Devs who haven't finished games, creating extra content

[Mystic]

Don't worry, you probably have removed at least one of my posts in another thread for being unreasonable (in the least). If not, I'll try harder next time.

No, I have quite a good memory but don't remember you. Besides you seem civil enough with me and that's all I care for at the moment.

 

[おい！]

 

[Cwovictor]

Patreon isn't an investment. It's a donation jar. People seem to forget that. You are not entitled to the continuation of something you subscribed for. Now, it's 100% understandable to feel disappointed you're not getting what you want, but you were never promised anything.

 

[DuniX]

Patreon isn't an investment. It's a donation jar. People seem to forget that. You are not entitled to the continuation of something you subscribed for. Now, it's 100% understandable to feel disappointed you're not getting what you want, but you were never promised anything.

If you are getting paid you have some responsibility for that money.
Yes "Technically" they are donations and payers are not entitled to anything.
But if the paying customers had no expectations and entitlement and didn't treated that as a investment you wouldn't be getting paid at all. In other words that's not what they really believe.

Violate that at your own peril, if the "magic" of entitlement and investment disappear and those beliefs are shattered not only you aren't getting paid, everyone stops getting paid.

This has happened before with Kickstarter, there was a time where it was a viable funding method for Indie Games and the future was bright. Not anymore.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Patreon isn't an investment. It's a donation jar.

Subscription model suggests otherwise, as does the tier rewards system.

 

[morphnet]

Subscription model suggests otherwise, as does the tier rewards system.

That's not entirely true though, just like with many f2p games out there, in both cases you can get and play the game for free. The subscription model allows for continued support to help. In the case of porn games, it's to help the dev hopefully free up time which hopefully then is used to work on the game. In the case of f2p games you are hoping they use the money to create new content and pay for servers/new servers, maintenance and keep the game running.

In both cases you are not investing on a business level and in terms of promised returns they are the same in that there is no guarantee from either that by giving (subscribing) money, that they will guarantee new content. While some few dev's offer extras, story, renders, streaming feeds etc. and some f2p offer quicker access to gear or utilities etc. (not including scummy pay2win) in most cases both subscribers and free players see the same returns.

In these cases people are looking to support the dev or game company, not invest in it. I think the confusion comes from the difference between a personal, emotional investment and a financial, business investment and mixing the two up.
With porn game dev's, the subscription model allows for easy of use, in that people do not have to manually donate each month and the tier system allows for ease of use, in that those that would like to support but can afford $10 a month can still give $1 a month. These systems just make supporting easier.

The biggest difference though is that if you invest in a company and then pull that investment out you will not see any returns again (unless you reinvest). If you donate / subscribe to a game dev / company and then stop donating / subscribing, you still have access to the game (although not the extras in some cases).

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

That's not entirely true though, just like with many f2p games out there, in both cases you can get and play the game for free. The subscription model allows for continued support to help. In the case of porn games, it's to help the dev hopefully free up time which hopefully then is used to work on the game. In the case of f2p games you are hoping they use the money to create new content and pay for servers/new servers, maintenance and keep the game running.

In both cases you are not investing on a business level and in terms of promised returns they are the same in that there is no guarantee from either that by giving (subscribing) money, that they will guarantee new content. While some few dev's offer extras, story, renders, streaming feeds etc. and some f2p offer quicker access to gear or utilities etc. (not including scummy pay2win) in most cases both subscribers and free players see the same returns.

In these cases people are looking to support the dev or game company, not invest in it. I think the confusion comes from the difference between a personal, emotional investment and a financial, business investment and mixing the two up.
With porn game dev's, the subscription model allows for easy of use, in that people do not have to manually donate each month and the tier system allows for ease of use, in that those that would like to support but can afford $10 a month can still give $1 a month. These systems just make supporting easier.

The biggest difference though is that if you invest in a company and then pull that investment out you will not see any returns again (unless you reinvest). If you donate / subscribe to a game dev / company and then stop donating / subscribing, you still have access to the game (although not the extras in some cases).

Fair enough, I didn't mean to say I see Patreon as a business investment; but it's not a no-strings-attached tip jar either. Though I guess if you don't attach any production goals or offer any extra perks for subscription tiers, it can be just that.

 

[morphnet]

Fair enough, I didn't mean to say I see Patreon as a business investment; but it's not a no-strings-attached tip jar either. Though I guess if you don't attach any production goals or offer any extra perks for subscription tiers, it can be just that.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression with my reply, it is true, if there are cases (which should be frowned upon) where content locked behind a paywall then it's not a "no-strings-attached tip jar", it's just this is not the first time I read a reply along those lines and last time I don't think my reply was very well thought out. You post just gave me the opportunity to reply to that kind of idea in a more thought out way.

 

[moskyx]

The only ties in a subscription model are the promised rewards for each tier. And in those tiers I think no one says you'll be getting a certain amount of game content each month, only that you'll be able to play it first whenever it's done, plus some other additional perks (like exclusive posts, polls, and this extra content the OP is asking about). And that's the only binding agreement between a dev and their patrons.

By donating you are helping the dev to achieve their goal, which should be finishing their game, but that's not an exact rule. Sure, when someone sets up a Patreon page with a game as a hook, it's implied that the goal is to finish that game and that's a fair expectation, but in the end the reality is that you're supporting that dev as an entity, not that game as a product, so you are in dev's hands. All you can do is to unsubscribe as soon as you feel that your goals and their goals aren't aligned anymore. It can be painful to see some projects you were really invested and had high hopes in going to waste, but that's adult life for you.

 

[Cosy Creator]

People always talk about this in terms of what they think they are entitled to get (content wise), but personally I think it's more about honour. The supporters and developers don't "owe" each other anything. However, I think as a dev you are honour bound to do your best for the people that support you. As long as you stay honourable I think people will generally be quite kind, but when you stop being honourable your supporters are entirely justified in getting pissed off and demanding better, and then leaving if they don't get it.

 

[morphnet]

As long as you stay honourable I think people will generally be quite kind, but when you stop being honourable your supporters are entirely justified in getting pissed off and demanding better, and then leaving if they don't get it.

What you said is true but there are some unfair consequences that result from this too. If things were fair then when dev's with bad practices come to light, they and they alone would be blamed, unfortunately what happens in the real world is that a few dev's with bad practices come to light that blame is often share unfairly and spills over onto good dev's.
So the moment a dev has a late update or takes a short break they are painted in the same light as the worst dev's. Luckily there are communities that grow around projects to help off-set this somewhat but it still ends up being a problem in the long run.

Hopefully threads / posts and word of mouth will help off-set that further but it's sad to see many good dev's painted in a bad light because of a few rotten apples.

 

[Deleted member 5954819]

I don't see a thread similar to this being talked about. I am curious how the community feels about this. You are following a game because it is amazing to you and you love the story/gameplay. But the only issue is that the Dev takes forever between updates or drags the creation process, even with updates, on forever. The issue, and subject of this post, when the Dev does put out an update (sometimes super small) you discover they also added non-conical art/cgi renders on the side. Meaning, they took time away from the actual game development to spend hours rendering art or animations of the characters in their game in subject matter that has nothing to do with the games plot.

On one hand, i get it, it is your game to do with what you want. On the other hand, you have people sometimes paying subscription fees to support you finishing the actual game and you took time out of providing more content for the actual game to do "extra unneeded stuff".

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate every Devs artistic ability.

What say you community? How do you all feel about this? I mean, it's not like we can stop it. I am just curious to know if I am not the only one this bothers.

Why couldn't he do that?

Just because you give him €1.50 every month as support for making a good game doesn't mean you own him. That developer is not your property, nor is it some trained monkey that jumps as you whistle. He has his personal life; he has family and friends; and he can only do what he wants. Everyone needs a break sometimes. If someone thinks that it is possible to sit at the PC for 16 hours every day and do nothing but create a game, then I would recommend that he try it, and then we can talk about something because most people cannot even imagine such a thing

 

[Twoop]

As others mentioned, burnout. VNs have a lot of buildup and setting up so many scenes, poses, text, and code, for something that isnt a big moment is mentally exhausting. That's why you can either do something else like play a few games, or if you want to stay closer to the project just do something fun with it instead.

Usually I don't really like extra renders, they don't do anything for me but I'm curious if some group of people enjoy it. On the other hand, adding them in random dreams often feels too random and pushes players out of the main story.

 

[tanstaafl]

So much talk about Patreon and not a lot of talk about how a lot of people seem to misinterpret what that site is actually for. Some devs included. Patreon was never intended to be the place to subscribe to a product. It's a site to support an artist or dev or whatever through voluntary monetary donation. AVNs have a weird entry into this field since so many AVN Patreons are for devs with a single game. In this scenario it's easy for both sides to mistakenly see this as some form of transaction for that game.

But when you step back and look at the majority of Patreons they are for artists or content creators who are much, much more prolific. Putting out tons of content, be it video, music, art, or whatever. You are donating to the person as they create. The tiers should reflect this. Some Patreons offer early access. Some offer uncensored or uncut versions of their videos. It's up to whoever sets. One youtube channel I subscribe to (MXR Plays) does reaction content on youtube, but releases AVN playthroughs uncensored on their Patreon (lol).

Patreon is literally there to offset the "starving" part of "starving artist". End of story.

 

[orellion]

I normally don't do it, I'm a "tunnel vision" type of creator, but I can understand that some of my colleagues might need to take a little break from a project in order not to burn themselves.

Sometimes, doing "something else" for a while does wonders to one's creativity.

The idea is somewhat implemented in massive companies like Google, called Fedex days, take one day and work on something off the wall.