Daz daz3d gen8 or gen 9 on a low pc? and any starter content tips?

JFSebastian81

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Mar 29, 2024
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i just startet playing around with daz to make a novel just for me
i read that gen9 need more pc power than gen8

my specs are
ryzen 7 1800x, ddr4-3200 16gb (i want upgrade this) and a 1080gtx 8gb.

should i focus on gen9 because newer and better or gen8.1. because gen9 brings my pc fast to the limit
i want scenes with more then 5 models sometimes inclusive an enviroment (room with many things) and maybe short animations.


wich starter content (lights, poses, etc.) is recommend for an adult novel?
 

felldude

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Aug 26, 2017
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Welcome to Daz3d (20+ year user here Since Poser 3)

G9 is about double the size of G8, however you can lower the Sub-D to base on charterers in the distance to reduce V-Ram usage I would just see what free content is currently available for either that suites your needs and start there.

With your specs you should have no issues rendering multiple subjects and still fitting your scene into V-Ram.

I have even imported this which is millions of polygons into Daz with no issues at 4k (It takes a few minutes to import and convert)
(Note Daz will reduce your texture sizes to 1024x1024 without telling with default settings)

If your computer can render the then it should handle multiple characters no problem (Just don't turn the Sub-D level up)
And hit sub-D on the Orca content if you want a hard freeze lol
 
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drapak12

Member
Jul 7, 2018
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i just startet playing around with daz to make a novel just for me
i read that gen9 need more pc power than gen8

my specs are
ryzen 7 1800x, ddr4-3200 16gb (i want upgrade this) and a 1080gtx 8gb.

should i focus on gen9 because newer and better or gen8.1. because gen9 brings my pc fast to the limit
i want scenes with more then 5 models sometimes inclusive an enviroment (room with many things) and maybe short animations.


wich starter content (lights, poses, etc.) is recommend for an adult novel?
G8 has many mophs which can improve poses and make it more realistic. G9 has better basic joints and jmc, but atm most NSFW scenes with 9 are weird. Other hand there is plenty of renders with G8 posed against physic and anatomy (it does not mean that boobs or penis is too big - it is acceptable and desired on this forum ;)).
You should choose figures according your skill not computer spec. Scene with 5 models usually contains only 1 or 2 models which should be redered in high subd. Figures far from camera can be redered in subd 0-2.
 
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GNVE

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Jul 20, 2018
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Calling your PC low end is a bit of a stretch. A little older maybe but I started rendering with lower specs.
I would agree with you that upgrading your RAM is the best course of action. I went from 24 GB (one defective stick :cry: ) to 64GB and it makes operating daz a lot smoother and quicker even with large scenes. You can also still use your PC while it is rendering.
As for whether to use gen 8 or 9. I'm not sure. If you only want to render small scenes with 2 or 3 characters go with 9. If you want to render larger scenes with 5 or more characters maybe 8 is better (even more characters maybe even look at gen 3 oh and also: don't... thank me later.)
If cost is a consideration then the older you go the higher and more often there are discounts. (Though the discounts have worsened in the last year t.b.h.) I wouldn't go older then gen 3 though.
Last to consider is amount of stuff made for a particular generation. The available library for gen 8 is bigger then for gen 9. Of course gen 9 will catch up eventually but for now gen 8 and 3 are king there. Though that being said: If you really need X and only gen Y has X then go with gen Y. (E.g. you want a Star Trek game Gen 9 is your man at least on the official store)
 

Turning Tricks

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Apr 9, 2022
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I made two games with a system that has a budget Intel CPU (compared to your higher-end Ryzen) and a 4GB 1050Ti GPU, and 99% of my renders had to be CPU rendered. One game of mine is mainly G8/G8.1 and the other is all G9.

So, ya... you can easily make a game with G8 or G9 characters. You just need to learn all the tips and tricks to operate at the low end of the specs.

Upgrade your system memory to 32Gb at least though. 16GB is nothing, nowadays. And it helps you multi-task while running DAZ.

As for rendering with a lower end system... learn to layer your scenes. Do backgrounds separately, then render the Genesis characters alone and layer them on top. Use Dome (Not drawn) and Scene with a Ground Plane to generate shadows that can be layered over top of your backgrounds. Learn to use the Spot Rendering feature of Daz... it's a life changer for people who can't render a full frame scene in one pass!

Just as an example.. a typical 1080p render where you have multiple characters in a reasonably complex inside environment, lighted with Ghost Lights and other lighting, can easily take you hours on a system like yours. But if you do the environment separate - you can run it at night using Batch Render. Run it for 2000 iterations or so (~ 1-2 hours). Then run that through a denoiser, like the one. Then render the characters alone, using regular 3 point lighting and they will probably render out in under 30 minutes and look much sharper. Then you can do several poses on the same background image.

Learn different lighting techniques and experiment! I can't stress this enough as lighting is probably the #1 biggest influence on how fast you can cook a render.

Fastest way to light a scene is using HDRI domes, and Ghost lights are great for large amounts of light and are easy to use, but they really make DAZ work when it comes time to render them. Personally, I prefer traditional 3-point lighting for all my characters and I play with temperature to make scenes warmer or colder. I also adjust the size of the lights to make then sharper or more soft. And learning how to apply emissive surfaces to objects is another technique for doing nice effects.

As you probably already guessed from reading what I wrote so far, you need to also learn how to use an image editor of some sort. One that lets you use layers. I use Photoshop, but many people like GIMP, because it's free. But if you want to use DAZ with a lower end system, you have to be able to post process in an editor.

As for the G8 vs G9 debate, I decided to switch to G9 with my last project. I like working with the newest generation and honestly, all the assets coming out nowadays are NEW! It's hilarious how many games on F95 have some clothes and hair that are so well known and used that you feel like you are seeing characters doing cameos in other games, lol.

G8 still has the larger library, true... but G9 is catching up, and the skin textures and realism of some of the G9 characters now is amazing. Personally, I don't feel like the G9's bloat any scenes on their own .... in fact, it's almost always the environment that can get out of control and bloat your scenes. I have hundreds of scenes with 2 and 3 G9's and they usually equate to DUF file sizes of between 10-20 MB's and when rendering, around 10GB of VRAM or so. But when I put them in a complex environment like the off the shelf apartments, for example, your DUF files can easily bloat to 100MB and more, with the hundreds of 4K textures those environments load in with. That's where scripts like Scene Optimizer can help you. I never really used that script though.. instead, I layered my renders like I outlined above instead.
 

MissFortune

I Was Once, Possibly, Maybe, Perhaps… A Harem King
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in fact, it's almost always the environment that can get out of control and bloat your scenes.
Clothes area sneaky one, too. Some vendors/PAs are dropping in 8K textures without mentioning anything. Went from like 8GB of VRAM being used to 13-ish just adding an outfit. Seems to be mostly be more of a problem with G9 stuff, from my experience.
 

Turning Tricks

Rendering Fantasies
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Apr 9, 2022
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Clothes area sneaky one, too. Some vendors/PAs are dropping in 8K textures without mentioning anything. Went from like 8GB of VRAM being used to 13-ish just adding an outfit. Seems to be mostly be more of a problem with G9 stuff, from my experience.

I forgot to add in my post above... Those bloated environments and also hair assets, tend to be the ones that really slow down your viewport. A lot of hair asset creators add a "Preview ON/Off" feature that helps while you are setting your scenes up, but honestly, it's just easier to hide the hair when working in the viewport, then un-hide it when rendering. Same for the environments. Drop those thousand-piece environments into a single Group and then hide that when posing your characters, and your viewport will be fast and smooth.
 

JFSebastian81

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Mar 29, 2024
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thx for the replys and tips.
Calling your PC low end is a bit of a stretch.
i read some forums and sometimes they say for gen 9 you need min. 3060 and such things.


i go for gen 8 now, i understand the pc not prevent gen 9 but the content is bigger in gen 8. had a hard time find some casual wear for gen 9 that i like. (somtimes im a bit picky)

is there a way to better organize daz3d?
like when i search pants i get a folder with all the pants, sorted after artist is a bit annoying
 

drapak12

Member
Jul 7, 2018
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294
(...)
As for the G8 vs G9 debate, I decided to switch to G9 with my last project. I like working with the newest generation and honestly, all the assets coming out nowadays are NEW! It's hilarious how many games on F95 have some clothes and hair that are so well known and used that you feel like you are seeing characters doing cameos in other games, lol.
(...)
True. I'm bored with hundreds of clones P3DA face and full body voluptuous. Looks hot but really boring.
Unfortunately G9 has no zev0 bend morphs. All models in porn scene look terrible without this addon. Anyway I see many renders here and most games where G8F bending and spreading legs with default jmc only (n).

thx for the replys and tips.

i read some forums and sometimes they say for gen 9 you need min. 3060 and such things.


i go for gen 8 now, i understand the pc not prevent gen 9 but the content is bigger in gen 8. had a hard time find some casual wear for gen 9 that i like. (somtimes im a bit picky)

is there a way to better organize daz3d?
like when i search pants i get a folder with all the pants, sorted after artist is a bit annoying
Sorting by vendors sounds ok. It is hard to adjust different clothes to each other. For example shirt and pants usually have "fit" morph which let you put shirt inside or over pant. Different vendors, different sets combined together cause pokethru. Moreover material styles are different. Weighted and metal/rough shaders of cotton fabric looks weird. Other shader setting are important as well.
 

felldude

Member
Aug 26, 2017
457
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It can be slightly more work but the game ready free content that is out their is impressive.

I usually just pop them in blender and convert to an obj file with materials saved and grouped but you can just import and scale the FBX to 25000%

The Bistro Scene from Amazon has about 1000 free models alone in it. You can take just one of them hit Convert to Sub-D and you have a high quality close up model ready to go.

Or do like I did in this image and use as is with slight tweaking. (The base model is only 100MB however the textures are over 1GB and pretty well optimized as DDS)

Light is 100W and too bright for the scene, but I just did this quick and dirty.
Everything had the Uber shader applied and Cutout opacity textures removed (They cause issues)
The Glasses where set to the Glass shader

That's it took me a few minutes to setup and render.
The green is from to high a reflective surface on the light

250IT@2.5ITs.png
 
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Turning Tricks

Rendering Fantasies
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It can be slightly more work but the game ready free content that is out their is impressive.
Ya, I have used several nice free assets I found on places like SketchFab and GrabCAD. I'm a total noob with Blender, but I followed the youtube tutorials to convert the .obj files to a format DAZ can load, and then I add the textures and surfaces manually. I've made a few motorcycles, shop tools, and anything else that adds character and makes your VN stand out from all the others that just load assets in that everyone has seen a million times.
 
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felldude

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Ya, I have used several nice free assets I found on places like SketchFab and GrabCAD. I'm a total noob with Blender, but I followed the youtube tutorials to convert the .obj files to a format DAZ can load, and then I add the textures and surfaces manually. I've made a few motorcycles, shop tools, and anything else that adds character and makes your VN stand out from all the others that just load assets in that everyone has seen a million times.
Nice thing about FBX is you can direct import into Daz3d, I don't have a script to batch scale the scene so I go into blender and export it as an obj.

If done correctly all the materials will correctly applied.
Which is good if you see the list on the scene I am using.

66.jpg
67.jpg

Daz supports DDS but seems to have an issue with using the transparency as a cutout their might be workaround to use the pink (Alpha channel) as Black but I just make a png.
 
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xell_

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Aug 22, 2017
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i just startet playing around with daz to make a novel just for me
i read that gen9 need more pc power than gen8

my specs are
ryzen 7 1800x, ddr4-3200 16gb (i want upgrade this) and a 1080gtx 8gb.

should i focus on gen9 because newer and better or gen8.1. because gen9 brings my pc fast to the limit
i want scenes with more then 5 models sometimes inclusive an enviroment (room with many things) and maybe short animations.


wich starter content (lights, poses, etc.) is recommend for an adult novel?
Im not sure if im correct but using gen9 is too heavy when you are creating a scene with 2-3 people. It fills your vram too quickly basically. Go with g8 for side characters and 8.1 for main characters because 8.1 gives you more options for expressions. You need to download all 8.1 characters you can find to have many expression options.
Edit; i have rtx4080 i dont plan to use gen9 anytime soon, its basicallly not efficient and fast enough for me
 
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MissFortune

I Was Once, Possibly, Maybe, Perhaps… A Harem King
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Edit; i have rtx4080 i dont plan to use gen9 anytime soon, its basicallly not efficient and fast enough for me
From my experience, though, Genesis 9 is far faster 8/8.1 in render times. So, depending on the type of VN, it might be worth it to a certain dev.
 

xell_

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Aug 22, 2017
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From my experience, though, Genesis 9 is far faster 8/8.1 in render times. So, depending on the type of VN, it might be worth it to a certain dev.
i dont know about the fast part but I would say it takes up a lot of memory especially when its fully clothed. it may be good if you render only 1 figure but 2 or more figure + enviroment can be too heavy for most graphic cards. I had some scenes where I used genesis 9, but I had to hide almost every part of the figure in order to render it. But im not expert about this so it was something I've experienced before
 

no_more_name

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Mar 3, 2024
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From my experience, though, Genesis 9 is far faster 8/8.1 in render times. So, depending on the type of VN, it might be worth it to a certain dev.
It's not really g9 tho, even if uv are better optimized (never really used it, I need to see how bad/good uv streching is).
Any skins that use PBRSkin (not in a retarded manner) should be faster to render (so 8.1/9 basically).

PBRSkin is kinda UberShader light for skin. More likely rely on micro-details maps (1k*1k) and/or usual full normals like modern game engine (more or less). No more fully baked bumps, but you can still use them if you want to/have some. Dead weight layers for skin lifted: gloss, emissive, PBR|Glossiness(g3)/Weighted (those are two others fully fledged shaders within UberShader even you don't use it). Simplified and corrected SSS (scatter only, no more transmit, no more monochrome channel, no more bleeding red).

Only reason I do not really use PBRSkin as much as I should is because they also removed Fresnel on the Top Coat (which I find criminal as they kept Metallic flakes for make-up purpose). That said it's not illogic as they move framework from bump maps, just sad.

All in all, a good balanced skin using PBRSkin should be your choice if your computer can't take that much.
 
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MissFortune

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It's not really g9 tho, even if uv are better optimized (never really used it, I need to see how bad/good uv streching is).
Any skins that use PBRSkin (not in a retarded manner) should be faster to render (so 8.1/9 basically).
Did a few side by side renders for some of the main line figures (Dain, Victoria 8/8.1/9, Michael 8/8.1/9, etc.). The 9's were close to 10 minutes faster under the same scene/render settings (90's Room, 4000 iterations, Max Sec is 0, Rendering Quality off, etc. Rendering with two 4090s). Less so for 8.1, obviously (think it was closer to 6? Could've been less.). Maybe it's just the scene/lighting and how they're interacting with the figures or something, but it's rendering notably faster than 8.1 for me (which I use almost exclusively in my VN). The difference between them is marginal for how I work, but there all the same.
 

no_more_name

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Did a few side by side renders for some of the main line figures (Dain, Victoria 8/8.1/9, Michael 8/8.1/9, etc.). The 9's were close to 10 minutes faster under the same scene/render settings (90's Room, 4000 iterations, Max Sec is 0, Rendering Quality off, etc. Rendering with two 4090s). Less so for 8.1, obviously (think it was closer to 6? Could've been less.). Maybe it's just the scene/lighting and how they're interacting with the figures or something, but it's rendering notably faster than 8.1 for me (which I use almost exclusively in my VN). The difference between them is marginal for how I work, but there all the same.
I'm no familiar with g9 but more likely due to uv mapping, that's why I talk about stretching (main concern) -> less regions to render compensated with higher polys (they also split eyes and mouth materials). From what I saw from Victoria 9 it's quite a good trade (in fact very good so far).

Some people may argue fully fledged bump>micro details maps, yada yada UberShader>PBRSkin. While true in theory, absolutely not in practice (especially for a VN). And I say that as someone who deal with 8k/16k bump maps. It's perfectly fine to balance over micro details maps and it brings awesome results.
 
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felldude

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Did a few side by side renders for some of the main line figures (Dain, Victoria 8/8.1/9, Michael 8/8.1/9, etc.). The 9's were close to 10 minutes faster under the same scene/render settings (90's Room, 4000 iterations, Max Sec is 0, Rendering Quality off, etc. Rendering with two 4090s). Less so for 8.1, obviously (think it was closer to 6? Could've been less.). Maybe it's just the scene/lighting and how they're interacting with the figures or something, but it's rendering notably faster than 8.1 for me (which I use almost exclusively in my VN). The difference between them is marginal for how I work, but there all the same.
I started out being a bit dismissive/skeptical of your findings, but before I commented I did a test.

Base Daz3D render and lighting settings at 8196x8196

Base Daz3D Genesis8.1 Female (Sub-D where also default)
3 seconds Per IT
Vram usage 7.1GB

Base Daz3d Genesis 9 with Normal maps. (Sub-D was also default)
6 seconds per IT
VRam was 8.0GB and likely higher but it capped my card.

I was so close on VRAM use that it likely caused a CPU offload which happens to a lot of users.
And thought wow G8 is twice as fast as G9 however when I fit the scene into VRAM by rendering without textures.
G8 and G9 where around the same speed even at 8k

G8 is at Sub-D 2 by default 45MB
G9 comes in at 76MB (250MB at SubD-3)

That is around a 200MB difference per character (Because of the Sub-D difference)

With 5 characters in a scene if you left G9 at default compared to G8 that would be 1GB of VRAM use MORE then G8.
But at Sub-D 2 it is only 155MB more

SUB-D level 3 by default is the likely cause of the G8 is faster then G9
With multiple characters the difference turns into GIGABYTES of VRAM use.
 
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drapak12

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I'm no familiar with g9 but more likely due to uv mapping, that's why I talk about stretching (main concern) -> less regions to render compensated with higher polys (they also split eyes and mouth materials). From what I saw from Victoria 9 it's quite a good trade (in fact very good so far).
Separate eyes and mouth make customizing model difficult. It is harder to fix center and joints of conformed figure. I think it was intentional - you rather buy new model then create your own.

I started out being a bit dismissive/skeptical of your findings, but before I commented I did a test.

Base Daz3D render and lighting settings at 8196x8196

Base Daz3D Genesis8.1 Female (Sub-D where also default)
3 seconds Per IT
Vram usage 7.1GB

Base Daz3d Genesis 9 with Normal maps. (Sub-D was also default)
6 seconds per IT
VRam was 8.0GB and likely higher but it capped my card.

So G9 was taking twice as long, further testing:

Could be what no_more_name was saying about the UV's as Genesis 9 slightly out performed Genesis 8.1 when I ran the same test as above without the textures applied.

G9 was 1.46 IT/s at 8k
G8.1 was 1.37 IT/s at 8k

Or it could just be that if the scene cant fit into V-RAM it is causing a CPU load

I was able to render a scene in 2k with 10 G9 models faster then one G9 at 8k
View attachment 3539224
What does mean default SubD?
I know that your render was only sample and test, but in such scenes SubD can be 1. Anyway difference is about 7,5%.
Moreover I checked few G9 figures. Most of them used png textures. It is easy to convert them to jpg with desired resolution (it take some time and require manual replacing files in material setting but is easy).
I've tested micro-detail and they are not layed correct. I do not understant how they work and I can be wrong, but I guess it a overlay bump/normal (similar to PBR) but with additional tile scale settting. Seems to be just plain texture not adjusted to UV map.

BTW I tried to obtain 3d procedural texture visible on 2d mapped areas. (It was much easier with 3dl) For example turbulence/noise multiplication can give goosebump effect (it is 3d procedural then not stretching problem), greyscale map shows are where goosebump is applied. Unfortunately iray bricks are annoying and too difficult for me.