VN Developer looking for ideas

Markoelfenix

New Member
May 1, 2017
2
4
Hi everyone;

As a degenerate who has been playing hundreds of games of this genre, we have a really great idea for a game, no recycled generic ideas that we see so much in these forums, we want to try something new.

Let's say the game is divided into a series of worlds, each with its own characters, relationships and stories. Each one totally different from the previous one but with a common character, the protagonist. Thanks to that system we can have anything without the plot being affected.

So… I want to know what you think about these things that we still have to tie.

>Any fetish is possible

Answer the poll above
 

cold_arctus

Devoted Member
Sep 25, 2018
8,944
10,834
I gladly would like to participate in your poll, but why do I need a google account for this? I don't have one and I don't one! This way, big sorry!
 
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DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
3,360
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That poll is incredibly flawed.
Screenshot_2018-11-19 Your perfect X videogame.png

One of these things is not like the others

Screenshot_2018-11-19 Your perfect X videogame(1).png

Something like that probably should have allowed to select multiple.

I was gonna go on, but as the questions and answers got more and more silly and contrived I realized your poll, as it is, is completely useless.

In the end here's what I suggest. If you want feedback give a brief synopsis of what your game is meant to be. No, what you've stated already tells me nothing, except that it sounds ambitious and pretentious.

After we have that we have some semblance of what your game is. Fetishes should not be designed to service our desires, they should service the story being told.
 

hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
583
That poll is incredibly flawed.
View attachment 181098

One of these things is not like the others

View attachment 181099

Something like that probably should have allowed to select multiple.

I was gonna go on, but as the questions and answers got more and more silly and contrived I realized your poll, as it is, is completely useless.

In the end here's what I suggest. If you want feedback give a brief synopsis of what your game is meant to be. No, what you've stated already tells me nothing, except that it sounds ambitious and pretentious.

After we have that we have some semblance of what your game is. Fetishes should not be designed to service our desires, they should service the story being told.
I personally second all of the above, except the last part. Mostly because it's not that hard to design the story around the fetishes you want to include. :)
 

Domiek

In a Scent
Donor
Game Developer
Jun 19, 2018
1,988
10,144
Hi everyone;

As a degenerate who has been playing hundreds of games of this genre, we have a really great idea for a game, no recycled generic ideas that we see so much in these forums, we want to try something new.

Let's say the game is divided into a series of worlds, each with its own characters, relationships and stories. Each one totally different from the previous one but with a common character, the protagonist. Thanks to that system we can have anything without the plot being affected.

So… I want to know what you think about these things that we still have to tie.

>Any fetish is possible

Answer the poll above
Interesting you're going this direction. I was actually toying with the idea of doing a "twilight zone/black mirror" style game, where each episode was an entirely new story while using the same cast. That way people wont have to wait for a year or two of development to see a complete story.

Ultimately I ended up deciding to do a different game but now I'm super curious to see what you guys will pull off.
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
Donor
Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
3,360
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I personally second all of the above, except the last part. Mostly because it's not that hard to design the story around the fetishes you want to include. :)
I think story comes first regardless. Yes, it's fine to have fetishes in mind, but if you want a light hearted romance and go full BDSM you're gonna have to do some convincing.
 
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hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
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I think story comes first regardless. Yes, it's fine to have fetishes in mind, but if you want a light hearted romance and go full BDSM you're gonna have to do some convincing.
You can do it, by creating a triggering event for the main character and explore the downwards spiral he enters because of it. For example. Or he can meet a submissive, that makes him enter that world and than explore how those things enter his relationship with other girls. There are million ways to tell a story and billion ways to connect seemingly opposite, unconnected and incompatible things in to a story. :)

That actually sounds hilarious. Please, someone make this.
You are the one with the "developer" tag. :p
 
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The Wicked One

Active Member
Jul 8, 2017
715
2,393
Oh, so it isn't the usual *say this in deep a slavic accent "You are young man. Your father dead. You move with your mom and sisters. Try to have sex with family" old fashioned formula on here?
 
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Pattronia

Newbie
Oct 30, 2018
18
3
An evil twin sister who is a hooker changes places with her pure sister who is a successful woman maybe in law or business. Have not seen anything like that here or anywhere.
 
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DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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You can do it, by creating a triggering event for the main character and explore the downwards spiral he enters because of it. For example. Or he can meet a submissive, that makes him enter that world and than explore how those things enter his relationship with other girls. There are million ways to tell a story and billion ways to connect seemingly opposite, unconnected and incompatible things in to a story. :)
No, I meant keeping the light hearted tone throughout. The BDSM being a part of a light hearted romance. Not a light hearted romance that gets darker as BDSM is introduced. It would be like one of those slice of life/shonen/romance anime like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya or the more recent Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai. Where on the surface and throughout it's a light hearted comedy, but the MC just happens to meet a strange girl who breaks him out of his funk.

It could be done, but only for one, maybe two fetishes, if you went life sim with it, you couldn't take a bunch of crowd sourced unrelated fetishes and force them to serve that same narrative. There's only so much you can do.
 

hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
583
No, I meant keeping the light hearted tone throughout. The BDSM being a part of a light hearted romance. Not a light hearted romance that gets darker as BDSM is introduced. It would be like one of those slice of life/shonen/romance anime like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya or the more recent Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai. Where on the surface and throughout it's a light hearted comedy, but the MC just happens to meet a strange girl who breaks him out of his funk.

It could be done, but only for one, maybe two fetishes, if you went life sim with it, you couldn't take a bunch of crowd sourced unrelated fetishes and force them to serve that same narrative. There's only so much you can do.
I simply can't agree. Maybe because my storytelling experience started with being a Game Master or because I like experimenting too much, but I would never say - there is no way to tell such a story. And honestly, since I barely watch anime at all I got nothing from those examples, so I can't really comment on them :D
 

Domiek

In a Scent
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Jun 19, 2018
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I simply can't agree. Maybe because my storytelling experience started with being a Game Master or because I like experimenting too much, but I would never say - there is no way to tell such a story. And honestly, since I barely watch anime at all I got nothing from those examples, so I can't really comment on them :D
I think @DarthSeduction is trying to convey consistency. You can tell any story in any way you choose, just be consistent in how it's told.

I'm imagining people would be confused if they were watching an Adam Sandler movie that started to resemble Saw halfway through.

Someone please make this... I need it.
 
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hameleona

Member
Oct 27, 2018
287
583
I think @darthaseduction is trying to convey consistency. You can tell any story in any way you choose, just be consistent in how it's told.
Ok, but I honestly don't see what sexual fetishes have to do with story consistency. You just need to adjust the story and writing to accommodate whatever there needs to be in them. And leave enough choice to the player to not make them feel forced by the designer in to something they didn't agree upon.
I doubt anyone here would think that "A wild fetish appears and attacks you" is a good way of designing a game, much less to tell a story. :)
 

Dankwank

Newbie
Sep 23, 2018
49
202
I think your idea for traveling through words could lend itself to lots of kind of fun kinky sex scene. Likewise that premise might be particularly interesting if the protagonist had no control over when, or where they are transported. Like- perhaps if the villain, or whatever sort of antagonistic force exists in the game, was the one responsible for teleportation/relocating the main character. Maybe at the end the main character could choose to return to a world of their choosing and live out the rest of their days there or something.

Also if I had to suggest an art style I'd say go with either 2dcg, or Pixel art. Good luck partner!
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Dec 28, 2017
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Ok, but I honestly don't see what sexual fetishes have to do with story consistency. You just need to adjust the story and writing to accommodate whatever there needs to be in them. And leave enough choice to the player to not make them feel forced by the designer in to something they didn't agree upon.
I doubt anyone here would think that "A wild fetish appears and attacks you" is a good way of designing a game, much less to tell a story. :)
Making an adjustment to accommodate is exactly how you ruin consistency. Even a game of D&D has some rules, and a good DM will enforce them. A Lawful Good character who suddenly goes all murder hobo should find themselves running into major consequences, maybe of the type that could result in a player kill. A character who's supposed to be agorophobic can't all of the sudden be really excited about going on a camping trip. A slut who's slept through every tavern in Baldur's Gate can't suddenly be a blushing maiden, unless she's got acting skills, and a really high deception and rolls a 20, but then again, that would make it consistent again.

Similarly a fetish has the power to completely change the tone of a porn game. I intentionally combined BDSM with the idea of a light hearted romance because BDSM has an inherent dark tone to it. It focuses on pain and humiliation. In order to keep such a tone light you need to give me a character I can believe that from. Sorry to make another anime reference, but Darkness, from Konosuba, is a perfect example of this. The show is based in a fantasy world that seems to operate on fantasy game rules, but is an actual realm with living people governed by the same gods as our world. In it Darkness is a Crusader, essentially a paladin, and a huge fucking masochist. She gets all excited when the main character calls her a pervert for enjoying being a human shield. She gets all excited at the chance to fight a strong or disgusting monster. She starts fantasizing out loud about how someone or something might have their way with her. By making her this over the top comedic character we can suddenly keep a light and fun tone in spite of a dark fetish.

However, when you do that too many times in the same story it stops being a story and starts being a collection of content to serve nothing but fapping. You see it all the time, games come out boasting 15 different girls who all have the personality of a cardboard box and each like something a little different sexually speaking than the other. You never actually get any sort of coherent story from it, its probably got less plot than your average porn. Why? Because you spread the story too thin to support all these different kinks and fetishes.

That's why you decide on a story first and then see what fetish content you can fit into it.
 
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hameleona

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Making an adjustment to accommodate is exactly how you ruin consistency. Even a game of D&D has some rules, and a good DM will enforce them. A Lawful Good character who suddenly goes all murder hobo should find themselves running into major consequences, maybe of the type that could result in a player kill. A character who's supposed to be agorophobic can't all of the sudden be really excited about going on a camping trip. A slut who's slept through every tavern in Baldur's Gate can't suddenly be a blushing maiden, unless she's got acting skills, and a really high deception and rolls a 20, but then again, that would make it consistent again.
Well, no.
LG character turning murder-hobo changes his alignment. In previous editions it was actually written in the rules (don't know about 5e). If he is a paladin in older editions - he looses some powers. Or atones. The consequences are based on the tone, type and setting of the story, that unfolds, not on the rules of the system (in most cases... and where they were based on rules in the system, the developers realized it was a mistake). But in a game he would do that, because the developer pushed the story in such a way to send him on the road of chaos. Not just because.
No matter what the phobia, a lot of people decide to face it. They go trough the motions - and than ether fail or succeed in facing it. Since I can remember I have a phobia of cockroaches. Do you think I call the police, when I find one in the bathroom at 4AM? :)
A slut probably wont "just turn shy". She may if you drop 3rd degree burns on her, tho. She could be a blushing fest in front of the MC, because she finally feels something for someone.

There are ways to justify so many things. First thing my first publisher told me after reading my draft was:
"It need work. You have things in there for their own sake. Black dude is there to be a black dude. People use swords, so that you can have swordfights. Take the script and make the characters characters and build the setting in such a way, so that swordfights are justified. If you feel the need to have a specific thing - ether justify it or drop it."

I have yet to see something, that can't be justified in a story. This is why you plan for the story from the start. Why you build the setting from the start. And why you pick a style from the start. You can start the creation process with:
"This is the story of Mal Raynolds, a man of broken faith, rebel and father to his men"
Or you can start by:
"I want cowboys in SPACE!!!"
Both can lead you to Firefly. Both can lead you to ruin. That is on your skills.

Similarly a fetish has the power to completely change the tone of a porn game. I intentionally combined BDSM with the idea of a light hearted romance because BDSM has an inherent dark tone to it. It focuses on pain and humiliation. In order to keep such a tone light you need to give me a character I can believe that from. Sorry to make another anime reference, but Darkness, from Konosuba, is a perfect example of this. The show is based in a fantasy world that seems to operate on fantasy game rules, but is an actual realm with living people governed by the same gods as our world. In it Darkness is a Crusader, essentially a paladin, and a huge fucking masochist. She gets all excited when the main character calls her a pervert for enjoying being a human shield. She gets all excited at the chance to fight a strong or disgusting monster. She starts fantasizing out loud about how someone or something might have their way with her. By making her this over the top comedic character we can suddenly keep a light and fun tone in spite of a dark fetish.

However, when you do that too many times in the same story it stops being a story and starts being a collection of content to serve nothing but fapping. You see it all the time, games come out boasting 15 different girls who all have the personality of a cardboard box and each like something a little different sexually speaking than the other. You never actually get any sort of coherent story from it, its probably got less plot than your average porn. Why? Because you spread the story too thin to support all these different kinks and fetishes.

That's why you decide on a story first and then see what fetish content you can fit into it.
No, you get 15 cardbox characters, because the dev was lazy and never put the time or effort in making them interesting. Or they don't have the skills and creativity to do it. There are many ways to motivate people to do specific things. You just need to spend enough time developing that character, so that you can push them the way you need. You are the author, you created them. You know (or should know) everything about them - their hopes, dreams, fears, secrets... There is no such thing of spreading a story too thin. Problems can come with the pacing but pacing is more in tune with "I'm too good for my editor" problem. It's why we have editors, proof reader and knit group of people who read the early drafts.

This is why for a game and especially if you want a sandbox-ish, harem-style porn game you start with the content. Than outline the story and characters. Tweak whatever needs tweaking. And than start writing. We are not some woman giving birth to a child in a cave. We are authors. We are to the woman the genetic engineers slicing and dicing gene sequences to create our own perfect übermench. A story goes where we decide, however we decide, when we decide. And the only thing we need to do, when creating it is ask questions.
"Why?" - the question, that will make you make decent characters. Why are they that way? Why do they do that? It can literally drive a story. It will have the same effect on a setting. Why are there cowboys? Why are there so many rapists in this place?! It will fill the gaps in a story. Why is the Consortium out to get that character? Why can they deploy a full-blown tactical hit-squad?
With enough work, every hole, every inconsistency, every abnormality and every wish can be fulfilled. It's not about "spreading the story" but "Knowing my limits".
And, yes, there is much more to it, but on the base it's this. If you can answer the question - you can include it. If you can't - you won't include it.
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Dec 28, 2017
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LG character turning murder-hobo changes his alignment. In previous editions it was actually written in the rules (don't know about 5e). If he is a paladin in older editions - he looses some powers. Or atones. The consequences are based on the tone, type and setting of the story, that unfolds, not on the rules of the system (in most cases... and where they were based on rules in the system, the developers realized it was a mistake). But in a game he would do that, because the developer pushed the story in such a way to send him on the road of chaos. Not just because.
You're a much more lenient DM than I am. I encourage in character roleplay. When they break character without valid reason the consequences are steep.

As to the developer pushing the story, here's an example of that. Acting lessons. The developer decided to push what was a heartfelt romance with some engaging characters and some sadness into a thriller and broke all our immersion. The revealed psycho wasn't well set up, the other bait antagonists had been over the top the whole time, and all for a stupid twist that didn't work. You can only push a story so far before you break it.

"It need work. You have things in there for their own sake. Black dude is there to be a black dude. People use swords, so that you can have swordfights. Take the script and make the characters characters and build the setting in such a way, so that swordfights are justified. If you feel the need to have a specific thing - ether justify it or drop it."
Sounds to me like you're working backwards.

You just need to spend enough time
No, you get 15 cardbox characters,
I hope you see the parodox here. If the trouble is time then you're either going to develop at a snails pace losing everyone's interest, or, you're going to develop cardboard. It's that simple.

The more you try to cram into something the more bullshitting you have to do to justify it. Making a story longer doesn't make it better. In fact, you're better off cutting things out and making something with less, than you are with making something with everything.

If you build a really cool world that has intersting pockets to explore, then in a separate story you can do that just fine. But it is best to make the things you add serve the story that is there, rather than bending the story till it breaks to justify it.
 
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hameleona

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You're a much more lenient DM than I am. I encourage in character roleplay. When they break character without valid reason the consequences are steep.

As to the developer pushing the story, here's an example of that. Acting lessons. The developer decided to push what was a heartfelt romance with some engaging characters and some sadness into a thriller and broke all our immersion. The revealed psycho wasn't well set up, the other bait antagonists had been over the top the whole time, and all for a stupid twist that didn't work. You can only push a story so far before you break it.
A GM is there to guide and be an arbiter. I prefer the carrot and use the stick only in extreme situations. But that's another topic.

Acting Lessons is a prime example of bad execution, not a bad story. The problem with that story was first the sudden tone shift with no build up and than the idiotic redhead cliche. It's why my comment after playing it was "Fuck this game". It had bad execution and it's a bad game for stripping player agency. The tonal shift needed something like 5 episodes to prepare the player for it. Or 10. But I will give him one thing - he seem to have had done all the pre-development job one has to do. The story was obviously planned from the start. The characters were developed before he started writing. It's a professional job in every other part but one - he so wanted to tell that specific story, he seems to have ignored basic rules of both storytelling and game design. This is what happens, when the story starts to interfere with the game.

I hope you see the parodox here. If the trouble is time then you're either going to develop at a snails pace losing everyone's interest, or, you're going to develop cardboard. It's that simple.

The more you try to cram into something the more bullshitting you have to do to justify it. Making a story longer doesn't make it better. In fact, you're better off cutting things out and making something with less, than you are with making something with everything.

If you build a really cool world that has intersting pockets to explore, then in a separate story you can do that just fine. But it is best to make the things you add serve the story that is there, rather than bending the story till it breaks to justify it.
I don't see a paradox. Yes, there is a lot more work to be done after one figures out all that must be figured out. There is a reason games have months of development time, before even a real demo is available. Making a good game with a good story requires many things. A solid game (engine, mechanics, UI...), solid world and solid story.

How many games posted here even had a basic design documentation? You know, that 100+ pages file, that outlines everything in a game - story, world, mechanics, characters, UI. I expect only a few. But than again, most games here are more basic than most CYOA books. And most that tried to be more failed. Gladly it seems there are a few teams, that are quite professional in their approach.

Yes, you create 2-3 times more information, than what will probably be used. You traded 4 or more weeks of writing for knowing exactly how to deliver the product you promised. But it's there and you can use it on demand. ;)