Developers who abandoned their games

Mephistofeles

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Jul 9, 2017
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I noticed a sad amount of abandoned games in their early (i mean, REAALLY early, 0.01) development. So i was thinking, why cant the developers of said games leave the assets and programing available for someone who would finish that games? Wouldnt that be the best option? Its not like we are not breaking gods knows how many copyright laws already...
I found this particulary usefull for games who had an awesome concept but were abandoned anyway for another project.
 

RanliLabz

Creating SpaceCorps XXX
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Renpy games effectively do this already... many aren’t encoded or - if so - are easily uncracked. That means you already have access to the artwork, script, UI and sound, etc. Game engines with licences will be trickier... I’ve never tried cracking a unity game, for instance, but I’m sure it can be done.

When it comes to additional content: Sadly, many cgi devs use unmodified or barely modified assets - usually downloaded from f95... and anyone with enough Daz skills to make a game should be able to recreate them. [thats why I usually don’t bother with games that look like they use unmodded base models - without the investment in creating your own character and sets, it’s much easier to walk away! For Honeyselect characters... well, they just all look the same to me anyway. :LOL: For drawn games, it just depends how good you are at copying another artist’s style (though anyone familiar with comic book hand overs will prob easily accept a style change)

PS it would obvs still be Important to get the original devs permission and blessing.
 

Mephistofeles

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Jul 9, 2017
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698
Renpy games effectively do this already... many aren’t encoded or - if so - are easily uncracked. That means you already have access to the artwork, script, UI and sound, etc. Game engines with licences will be trickier... I’ve never tried cracking a unity game, for instance, but I’m sure it can be done.

When it comes to additional content: Sadly, many cgi devs use unmodified or barely modified assets - usually downloaded from f95... and anyone with enough Daz skills to make a game should be able to recreate them. [thats why I usually don’t bother with games that look like they use unmodded base models - without the investment in creating your own character and sets, it’s much easier to walk away! For Honeyselect characters... well, they just all look the same to me anyway. :LOL: For drawn games, it just depends how good you are at copying another artist’s style (though anyone familiar with comic book hand overs will prob easily accept a style change)

PS it would obvs still be Important to get the original devs permission and blessing.
While i agree with asking for permission to the original creator, i think about it in the same way one would consider adoption. If you leave your child in the street, no one should ask your permission to take it away from you.
 

anne O'nymous

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While i agree with asking for permission to the original creator, i think about it in the same way one would consider adoption. If you leave your child in the street, no one should ask your permission to take it away from you.
Yeah, those Amber Alerts are really annoying. You can't abduct children peacefully nowadays...


Seriously man ?
 

Luderos

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Jul 20, 2020
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It's not "why can't they?", it's "why would they?".

It would be as much, if not more, effort to start with someone else's pile of junk than to build your own. Everybody has at least a few game ideas rattling around in their heads, so there's no reason to finish someone else's work when you could just make something of your own.
 

woody554

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Jan 20, 2018
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what luderos said above. and lets face it, no abandoned 0.1 game has gathered enough glory to keep it going just as a fan service. it's different for a more established top game like big brother, it has a following that simply won't drop it even though the dev abandoned it years ago. but even there we've seen the continuations/remakes haven't solved this problem, they get abandoned just like the original. and if that's the case with a following like BB, what chance do the others even have. none.

even if you love the game, better just make your own version of the same idea and change it to fit your own desires even better.
 

slitherhence

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Sep 24, 2017
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To be clear... the absence of an explicit license technically means that product is copyrighted in the strictest sense possible... meaning even downloading it to your computer from the author's patreon just to play it is a violation of copyright. Obviously, that would never hold up in court as the author of the work has themselves made the game available to their patrons for the express purpose of being downloaded and played. That said, what _would_ hold up in court is if you downloaded it then continued adding to it and released the modified version publicly... even for free. And then the original author finds out and files a lawsuit and now you're boned.

Authors who wish to avoid the issue mentioned in the OP should explicitly license their games with an . Such licenses make explicit provisions for the alteration and continuation of your work under a different or even the same name by a different author. And all the major game engines/platforms have licensing terms that allow the content and code added as part of your specific game to be licensed any way you like and the engine itself redistributed as part of said game.

There are problems with these licenses, however. Such as that other potential authors don't have to wait till you abandon your game to make their own version. And, strictly speaking, these licenses make it impossible to pirate your software by making "pirate" a meaningless term... decompiling and modifying any protections added to the code is allowed under these licenses. Further... many such licenses are what is called "copy left". Meaning they place a number of restrictions on the developer for what amounts to political reasons (looking at you GPLv3)... such as requiring you to make the uncompiled source and assets of your game available to everyone, making it illegal to include anything licensed in a different way together (meaning you wouldn't be able to include the game engine with the rest of the game), or even disallowing the use of anti-piracy (and many anti-cheat) measures entirely.

The simplest solution is to chose a closed license to start with and then, if you are going to abandon your game, switch it to a permissive license like or first. Then if someone comes along and decides they want to finish what you started... they can. They must only give you credit and keep the existing permissive license for the parts you already completed. This will be my own policy as I begin developing games myself.
 
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RanliLabz

Creating SpaceCorps XXX
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To be clear... the absence of an explicit license technically means that product is copyrighted in the strictest sense possible... meaning even downloading it to your computer from the author's patreon just to play it is a violation of copyright. Obviously, that would never hold up in court as the author of the work has themselves made the game available to their patrons for the express purpose of being downloaded and played. That said, what _would_ hold up in court is if you downloaded it then continued adding to it and released the modified version publicly... even for free. And then the original author finds out and files a lawsuit and now you're boned.

Authors who wish to avoid the issue mentioned in the OP should explicitly license their games with an . Such licenses make explicit provisions for the alteration and continuation of your work under a different or even the same name by a different author. And all the major game engines/platforms have licensing terms that allow the content and code added as part of your specific game to be licensed any way you like and the engine itself redistributed as part of said game.

There are problems with these licenses, however. Such as that other potential authors don't have to wait till you abandon your game to make their own version. And, strictly speaking, these licenses make it impossible to pirate your software by making "pirate" a meaningless term... decompiling and modifying any protections added to the code is allowed under these licenses. Further... many such licenses are what is called "copy left". Meaning they place a number of restrictions on the developer for what amounts to political reasons... such as requiring you to make the uncompiled source and assets of your game available to everyone, making it illegal to include anything licensed in a different way together, or even disallowing the use of anti-piracy measures entirely (looking at you GPLv3).

The simplest solution is to chose a closed license to start with and then, if you are going to abandon your game, switch it to a permissive license like MIT or BSD first. Then if someone comes along and decides they want to finish what you started... they can. They must only give you credit and keep the existing permissive license for the parts you already completed. This will be my own policy as I begin developing games myself.
A lawyer! Lol - I believe that you are 100% right in everything you said about licences ... but its still mainly irrelevant (I hope that doesn’t come across as rude - it’s not intended to be). The truth is that any lawsuits are incredibly unlikely to happen in any context... most of the adult games around are pirated, and it’s not worth the creators time or money to pursue a copyright claim

The first problem is that this is international - that’s very difficult to enforce for an individual (many countries don’t even recognise and enforce c laws... including tonga ); the second is tracking down the identity of an author (most use pseudonyms, and silicon Valley is quite privacy skewed in this arena... heck Patreon won’t even respond to the average dmca complaint, let alone release privileged details); but the main one is that neither party is likely to have the resources to either initiate a c claim or to make pursuing it worthwhile... you won’t even get legal rep if a lawyer doesn’t think they’ll make a decent buck from it!

This isn’t universal...if a game was really successful you’d have issues. But that’s unlikely in any scenario - let alone a fan-version of a v0.1 that got abandoned :ROFLMAO: If I’d written Summertime Saga v0.1, sure I’d sue for a share*... but I can’t see more than a handful of games in that category.
 

slitherhence

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Sep 24, 2017
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A lawyer! Lol - I believe that you are 100% right in everything you said about licences ... but its still mainly irrelevant (I hope that doesn’t come across as rude - it’s not intended to be). The truth is that any lawsuits are incredibly unlikely to happen in any context... most of the adult games around are pirated, and it’s not worth the creators time or money to pursue a copyright claim

The first problem is that this is international - that’s very difficult to enforce for an individual (many countries don’t even recognise and enforce c laws... including tonga ); the second is tracking down the identity of an author (most use pseudonyms, and silicon Valley is quite privacy skewed in this arena... heck Patreon won’t even respond to the average dmca complaint, let alone release privileged details); but the main one is that neither party is likely to have the resources to either initiate a c claim or to make pursuing it worthwhile... you won’t even get legal rep if a lawyer doesn’t think they’ll make a decent buck from it!

This isn’t universal...if a game was really successful you’d have issues. But that’s unlikely in any scenario - let alone a fan-version of a v0.1 that got abandoned :ROFLMAO: If I’d written Summertime Saga v0.1, sure I’d sue for a share*... but I can’t see more than a handful of games in that category.
I agree it's unlikely to be an issue... but if it is an issue it can only be a huge one. Better that prospective developers are aware of the legalities in advance. It's one thing if you are pirating it for personal use... but publicly releasing a changed version makes one a much more visible target. Then it's just a matter of whether it's worth it to come after you... like you said. This is why I'm very wary of using pirated assets in things I plan to release.

Also, nope, not a lawyer. But I am a software dev (in another life) and have had to get somewhat familiar with the licensing issues that surround that. But definitely don't treat what I say as the advice of a lawyer. :p
 

anne O'nymous

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To be clear... the absence of an explicit license technically means that product is copyrighted in the strictest sense possible... meaning even downloading it to your computer from the author's patreon just to play it is a violation of copyright.
No, downloading, then playing, the game is in no case a violation of the author's rights.

In absence of all information regarding a license, you own all rights on any "work of the mind" (poor literal translation) you create. This mean games, but also scribbles on a napkin, and of course also what you wrote on the comment I answer to.
But those rights are updated by the common usage, depending of what you did with the "content" you produced. It's what permit me to quote you, despite not owning the rights over your text. It's the common usage on a forum that whatever is wrote can, and will, be quoted, partly or integrally, by other persons. Therefore in regard of Law, by validating your comment, you implicitly give us the authorization to do so.
The same happen when a game author put a link to download his game. By doing so he give, to anyone that can see the said link (in this case his patrons), the right to download, then play, his game. And, obviously, only those rights ; they still can't modify it, nor distribute it on their own.


Authors who wish to avoid the issue mentioned in the OP should explicitly license their games with an . Such licenses make explicit provisions for the alteration and continuation of your work under a different or even the same name by a different author.
Or just say/write it in the game.
Licenses are just standardized way to explain the rights you give to the others, and in what limits those rights apply. It's better to use one, because they are wrote by professional, but legally the words of the author is enough.
At any time an author who can't continue to works on his game can just say on his Patreon page that he gave to anyone the rights to continue it, and it would be enough. He still own all rights over the original content, but also granted others the right to use it, under the conditions that he can possibly have stated.


And, strictly speaking, these licenses make it impossible to pirate your software by making "pirate" a meaningless term... decompiling and modifying any protections added to the code is allowed under these licenses.
Again, no.
You can perfectly put a commercial product under an open source license, if this license permit commercial use. It would grant you the right to distribute an effectively modified version of the product, but distributing an unmodified version would still be an act of piracy.
This is even more true for games since open source licenses are generally, voluntarily or not, worded in a way that technically limit them to the code of the game ; the story and all the arts are still full property of the original author.


The simplest solution is to chose a closed license to start with and then, if you are going to abandon your game, switch it to a permissive license like MIT or BSD first.
Which wouldn't works, especially for the BSD licenses.
Even in its historical version the BSD licenses are worded in a way that limit it to the sole code. It can be argued that the story is part of the code since the dialogs are directly included in it, but the arts fall outside of the license and are to be assumed as full property of the author. The MIT is worded in a less precise way, but it can still be assumed that its scope is limited to the sole wrote part, and so do not include the arts.
If really an author want to change the license at this time, it's a that he should use, since they are explicitly worded to include every single part of the "product". Or he can put the code under an open source license and renounce to his rights over the art, as long as they are used as part of the extended game.
 

slitherhence

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Sep 24, 2017
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No, downloading, then playing, the game is in no case a violation of the author's rights.
You're wrong on this one. Any copying of the original work... including the act of downloading it... is a potential violation of the authors rights unless he explicitly gives permission for such copies to be made. It is _implied_ that such permission is granted by the act of the author sharing it for download... which a judge is likely to rule is the case as _case law_... which is not law, per se... indicates. That same implied permission is granted when making a comment on a forum. But if I write something in a manuscript I plan to eventually release as a novel (but currently haven't) and part of the manuscript is downloaded by someone I haven't given explicit permission to do so even just to read for themselves... that's a clear case of piracy. That same would go for an unreleased game.

The part you are missing which I (ahem... implicitly) covered in the comment you are quoting is the difference between explicit and implicit permission. Explicit permission is what, generally, actual copyright law deals with... while implicit permission is generally covered by case law. Case law is not really law... it's just "the effective law as the court system is willing to enforce it". It's based on the interpretations of law by judges and can be over turned by other judges. In other words... implicit permission is open to interpretation.

This is all US-centric, regardless. I have no real knowledge of law outside the US and do not really claim to.

Or just say/write it in the game.
Licenses are just standardized way to explain the rights you give to the others, and in what limits those rights apply. It's better to use one, because they are wrote by professional, but legally the words of the author is enough.
At any time an author who can't continue to works on his game can just say on his Patreon page that he gave to anyone the rights to continue it, and it would be enough. He still own all rights over the original content, but also granted others the right to use it, under the conditions that he can possibly have stated.
Okay? Are you disagreeing with me or not? Yes, it's better to use a formal license. That's why I suggested doing so. I'm giving advice... you're trying to prove me wrong while missing the point.

Or just say/write it in the game.
Again, no.
You can perfectly put a commercial product under an open source license, if this license permit commercial use. It would grant you the right to distribute an effectively modified version of the product, but distributing an unmodified version would still be an act of piracy.
Hypothetical: I modified it by removing the copy protection... it's now a new work. Again, we'd have to go to court to hash that out (assuming there isn't already case law about it... i'm sure there is).

Or just say/write it in the game.
This is even more true for games since open source licenses are generally, voluntarily or not, worded in a way that technically limit them to the code of the game ; the story and all the arts are still full property of the original author.

Which wouldn't works, especially for the BSD licenses.
Even in its historical version the BSD licenses are worded in a way that limit it to the sole code. It can be argued that the story is part of the code since the dialogs are directly included in it, but the arts fall outside of the license and are to be assumed as full property of the author. The MIT is worded in a less precise way, but it can still be assumed that its scope is limited to the sole wrote part, and so do not include the arts.
If really an author want to change the license at this time, it's a that he should use, since they are explicitly worded to include every single part of the "product". Or he can put the code under an open source license and renounce to his rights over the art, as long as they are used as part of the extended game.
Fair. I don't normally deal with assets in my other life. So that's new territory for me. You could have suggested that without the attitude and all the rest though.

Regardless my core point remains the same. Authors should give explicit, formal permission for their works to be continued if they are going to abandon it... ideally with a permissive open license. Further, authors should strongly consider a formal licensing for their work period.
 
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anne O'nymous

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You're wrong on this one. [...] It is _implied_ that such permission is granted by the act of the author sharing it for download... which a judge is likely to rule is the case as _case law_... which is not law, per se... indicates.
How can I be wrong, when your correction say exactly the same thing than me ?

I just used a more formal language because we are talking about a subject that need it, and because English isn't my native language. Therefore a formal language ensure that what I'll say will not be misunderstood because of some slang that I don't know. It's relatively mandatory when it come to such subject, since a misunderstanding can destroy one life ; even if in the end justice talk in his favor, having to face it isn't something that one want to experience in his life.
That's the sole difference between what I wrote, and your supposed correction of it.


The part you are missing which I (ahem... implicitly) covered in the comment you are quoting is the difference between explicit and implicit permission.
Hmm... I missed the difference between "Law" and "common usage", are you really sure ?


Are you disagreeing with me or not?
What is this question exactly ? :/
Why should it be a question of agreement/disagreement ? There's a lot of nuances in between and, among tons of other possibilities, one can agree while still having things to say, or precision to give.
This happen a lot in public forums where, even when answering to someone, people rarely talk to a person in particular, but to all the readers.


[...] you're trying to prove me wrong while missing the point.
You should hold your horse, or stop to frequent the places where you usually go :/
Firstly at no time I tried to prove you wrong. I just corrected few parts of the truth you already said, and explained few points that needed it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Secondly, am I the one who missed the point, or is it you who, for whatever reasons, haven't understood what I wrote ? My guess goes for the second, but I can be wrong.


You could have suggested that without the attitude and all the rest though.
Or you could works on your issues and not take a correction as a personal attack, or the use of formal language as a feeling of superiority. It would have made your answer more pleasant to read, and less irrelevant.

EOT
 

dspeed

Active Member
Oct 15, 2016
837
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To be clear... the absence of an explicit license technically means that product is copyrighted in the strictest sense possible... meaning even downloading it to your computer from the author's patreon just to play it is a violation of copyright. Obviously, that would never hold up in court as the author of the work has themselves made the game available to their patrons for the express purpose of being downloaded and played. That said, what _would_ hold up in court is if you downloaded it then continued adding to it and released the modified version publicly... even for free. And then the original author finds out and files a lawsuit and now you're boned.

Authors who wish to avoid the issue mentioned in the OP should explicitly license their games with an . Such licenses make explicit provisions for the alteration and continuation of your work under a different or even the same name by a different author. And all the major game engines/platforms have licensing terms that allow the content and code added as part of your specific game to be licensed any way you like and the engine itself redistributed as part of said game.

There are problems with these licenses, however. Such as that other potential authors don't have to wait till you abandon your game to make their own version. And, strictly speaking, these licenses make it impossible to pirate your software by making "pirate" a meaningless term... decompiling and modifying any protections added to the code is allowed under these licenses. Further... many such licenses are what is called "copy left". Meaning they place a number of restrictions on the developer for what amounts to political reasons (looking at you GPLv3)... such as requiring you to make the uncompiled source and assets of your game available to everyone, making it illegal to include anything licensed in a different way together (meaning you wouldn't be able to include the game engine with the rest of the game), or even disallowing the use of anti-piracy (and many anti-cheat) measures entirely.

The simplest solution is to chose a closed license to start with and then, if you are going to abandon your game, switch it to a permissive license like or first. Then if someone comes along and decides they want to finish what you started... they can. They must only give you credit and keep the existing permissive license for the parts you already completed. This will be my own policy as I begin developing games myself.
Don't do this.

You're on an international site with developers and users from all over the world. Framing US copyright law as the standard and not making it clear that this doesn't necessarily apply in the other 194 countries in the world sets a bad understanding of legislation.
 

slitherhence

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Sep 24, 2017
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-Be me
-Started a threath about continuing abandoned games
-Leave to train with a friend a couple of hours.
-Came back to find the biggest legal battle this site has ever witnessed.
I really don't get the hostility and lack of cooperation I'm seeing here. I'm sorry this happened in your thread. It absolutely wasn't my intention.

Don't do this.

You're on an international site with developers and users from all over the world. Framing US copyright law as the standard and not making it clear that this doesn't necessarily apply in the other 194 countries in the world sets a bad understanding of legislation.
What I said in that particular post is AFAIK generalized to the English speaking world. As I understand it, several countries have it as part of their copyright law that copyright is automatic (USA for sure, I also think Germany... I've been told there are more). No, not all of them, but it's a safer assumption than the alternative when talking about continuing someone else's work. And the open licenses themselves are AFAIK all designed with international use in mind. I don't see what was US-centric in that post other than the offhanded comment about judges throwing out frivolous cases (i'm not sure how that works in other countries).

How about this... instead of telling others what they can and cannot say... you help fill in the gaps? You _cooperate_ with them instead of undermining them? No one can be expected to know it all. I don't assume that I do. If someone wants to fill in the gaps, I certainly didn't say anything about me not wanting them to. This is a forum, after all. Everyone gets to speak. No one is saying that "now that i've given my 2-cent everyone else has to be silent on the subject". Certainly not me. I'm certainly not going to try to stop you if you want to point out where something I said doesn't apply in some countries. And I couldn't if I wanted to. And I wouldn't if I could.

How can I be wrong, when your correction say exactly the same thing than me ?

I just used a more formal language because we are talking about a subject that need it, and because English isn't my native language. Therefore a formal language ensure that what I'll say will not be misunderstood because of some slang that I don't know. It's relatively mandatory when it come to such subject, since a misunderstanding can destroy one life ; even if in the end justice talk in his favor, having to face it isn't something that one want to experience in his life.
That's the sole difference between what I wrote, and your supposed correction of it.




Hmm... I missed the difference between "Law" and "common usage", are you really sure ?




What is this question exactly ? :/
Why should it be a question of agreement/disagreement ? There's a lot of nuances in between and, among tons of other possibilities, one can agree while still having things to say, or precision to give.
This happen a lot in public forums where, even when answering to someone, people rarely talk to a person in particular, but to all the readers.




You should hold your horse, or stop to frequent the places where you usually go :/
Firstly at no time I tried to prove you wrong. I just corrected few parts of the truth you already said, and explained few points that needed it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Secondly, am I the one who missed the point, or is it you who, for whatever reasons, haven't understood what I wrote ? My guess goes for the second, but I can be wrong.




Or you could works on your issues and not take a correction as a personal attack, or the use of formal language as a feeling of superiority. It would have made your answer more pleasant to read, and less irrelevant.

EOT
Ok. Before we go any further let me clear something up: nothing I said was meant to be hostile. I was actually making an active attempt to keep an even tone. Apparently, despite that, you saw hostility. Apparently, I made the same mistake. Further, it appears we have both been agreeing with each other from the start and telling the other person they are wrong due to misunderstandings. Which is probably why I felt much of your initial response was "missing the point" (ie. irrelevant) same as you did.

Ironically, this all goes back to my original point. That relying on inference of intent based on implication is inherently fraught. It is, instead, better to be explicit. When I said that making one's game available for download and play would get a copyright lawsuit against someone who downloaded and played it thrown out in a court... I was _implying_ that there was this thing we are calling "implied permission" that creates a hole in the otherwise complete and total copyright protection granted automatically by some nations. But that implication was, I believe, missed by you. And when you quoted me and followed it immediately with "No." I inferred blanket dismissal from that.

It's no great sin. It happens. Especially when language barriers and cultural differences are involved. Which further underscores why it is important to use formal licenses both for the explicit statements of intent they represent and the fact that they have been translated in many different languages and their interaction with copyright laws of many different nations clarified in an official capacity. That way there are no misunderstandings.

BTW, your English is good enough I had no idea you weren't a native speaker.
 
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Mephistofeles

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I really don't get the hostility and lack of cooperation I'm seeing here. I'm sorry this happened in your thread. It absolutely wasn't my intention.



What I said in that particular post is AFAIK generalized to the English speaking world. As I understand it, several countries have it as part of their copyright law that copyright is automatic (USA for sure, I also think Germany... I've been told there are more). No, not all of them, but it's a safer assumption than the alternative when talking about continuing someone else's work. And the open licenses themselves are AFAIK all designed with international use in mind. I don't see what was US-centric in that post other than the offhanded comment about judges throwing out frivolous cases (i'm not sure how that works in other countries).

How about this... instead of telling others what they can and cannot say... you help fill in the gaps? You _cooperate_ with them instead of undermining them? No one can be expected to know it all. I don't assume that I do. If someone wants to fill in the gaps, I certainly didn't say anything about me not wanting them to. This is a forum, after all. Everyone gets to speak. No one is saying that "now that i've given my 2-cent everyone else has to be silent on the subject". Certainly not me. I'm certainly not going to try to stop you if you want to point out where something I said doesn't apply in some countries. And I couldn't if I wanted to. And I wouldn't if I could.



Ok. Before we go any further let me clear something up: nothing I said was meant to be hostile. I was actually making an active attempt to keep an even tone. Apparently, despite that, you saw hostility. Apparently, I made the same mistake. Further, it appears we have both been agreeing with each other from the start and telling the other person they are wrong due to misunderstandings. Which is probably why I felt much of your initial response was "missing the point" (ie. irrelevant) same as you did.

Ironically, this all goes back to my original point. That relying on inference of intent based on implication is inherently fraught. It is, instead, better to be explicit. When I said that making one's game available for download and play would get a copyright lawsuit against someone who downloaded and played it thrown out in a court... I was _implying_ that there was this thing we are calling "implied permission" that creates a hole in the otherwise complete and total copyright protection granted automatically by some nations. But that implication was, I believe, missed by you. And when you quoted me and followed it immediately with "No." I inferred blanket dismissal from that.

It's no great sin. It happens. Especially when language barriers and cultural differences are involved. Which further underscores why it is important to use formal licenses both for the explicit statements of intent they represent and the fact that they have been translated in many different languages and their interaction with copyright laws of many different nations clarified in an official capacity. That way there are no misunderstandings.

BTW, your English is good enough I had no idea you weren't a native speaker.
I wasnt complaining! I love this kind of debates!
But if i have to agree with something about that ''hostility'' towards you... it will be in the part where you base all your argument in the USA legal system. Most of us are not even from the USA.

you've been here for so long, you should've known better and basically expected this to happen xD
Im proud of this forum. And every day, im a little more proud.
 
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dspeed

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Oct 15, 2016
837
1,296
What I said in that particular post is AFAIK generalized to the English speaking world. As I understand it, several countries have it as part of their copyright law that copyright is automatic (USA for sure, I also think Germany... I've been told there are more). No, not all of them, but it's a safer assumption than the alternative when talking about continuing someone else's work. And the open licenses themselves are AFAIK all designed with international use in mind. I don't see what was US-centric in that post other than the offhanded comment about judges throwing out frivolous cases (i'm not sure how that works in other countries).

How about this... instead of telling others what they can and cannot say... you help fill in the gaps? You _cooperate_ with them instead of undermining them? No one can be expected to know it all. I don't assume that I do. If someone wants to fill in the gaps, I certainly didn't say anything about me not wanting them to. This is a forum, after all. Everyone gets to speak. No one is saying that "now that i've given my 2-cent everyone else has to be silent on the subject". Certainly not me. I'm certainly not going to try to stop you if you want to point out where something I said doesn't apply in some countries. And I couldn't if I wanted to. And I wouldn't if I could.
I'm not going to sit and write a full post explaining the difference in copyright law in the European Union, EEA, Schengen Zone and UK because you can't be arsed to put "This only applies to the US and I'm not too sure of that either as laws can differ by state" on top of your post.
 

tanstaafl

Active Member
Oct 29, 2018
921
1,352
Honestly, it probably has to do with the amount of effort put into a game and/or plans for future games, if any.

Say, for example, a guy or group of guys start to make a game. They put a good amount of effort into modeling the world/characters, but then decide to go a different direction with a story or decide to change the platform of the game.
In this case, I can see why they wouldn't make their assets public due to wanting to use them in the future, even if they have to adapt them a bit for whatever changes they are planning.

As for 'low effort' games, I feel those are free for the picking.
 

sillyrobot

Engaged Member
Apr 22, 2019
2,030
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I'm not going to sit and write a full post explaining the difference in copyright law in the European Union, EEA, Schengen Zone and UK because you can't be arsed to put "This only applies to the US and I'm not too sure of that either as laws can differ by state" on top of your post.
To be fair, a whole bunch of that stuff is covered in the Berne Convention -- which most of the world has signed. The U.S. was late to the party (which is fairly typical of any multi-party affair they don't start).