Dialogue choices even if they don't matter?

Would you rather have dummy dialogue choices that don't change much or have no dialogue choices?


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    77

Daruko01

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Game Developer
May 7, 2017
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I'm working on my game called Taste Of Life, and for now it's only got choices when it comes to spicy and sex scenes (harder, faster, slower, etc), so it's a bit more akin to a kinetic novel when it comes to the story. My question is, do you prefer to have dialogue choices at some points in games even if they don't really matter or change anything to the story (dummy dialogue choices), or would you rather have little to no dialogue choices to make until a critical point in the story, which might be very few and far between? I know that dialogue choices can definitely bring a better sense of interactivity with the game and its characters.
 

Doorknob22

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Nov 3, 2017
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In my game you can often choose between playing a complete asshole and a... well, slightly lesser asshole. Sometimes it's good to add "flavor" choices even if they don't change the flow of the game because a good dialog is a reward on its own. Having said that, I don't recommend overdoing it as in my opinion it creates frustration with players who'll feel tricked, as if their choices don't matter.
 

Daruko01

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Game Developer
May 7, 2017
356
608
In my game you can often choose between playing a complete asshole and a... well, slightly lesser asshole. Sometimes it's good to add "flavor" choices even if they don't change the flow of the game because a good dialog is a reward on its own. Having said that, I don't recommend overdoing it as in my opinion it creates frustration with players who'll feel tricked, as if their choices don't matter.
Fair fair, maybe I'll implement some flavor choices in my game too, to keep the player more invested.Thanks c:
 
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Jofur

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May 22, 2018
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I might be alone in this, but to me, these "flavor choices" are more satisfying than major game changing decisions. Provided that you at least get couple of lines of the character responding differently to them. I love to be able to build up the protagonist's personality and see how characters respond to it, it just boosts the enjoyment of the the story. Even if I know it has no lasting effect.

It might be a good idea to differentiate between the flavor choices and the ones that have actual impact on the story(if you have any). Maybe the important choices could have an icon or different colored text. That sort of stuff.
 

Doorknob22

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It might be a good idea to differentiate between the flavor choices and the ones that have actual impact on the story(if you have any). Maybe the important choices could have an icon or different colored text. That sort of stuff.
Consider this idea stolen... ;)
 
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Daruko01

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May 7, 2017
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I might be alone in this, but to me, these "flavor choices" are more satisfying than major game changing decisions. Provided that you at least get couple of lines of the character responding differently to them. I love to be able to build up the protagonist's personality and see how characters respond to it, it just boosts the enjoyment of the the story. Even if I know it has no lasting effect.

It might be a good idea to differentiate between the flavor choices and the ones that have actual impact on the story(if you have any). Maybe the important choices could have an icon or different colored text. That sort of stuff.
Ahhh true you do have a point, when I play RPGs I do love to be able to have an input on some things that are said, makes me get into the shoes of my character better, even if the dialogue choice just changes a few lines. Thanks for putting that into perspective c:

And the last point is a banger of an idea.
 
Jun 25, 2018
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413
I'd rather not have to deal with fake dialogue choices. It takes away from the experience for me, and ruins the flow of the story by bringing the reading to a halt to make an active choice. If the choice doesn't matter, I'm just jarred out of the reading experience for nothing and will start thinking all choices are pointless.
 
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Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
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I think I wouldn't mind, as long as dummy dialogue choices are not indistinguishable from the impactful ones. Either use the system entirely for dummy dialogue choices, entirely for meaningful choices, or if you have to mix them, indicate which ones are purely flavor with no impact on the story or gameplay. Ideally by showing the player what impact the meaningful choices are going to have (+relationship, +items, leads to a story path, whatever).
 
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desmosome

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Sep 5, 2018
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I think this type of choice is great for injecting some humor. Basically, you could have a normal response, flirty response, and the outlandishly insane response. Normally, you are unable to pick the extreme stuff that might offend a LI because it will subtract points or something. Making it a flavor choice lets people actually pick what they want to say without fear of consequences. Try Dungeon Town for an example of humorous choices without consequences (AFAIK).

Flavor choices as humor works for light hearted games, but obviously, it wouldn't fit for games with a more serious tone. For those, you can make use of flavor choices to improve the role playing factor. That's up to you really. I do think there is some benefit in flavor choices compared to only using choices that affect variables like love and lust. The variable choices can often seem forced from a meta game perspective (to follow the route that you want). Adding some flavor in there could give more sense of freedom, but well, it all depends on your execution I guess. Making it easy to distinguish flavor, minor, and major choices would be good.
 
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Daruko01

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May 7, 2017
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I'd rather not have to deal with fake dialogue choices. It takes away from the experience for me, and ruins the flow of the story by bringing the reading to a halt to make an active choice. If the choice doesn't matter, I'm just jarred out of the reading experience for nothing and will start thinking all choices are pointless.
That's fair, not wanting to have to spend time doing/reading something that is pointless. But what if they're few, only change a couple of lines and are added just for flavor? To give the player a chance to self-insert into the character a little better?

I think I wouldn't mind, as long as dummy dialogue choices are not indistinguishable from the impactful ones. Either use the system entirely for dummy dialogue choices, entirely for meaningful choices, or if you have to mix them, indicate which ones are purely flavor with no impact on the story or gameplay. Ideally by showing the player what impact the meaningful choices are going to have (+relationship, +items, leads to a story path, whatever).
How would you feel if the system is used almost entirely for dummy/flavor dialogue choices? Would you feel like it's a waste of time for you as a player? Or does the flavor help you to be more engaged in the game and dialogue? Ofc if I do end up using flavor choices, I won't use them super often as it probably can become annoying.

I think this type of choice is great for injecting some humor. Basically, you could have a normal response, flirty response, and the outlandishly insane response. Normally, you are unable to pick the extreme stuff that might offend a LI because it will subtract points or something. Making it a flavor choice lets people actually pick what they want to say without fear of consequences. Try Dungeon Town for an example of humorous choices without consequences (AFAIK).

Flavor choices as humor works for light hearted games, but obviously, it wouldn't fit for games with a more serious tone. For those, you can make use of flavor choices to improve the role playing factor. That's up to you really. I do think there is some benefit in flavor choices compared to only using choices that affect variables like love and lust. The variable choices can often seem forced from a meta game perspective (to follow the route that you want). Adding some flavor in there could give more sense of freedom, but well, it all depends on your execution I guess. Making it easy to distinguish flavor, minor, and major choices would be good.
That's usually how I feel tbh, a lot of times I overthink the dialogue choices and how it can affect the story and development with a character, in normal games and hentai games. I also don't really like it too much when a dialogue choice locks me out of a character/scene, unless it's a very replayable game.
 

Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
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How would you feel if the system is used almost entirely for dummy/flavor dialogue choices? Would you feel like it's a waste of time for you as a player? Or does the flavor help you to be more engaged in the game and dialogue? Ofc if I do end up using flavor choices, I won't use them super often as it probably can become annoying.
For starters, I generally wouldn't play a KN/VN without gameplay. In an actual game, whether I'd use a flavor-only dialogue system depends on a few things: the ratio of gameplay to cutscenes/essential dialogue, the fetishes (I'd be more inclined to use it in a game focused on character development, like a corruption game), and my investment in the character in question. I don't see myself choosing to talk to everyone in a game unless it's really gameplay-heavy so these optional interactions add some downtime to the gameplay, or I care about all the characters, or the writing is just that good that I want to see more of it in general.
 
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Jun 25, 2018
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That's fair, not wanting to have to spend time doing/reading something that is pointless. But what if they're few, only change a couple of lines and are added just for flavor? To give the player a chance to self-insert into the character a little better?
It would still feel pointless because in the end it changes nothing from the story. I wouldn't feel like I'm self-inserting because regardless if I pick choice A, B or C, I'm either going to get the same reply or there are no consequences so the character's reactions are meaningless. If you're wanting flavor, just stick to a set script. Even if you were to craft a different reaction to choice A, B, or C, it'll just create more complications for you because now the player was forced to make a choice and therefore will expect said reaction to have an impact on the character's development in the story.

I freely admit I'm in the minority after placing my vote in your poll.
 
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ClockworkGnome

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Sep 18, 2021
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I think a lot of people have already touched on what I was going to say.

Basically, how something is presented shapes your perception of the overall narrative flow. Even if multiple-choice options don't radically alter the direction of the story, the answers you're giving can still alter your perception of the main character, or the people around them. So your overall experience of the story will be slightly different (and you'll have more of a feeling of shaping your own destiny, even if it's mostly an illusion).

For example, let's say I'm in a game/story where the plot absolutely needs me to follow one friend (Bob) into a haunted forest to try and find/save another friend (Alice), and I'm given options like this:

a) Sure it's dangerous, but Alice might need help!
b) It's way too dangerous! I don't want to go... but Bob's going, and I can't let him go alone, right?
c) Damn it, I really don't want to go in there. But Bob's going, and it might be even more dangerous to try and go back the way we came alone... guess I'm stuck.
d) Ehh, yolo!

While from a mechanical perspective all four of those options are entirely identical (you and Bob are going to go into the forest), from a narrative perspective they all differ. The first tells me that the main character is loyal to their friends and wants to proactively save Alice. The second option makes the MC more hesitant, but still loyal enough to Bob (or just afraid of being called a coward) to not want to abandon him. The third option implies the MC is just too afraid to simply say no, and the fourth option implies the MC is either utterly fearless, utterly stupid, or extremely impulsive. My impression of just what sort of character the MC is is going to be different in all of those cases.

Another example of this sort of thing is from Knights of the Old Republic, when you're training to be a Jedi. When you're speaking to the Jedi Council, at one point in a conversation you're given the option to say something along the lines of "I promise I'll be good" or "I promise I'll be good [Lie]". It doesn't matter which one you choose - both lead to the exact same reply, and the game doesn't track your answer in any way for future conversations - but YOU as the player know the difference. Your perception of your character has now changed - either you are sincere in your intention to walk the noble path and use your powers for good, or you are already plotting to use your powers for evil and are deceiving these deluded fools who were stupid enough to trust you. One choice has allowed me to look at that main character in two very different ways.

Third example - in Fallout: New Vegas, you can have a conversation with one of your companions where she mentions fish. This being a post-apocalyptic world full of radioactive pollution, she pauses and asks if you know what fish are. You're given dialogue options to tell her you know what fish are, to act confused like you have no idea what a fish is, or to just sort of brusquely wave it off like it doesn't matter. None of those choices matter in any way - they don't really change anything in-game other than a few lines of dialogue in response. But which you choose tells you more about your character's past (maybe you're from a region that's healthy enough to have fish, maybe you're from a Vault and have never seen them, maybe you're well-read and have heard of fish from books, maybe you have no idea what fish are but are self-conscious enough to avoid the question, etc).

The important thing is to make sure whatever flavor choices you allow don't conflict with other things in the story. If I'm given a choice to say that I don't like someone, don't have the MC later blurt out how much they love that character without any player input. If I'm given the choice to enter the haunted forest enthusiastically, don't have the MC shout later that he never wanted to come in the first place. If I'm given the option to tell someone I'm into dudes and have never been with a girl, don't have my ex-girlfriend from college show up later and talk about all the sex we used to have. Future dialogue essentially needs to be neutral enough to make sense regardless of which previous options you've chosen.

I think those sorts of "pseudo-choices" are only really bad when the player feels like the choices don't matter at all. Like if you give me the option in-game to throw a knife at the bad guy, shoot him with a gun, or run away, don't have the knife and gun options both result in "You miss" and force me to run away anyway. That feels like a bait-and-switch and can frustrate players, making it even more obvious that they have no agency, which just makes choices feel a bit insulting/pointless. A choice should make it feel like there's absolutely a difference between the two options, even if its only in the relative short-term.

Telltale games are pretty notorious for this. Some people will complain that no matter what choices you always wind up following the same general plot and ending up in the same place anyway, but the real appeal of Telltale games was more about how those choices shaped the path you took to get to that ending. You still have the feeling of some agency over how a character reacts, and the power to shape their personality to some degree (even if its only in how you perceive them rather than how they're presented).
 
Mar 9, 2021
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I may have a slightly odd view on it, but I agree with what some of the other people said and have a couple things to add. If the choices themselves feel like something the main character would never say normally, and are only there to make you self insert, I feel less interested in them because it feels like a bit of a disconnect. I also like to see the writing in a game (what can I say, some people are good at this) and if the player choices are really well done, but I have to reload saves to see them all, it just feels slightly annoying. If poorly done, like only a line or two change, it doesn't really feel like an interaction to me. I do like to see dialog choices sometimes (these are games of a sort) but only in a way that is explorable and isn't detached from what the character actually is. A good example from me is Monster Girl Dreams from thresher. You can see what all paths lead to whenever you want and it's always interactable. But not every game is suited to ones tastes, and it's impossible to please everyone, so create what you would like and you will be more invested in making it for yourself. I wish you the best for your project, and I hope you have fun with it :)
 
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DuniX

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2016
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The idea of "Flags" and adding some Triggers to some Flags at some point isn't that hard to bring in some consequences to the game.
You don't need to write the game three times to have some choices.
 
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Daruko01

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May 7, 2017
356
608
I think a lot of people have already touched on what I was going to say.

Basically, how something is presented shapes your perception of the overall narrative flow. Even if multiple-choice options don't radically alter the direction of the story, the answers you're giving can still alter your perception of the main character, or the people around them. So your overall experience of the story will be slightly different (and you'll have more of a feeling of shaping your own destiny, even if it's mostly an illusion).

For example, let's say I'm in a game/story where the plot absolutely needs me to follow one friend (Bob) into a haunted forest to try and find/save another friend (Alice), and I'm given options like this:

a) Sure it's dangerous, but Alice might need help!
b) It's way too dangerous! I don't want to go... but Bob's going, and I can't let him go alone, right?
c) Damn it, I really don't want to go in there. But Bob's going, and it might be even more dangerous to try and go back the way we came alone... guess I'm stuck.
d) Ehh, yolo!

While from a mechanical perspective all four of those options are entirely identical (you and Bob are going to go into the forest), from a narrative perspective they all differ. The first tells me that the main character is loyal to their friends and wants to proactively save Alice. The second option makes the MC more hesitant, but still loyal enough to Bob (or just afraid of being called a coward) to not want to abandon him. The third option implies the MC is just too afraid to simply say no, and the fourth option implies the MC is either utterly fearless, utterly stupid, or extremely impulsive. My impression of just what sort of character the MC is is going to be different in all of those cases.

Another example of this sort of thing is from Knights of the Old Republic, when you're training to be a Jedi. When you're speaking to the Jedi Council, at one point in a conversation you're given the option to say something along the lines of "I promise I'll be good" or "I promise I'll be good [Lie]". It doesn't matter which one you choose - both lead to the exact same reply, and the game doesn't track your answer in any way for future conversations - but YOU as the player know the difference. Your perception of your character has now changed - either you are sincere in your intention to walk the noble path and use your powers for good, or you are already plotting to use your powers for evil and are deceiving these deluded fools who were stupid enough to trust you. One choice has allowed me to look at that main character in two very different ways.

Third example - in Fallout: New Vegas, you can have a conversation with one of your companions where she mentions fish. This being a post-apocalyptic world full of radioactive pollution, she pauses and asks if you know what fish are. You're given dialogue options to tell her you know what fish are, to act confused like you have no idea what a fish is, or to just sort of brusquely wave it off like it doesn't matter. None of those choices matter in any way - they don't really change anything in-game other than a few lines of dialogue in response. But which you choose tells you more about your character's past (maybe you're from a region that's healthy enough to have fish, maybe you're from a Vault and have never seen them, maybe you're well-read and have heard of fish from books, maybe you have no idea what fish are but are self-conscious enough to avoid the question, etc).

The important thing is to make sure whatever flavor choices you allow don't conflict with other things in the story. If I'm given a choice to say that I don't like someone, don't have the MC later blurt out how much they love that character without any player input. If I'm given the choice to enter the haunted forest enthusiastically, don't have the MC shout later that he never wanted to come in the first place. If I'm given the option to tell someone I'm into dudes and have never been with a girl, don't have my ex-girlfriend from college show up later and talk about all the sex we used to have. Future dialogue essentially needs to be neutral enough to make sense regardless of which previous options you've chosen.

I think those sorts of "pseudo-choices" are only really bad when the player feels like the choices don't matter at all. Like if you give me the option in-game to throw a knife at the bad guy, shoot him with a gun, or run away, don't have the knife and gun options both result in "You miss" and force me to run away anyway. That feels like a bait-and-switch and can frustrate players, making it even more obvious that they have no agency, which just makes choices feel a bit insulting/pointless. A choice should make it feel like there's absolutely a difference between the two options, even if its only in the relative short-term.

Telltale games are pretty notorious for this. Some people will complain that no matter what choices you always wind up following the same general plot and ending up in the same place anyway, but the real appeal of Telltale games was more about how those choices shaped the path you took to get to that ending. You still have the feeling of some agency over how a character reacts, and the power to shape their personality to some degree (even if its only in how you perceive them rather than how they're presented).
Holy fuck thank you for taking the time to type in such a lengthy response. And I guess yeah it's true, there are quite a lot of dialogues that are used to establish your character, their background and again, just add your own personality and flavour to the whole story. And I agree when it comes to the knife, gun example. I really hated having games where picking a choice would just force you into the other, or just give you constant game overs, cuz it then just became a game of guessing which choices wouldn't give you game overs, and it's pretty hard to get invested and nut to these games.

I may have a slightly odd view on it, but I agree with what some of the other people said and have a couple things to add. If the choices themselves feel like something the main character would never say normally, and are only there to make you self insert, I feel less interested in them because it feels like a bit of a disconnect. I also like to see the writing in a game (what can I say, some people are good at this) and if the player choices are really well done, but I have to reload saves to see them all, it just feels slightly annoying. If poorly done, like only a line or two change, it doesn't really feel like an interaction to me. I do like to see dialog choices sometimes (these are games of a sort) but only in a way that is explorable and isn't detached from what the character actually is. A good example from me is Monster Girl Dreams from thresher. You can see what all paths lead to whenever you want and it's always interactable. But not every game is suited to ones tastes, and it's impossible to please everyone, so create what you would like and you will be more invested in making it for yourself. I wish you the best for your project, and I hope you have fun with it :)
Hmmm yeah that's true. I adding some choices to what I already have written for my game, and I'm trying to make sure that the choices are all things that still keep a natural flow to the dialogue and things that aren't very out of character for your MC to say. I guess for now the dialogue choices will be a bit more along the just a few lines change as I don't want to have a massive rewrite as I got the script already written down for Chapter 1 of my game, but I'll definitely give more of a consideration to this when starting the script for the next parts of the game.
 
Mar 9, 2021
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That's kinda why I like these flavor text choices a bit more if they are done as part of repeatable events rather than main story choices. I know mine is one of those weird type of things, but I've seen far too many games where exploring all dialog or choices is exhausting rather than fun. If it's just light flavor text like you said, and done infrequently, it probably wouldn't bother me much to not explore it fully. And it is hard work making writing for these games already, try not to burn yourself out. Quality can suffer when the game steers away from what you like making. I recommend this video on game critique
 
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Niv-Mizzet the Firemind

Active Member
Mar 15, 2020
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1,119
I like having purely flavour dialogue choices because they change the narrative (however slightly) and my perception of the character(s), especially if the next couple lines of dialogue respond to the choice I made.
I'd like at some point in the game to have a couple of meaningful choices though. Another thing with the flavour choices is that there shouldn't be way too many of them imho. A game that does flavour choices well is Price of Power, if you want to see what I'm talking about.
Other than that, what clockwork gnome said.
 
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