the best one.

Hi, yes. 4k with denoiser even at 250 samples just wasn't great. I decided to stick with 1080p at 5000 samples, the loss of texture details with post denoiser was too high and wasn't worth it. I was watching some videos and Reddit posts, and they mentioned that the denoiser helped them save a lot of time, which it indeed does, but for me, I don't think it's worth it.
I think the denoiser will be very useful in animations or animated scenes tho.

I would love to do all scenes in 4k native but it just takes too much time on my system and it wouldn't be efficient.


For now, I will go with 1080p and later use D&D to clean it up a bit, along with some post processing. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to use and render queue due to random power cuts that I get. I do have a backup but it's only enough to turn my system off or do like 5-10 minutes of render at full power. I am okay with doing everything manually for now.

And ya my room gets super hot T_T. I am in for a fun time.

 

[MissFortune]

I think the denoiser will be very useful in animations or animated scenes tho.

100%. It's actually pretty actively recommended to newer devs. 500-700 samples with post-denoiser set to start at about 60 or iterations before the final number (so, for example, you'd set your post-denoiser to start at 640 if you have 700 samples.) is often the default for animations.

For now, I will go with 1080p and later use D&D to clean it up a bit, along with some post processing. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to use and render queue due to random power cuts that I get. I do have a backup but it's only enough to turn my system off or do like 5-10 minutes of render at full power. I am okay with doing everything manually for now.

And ya my room gets super hot T_T. I am in for a fun time.

Yeah, power issues for this kind of stuff sucks hard. Had a bad socket at my previous apartment that would suddenly power off with the slightest vibration. Had to move my entire room around to use a working socket.

I'm no stranger to heat myself. In the southern US, basically sits around 85/90 degrees Fahrenheit at night during the peak summer months. Might be worth setting a small fan by your door to circulate and kick some of the hot air out.

 

[felldude]

Show hidden options and do your own research, Daz has a lot of high end features hidden because it is a tool marketed to entry level users.

PSF in particular is useful for videos, their is also Screen Space GI for quick and dirty.

 

[Nicke]

100%. It's actually pretty actively recommended to newer devs. 500-700 samples with post-denoiser set to start at about 60 or iterations before the final number (so, for example, you'd set your post-denoiser to start at 640 if you have 700 samples.) is often the default for animations.

My own testing claims that both render time and end result is unchanged by when you start the post-denoiser. What happens on your end if you start the post-denoiser later?

 

[CrimsonQuill]

I personally use topaz denoise AI and it's significantly better than the built in denoiser. It saves and recovers original detail and has a sharpen feature. I would suggest looking buying that or sailing the seas like I did. 1080p with topaz denoise will look just fine.

 

[MissFortune]

My own testing claims that both render time and end result is unchanged by when you start the post-denoiser. What happens on your end if you start the post-denoiser later?

There's usually very little difference in the end result, especially with that low of a sample number. But it allows any parts of the image that don't need to be denoised (e.g. a lighter part of skin, for example) before the denoiser kicks in, leaving those parts alone. But for the general viewer, there's no real difference. I'm just regurgitating what's been told to me.

I personally use topaz denoise AI and it's significantly better than the built in denoiser. It saves and recovers original detail and has a sharpen feature. I would suggest looking buying that or sailing the seas like I did. 1080p with topaz denoise will look just fine.

Topaz is pretty overkill for this kind of stuff. It's usually meant for high-ISO photography (which comes with a lot of noise, usually.) and astrophotography. I didn't really notice much difference between Topaz and Taosoft's free D&D denoisers when I compared them. But I'm also usually rendering in native 4K with noisy spots as opposed to noisy renders.