Daz3D hardware question.

OhWee

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In a word, wow.
Just re-read that quad Xeon result I posted. Apparently there are dual K6000's in play with that quad Xeon setup. The 17 seconds suddenly makes a lot more sense. I'd love to see how the quad Xeon's did by themselves (64 cores).
 

Bip

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Otherwise, you take a computer like mine and you have plenty of time to do... something else...
:closedeyesmile:

Daz3D Progress.png
 

Morpheus668

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Jun 22, 2017
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so I come back to this thread and see talks of eleventy billion dollar systems. and im like

im over here scrambling to get my sys back to rendering shape. its main use was gaming PC. I just started doing this daz stuff for shits and giggles.
currently stuck with a 3770k / 16Gb ram / and a half dead MB(currently have a replacement on order just to get it so I can run a GPU)
I have a RX 480 and a 1070 sitting in boxes now so im thinking for starters getting 16Gb DDR4 and a intel 370 board then get a 8700 if/when they ever become avail.
first prob being $$. prob gonna have to piece it together a part every few weeks, then when bonus check comes in, grab the CPU(if anybody even has it in stock.
course this will all fuck me over when a part I buy in the beginning is bad but i wont know that till months later when i get everything else and try to put it all together.
 

OhWee

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so I come back to this thread and see talks of eleventy billion dollar systems. and im like

im over here scrambling to get my sys back to rendering shape. its main use was gaming PC. I just started doing this daz stuff for shits and giggles.
currently stuck with a 3770k / 16Gb ram / and a half dead MB(currently have a replacement on order just to get it so I can run a GPU)
I have a RX 480 and a 1070 sitting in boxes now so im thinking for starters getting 16Gb DDR4 and a intel 370 board then get a 8700 if/when they ever become avail.
first prob being $$. prob gonna have to piece it together a part every few weeks, then when bonus check comes in, grab the CPU(if anybody even has it in stock.
course this will all fuck me over when a part I buy in the beginning is bad but i wont know that till months later when i get everything else and try to put it all together.
So, I know we've been talking about a broad spectrum of products here, from the midrange to ultra high end, but really I think that you can do Daz on a lot of the lower-mid range systems just fine, you just have to accept that things will take longer, and set your ambition levels accordingly.

I spent the first six months learning Daz on a 13" quad core laptop that had integrated AMD graphics (so no Iray Nvidia boost for me) and 16GB of memory. I think I managed just fine, and learned a lot of stuff in that limited environment. So even with what you have now, I think you can do just fine.

I'd definitely recommend getting an NVidia graphics card as your budget allows. It doesn't HAVE to be a 1080 Ti, you can actually put together some fairly nice basic scenes with even just 2 GB of graphics memory, as long as you render the characters separately from the background, and in some cases might get away with the background too. Worst case, the render drops to CPU only and you'll still get it done, it'll just take longer... Keep in mind that you could use stock (royalty-free) photos for the background (you know, where RenPy places the chaaracters on top of the background), or render the backgrounds separately if you have them.

So, yeah, I think an upgrade strategy is awesome, and working out one that fits your budget is very important. But don't feel like since we are talking about Quad 1080 Tis that you HAVE to have that to do stuff in Daz. It's nicer and much faster yes, but you can do fine without them.

Really, dual 1080 Tis and a good 8 core processor can do you just fine once you can afford that, anything more than that is kinda just showing off... sure it'll make things a bit faster, but, dual Nvidia GPUs is the 'sweet spot' in reducing render times in Daz Iray (they don't even have to be 1080s, lesser ones are good too, it's the number and speed of the Cuda cores provides the boost). So that should be your mid-term goal for now. If your Patreon explodes with patrons, THEN it makes more sense to start contemplating 16-18 core CPUs and 4 GPUs...
 

Morpheus668

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Jun 22, 2017
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*bunch of words*
meant to replay back to this the other day but this is how i roll...


anywho...
im aware of all number of "levels" of machines.
sadly im a "champagne wishes and caviar dreams" guy on a pabst and nachos budget :(

that said, the new build is almost done. need to take a trip to chitown tomorrow and hit up micro center for some ram (more on that later)
this whole new build is pretty much a side shift of everything I had. just newer gen and nvidia instead of amd. i went from intel cpu/amd gpu to amd cpu/nvidia gpu.

and got a hand me down case just for the hell of it
went from


to



now im not saying that the cosmos II is large, but, when installing everything I dropped a screw inside it, and it echoed ;)
Linus did a size comparison back when it came out..

as I said earlier, I need to venture out tomorrow and grab some ram. Aside from the gpu, everything else was chosen to cut down on cost and or because I needed it sooner than originally anticipated. now, the old sys has 16Gb ram. If (to cut down on cost) I only get a 8Gb stick tomorrow, how much a difference will it make as apposed to biting the bullet and grabbing 16?
to compare:
old sys:
Intel 3770K
16Gb ram
AMD 8Gb RX480

new sys
AMD R5 1400
?? ram
Nvidia 8Gb GTX 1070

any thoughts?

ETA: oh yeah, forgot the inevitable call to MS to get my copy of win validated since its a new motherboard(well, new everything). only to have them tell me to "fuck off, buy a new copy".
wish me luck!
 
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muttdoggy

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Switch to Ubuntu. :D hopefully daz can work with that and you could render even faster?
 

Morpheus668

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Jun 22, 2017
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I used to have linux on a prior machine in a dual boot set up. years ago.
always had compatibility issues as my pc's are for gaming and it never ended well.
even with steams big push (lol) I dont know how much further its come

ETA: I swear I read Daz does not play well with linux
edit edit: when you build your rig piecemeal, DO NOT go to parts picker and add up what you spent! the sticker shock isnt worth it!
edit edit edit: note to self - now with so many god damned fans, brush up on negative/positive air flow....
 
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Cyan

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Jul 25, 2017
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Why are you switching systems?

3770k > r5 1400, by about ~10% give or take.

The 1070 is naturally quite a bit better than the 480, but you could just as easily put the 1070 into the old system.

Something breaking on the old system?
 

Morpheus668

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Jun 22, 2017
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motherboard died. and being 5 gens old finding a good MB is problematic to say the least.

ETA: im also well aware of where new sys stacks up to old sys. but when you have no money to a full sys swap and your using rent money to fund a new sys...
plus, im stil looking to go 8700 at some point but its a gamble if anybody has them in stock and costs twice as much.
 
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Morpheus668

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Jun 22, 2017
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well....

and of course my copy of windows is no longer valid (but I knew that was gonna happen)
 

RomanHume

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It all comes down to budget.

Also if you are planning on going the Iray route (preferred by a number of Daz PA's) or 3Delight.

The 1080 Ti is an awesome choice, due to it's 11 GB of onboard memory, and it's speed. You can pay almost twice as much for the Titan XP, but you won't see that much of a performance boost (you'd be better off with dual 1080 Ti's). Of course, hopefully the Titan XP's are built to better withstand the abuse of rendering than the regular 1080 Ti's but I haven't come across any real world case evidence for this yet.

If you are running windows 10, keep in mind that you'll lose about 18% of your VRAM to the OS when using Iray. So the bigger cards have a larger amount of VRAM that is 'lost' to the OS... people have been complaining about this to Microsoft (a set amount would make more sense), but so far Microsoft has been blowing this off...

As for CPU, AMD Threadripper is awesome for the value, but of course if you can afford it the i9-7980 XE is a nice choice. Don't sweat running GPU cards at x8 vs x16, multiple benchmarks have shown that currently x16 only gains you a couple of percentage points over x8, so the gain you get from the multiple cards easily offsets that minor loss.

Threadripper has 60 PCIe lanes available (so x16/x8/x16/x8), but the i9-7980 can do just fine with it's 44 PCIe lanes (4 cards at x8 each, with maybe one at x16).

The trick is to find a motherboard that can support 4 (double width) graphics cards, especially for the X299. And pay attention to any 'headers' which might be next to a PCIe slot, making them 'unavailable' if a double width GPU card is in that slot.

2 GPUs gains you just shy of a 50% reduction in rendering speed. 3 cards will drop it almost to a third, and of course 4 cards will drop it to about a quarter AS LONG AS the scene can fit inside the GPU memory for EACH card (i.e. the memory doesn't 'stack', the scene has to fit into each card involved). So it's diminishing returns after the second GPU.

The high end 'pro' GPU cards are interesting, but of course cost serious bucks...

Having a 'spare' GPU to run the monitor while you are rendering is good advice. The onboard IGP (if your CPU has one) can do this too, as long as your bios allows it (most should, but can't hurt to double check).

The number of cores in your CPU normally won't really come into play UNLESS the scene can't fit inside of graphics memory, at which point the more cores the better! Or if you are using 3Delight, which relies on CPU cores.

A good SSD or NVMe drive is probably a good choice for the 'OS' disk, but also get a large HDD to store stuff on. 4 TB+ HDD's are pretty cheap these days. 64 GB of memory should be more than enough (some would argue that 32 GB is plenty). I'm running an 8 GB ramdisk currently, and have a few of my Daz cache files in the ram disk, which seems to help with performance by a small but very noticeable bit...

Finally, SERIOUSLY look at water cooling options for your CPU and GPU. Rendering is pretty hard on system components, so it's worth the extra protection. Also, overclocking is NOT recommended on rendering systems.

There, hopefully that should get this discussion rolling.
This is some pretty solid advice. Right now we're running a GTX1070 and it's good for now. Eventually we'll want to upgrade and you've provided some great advice. Thanks!