Difference between Japan and EN visual novel?

[RibesNigrum]

I have been discussing this topic with my friends recently,

and what we have concluded is the CG is censored, (Pretty sure it's about the law in Japan.)

the story will mostly be completed (c'mon, they are products made by a company.)

To conclude, we are two rookies talking stuff that we don't have much idea.

I would like to know if someone can share their experience if they have been constantly exploring both east and west,

What is the difference between the novels, storytelling-wise?

Perhaps the Topic they choose, The Point of view, or something like how people use Visual Novels as a medium.

 

[Meaning Less]

Japanese is the mecca of VNs and manga, many popular anime shows started as either novels, visual novels or manga. So they are pretty big there even when there is no sexual content.

So the big difference already starts that many vns even those with sexual content will usually have a lot more plot and story, while western vns are much more focused on sexual content and less about plot or characters.

The culture is very different so everything from humor to the fetishes can be very dissimilar, even the censorship itself had a role at play here, tentacle and mosters stuff was done to circumvent censorship introduced after the world war, since they could not show people fucking maybe monsters are ok? and then it got even more popular and is now a staple of many games.
You know the saying "It is no nation we inhabit, but a language."

Sure you will find some exceptions here and there but for the most part they are two very different creatures.

 

[Yngling]

The culture of the writer / developer obviously has a huge impact on what kind of story they tell.

Often you can even distinguish between e.g. Russian, Spanish and British devs, just by the way they use the language and the topics they choose.

Personally I often have a hard time understanding Japanese stories. The women are too submissive, the MC's (especially the young boys) too clueless. I don't understand why they choose the things they are doing.

 

[Meaning Less]

Often you can even distinguish between e.g. Russian, Spanish and British devs, just by the way they use the language and the topics they choose.

I agree with this on a linguistic level, but on the originality level they aren't that far apart. Most western games are still trying to create more "realistic" content like real porn and stuff to appease to a more normie crowd for the most part.

Even the 3D graphics trying to resemble real people from DAZ or tk17 (western) is already a big jump from what you get with graphics used in honeyselect/koikatsu (eastern) that are intentionally less realistic and more geared towards the 2.5D area.

Which also explains why you find it hard to understand them, Japanese games are geared towards the anime crowd which is huge there, some western games are also geared towards cartoons here but it isn't nearly as strong as anime culture.

About the points you mentioned. Japanese people in general are more submissive they follow rules willingly and avoid disturbing others that's why characters tend to be more submissive, shota and loli are more popular and acceptable there which explains younger characters, and many cultural aspects that are ingrained in their games and shows that might seem weird from an outsider's perspective but are pretty well known tropes for the anime crowd.

 

[whippetmaster]

I'm an American who knows people who lived in either Europe or Japan. Japanese culture is markedly more male-dominated then European cultures and there's also a system of rigid social constructs. Those are to be followed as stated but any deviations from the norm are not well tolerated. I cannot overemphasize that. From what is told to me, there's a pervasive belief in the supernatural as well. What the role of mangas and animes apparently are is they push the Japanese culture as far as it it can go while providing an escape from the daily grind of that society.
Now, on the European side, it seems to me that they are more relaxed as far as roles and behavior are. Also worthy of note is that most "Western" novels aren't afraid to lampoon politics or bring up famous dead people. So most "Western" vns tend to focus on topical, political, or or just plain sexual shenanigans.

 

[Meaning Less]

From what is told to me, there's a pervasive belief in the supernatural as well.

In case you want to go deeper, the reason for this point is that the local religion (

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) is deeply rooted in supernatural deities. And shintou temples are very popular visiting places to this date where people go for praying and fortune telling.

 

[gunderson]

Oh, pretty simple really.
Japan is a country. It has a population of about 125 million people; mostly exports cars and vehicle parts, integrated circuits, personal appliances, and ships; its major language is Japanese; and the primary religions practiced are Buddhism and Shintoism (source:

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).

English-language visual novels are generally porn games made in ren'py that have a maximum of four lines of text per screen and have relatively large images compared to the size of the text. They are generally uncensored (unlike Japanese-language visual novels), but like machine translated Japanese games may also contain poor English. Many of them are currently in development and release in-progress updates, and are funded by and created by independent teams rather than by companies; Japanese-language visual novels are generally released as completed experiences and developed by companies. English-language visual novels do not contain a real-world population, practice no religion, have no exports or imports, and are not officially recognized by the UN; unlike the country of Japan which, again, is a country and not a visual novel at all.

 

[desmosome]

There will be exceptions to everything, but the biggest generalization we could make is that Japanese VNs are driven by the text (and VA), while western VNs are mainly driven by visuals.

Japanese VNs are closer to novels. You read and read. The visual representation is almost entirely done by floating sprites on a background. H-scenes feature 1-3 CGs with some variations but last a fuckton longer than any western VN scenes. You could be reading for an hour without making ANY choices. Most Japanese VNs do have routes, so it wouldn't really classify as a kinetic novel, but the choices are very few but each are route significant.

Western VNs use 3DCG in the overwhelming majority of cases. Sometimes they use floating 3D sprites on static backgrounds, but I think more of them do simulated or fully rendered scenes even for non-H scenes. This means there is more emphasis on the visual representation. The insistence on animation by both devs and players is another clue to the importance of the visual side. There is also a MUCH higher emphasis on freedom. I guess that is rugged individualism for ya. Not too many VNs, sandbox or otherwise, actually succeed in delivering this freedom (at least for me), but the effort is made. There are a shitload of choices compared to Japanese VNs.

Just so we're clear, I think everyone so far, me included, are talking about Japanese VNs and not counting the RPGM stuff. RPGM have some similar qualities, but it's produced and presented in a rather different way than the VNs that are mostly done by full fledged studios.

 

[Jofur]

The big difference to me is that I play Japanese VN's to enjoy the story. The porn is often very lackluster and basic, and in some cases even detrimental. but overall they are more like a nice little bonus to an otherwise cute little romance drama. Of course there are more straight up porn-VN's with frequent sex scenes, but I haven't played many of them.

With western VN's I'm here for the porn, and it's the story that's the bonus. But I don't play them very often since I prefer my porn games to have some minor amount of gameplay/freedom. Even if it's just token affection points or "open world" movement.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There will be exceptions to everything, but the biggest generalization we could make is that Japanese VNs are driven by the text (and VA), while western VNs are mainly driven by visuals.

To what you said have to be added that the funding approach is radically different. And this is also a very important point.

While an author from the Western side would have an idea, and start his game hopping to be able to fund it with the help of the community, a indie Japanese author (there's more than people seem to think according to this thread) will wait to have saved enough to works full time on his story.
The difference isn't limited to the fact that the Japanese game/VN will be released finished. It also have an influence on the story itself and how polished the game will be. The Western author develop his story while he develop the game, having at most the big lines of what will happen. This while the Japanese author waited years before being able to works on his game. And obviously he wasn't passive during this time, he made some draft for the scenes, some sketches for the visual, and so one. The moment he will start effectively making his game, he already know everything and can focus on the realization and to polish the result.


An other difference can generally be found on the kind of story told by the game.

Western stories are generally experimentation around a given situation. There's this MC, who face this situation, lets see what can happen. That's part of the reason why Western VN are generally heavy on choice ; what if the MC prefer to do this instead of that ? Each choice tweak a bit of the story, but unless it's an obvious "take or leave" choice, it's the accumulation of choice that will change the route followed. The girl will be more or less in love, by example, but still be in love.
At the opposite, Japanese stories tend to be a narration, they tell an effective story as it could have happened. It's the reason why there's really few choices, and most of them are heavily important. Those choices aren't here to tweak the story, but to determine if the MC want to romance this girl or not, and later what kind of relation the girl herself agree to have. There's not really grey situation in those stories. Either the girl is in love, or she isn't. Then she can possibly be a close friend, but she'll never be "partly in love" like it happen in Western stories.

 

[Meaning Less]

It's the reason why there's really few choices, and most of them are heavily important. Those choices aren't here to tweak the story, but to determine if the MC want to romance this girl or not, and later what kind of relation the girl herself agree to have. There's not really grey situation in those stories.

I believe you are just talking about smaller vns, it really depends on what vns we are talking about, bigger vns have hours of content and each option will take you to an entirely unique route with new characters and locations because they are made to be replayed and you usually just get the true ending after finishing all routes. Some even have full fledged games inside them from strategy to points management.

Btw I also was just comparing it with vns because that was the main question but there are also plenty of games in general in japan (short and long) with similar points and sandbox systems like we have here, they just aren't sold as vns but games and usually have 2d graphics instead of prerendered.
Not to mention the big elephant in the room, JRPGS which were so popular there to the point that it spawned RPGM engine and a horde of fanmade rpg games followed it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I believe you are just talking about smaller vns, it really depends on what vns we are talking about, bigger vns have hours of content and each option will take you to an entirely unique route with new characters and locations because they are made to be replayed and you usually just get the true ending after finishing all routes. Some even have full fledged games inside them from strategy to points management.

So, in short, Japaneses VNs have only significant choices, and only the perfect path can lead you to the "happy" ending... What is exactly what I said ; even if you limit my post to what you quoted.

Btw I also was just comparing it with vns because [...]

Comparing what to VN, and why exactly are you saying me this ?


Your whole answer make absolutely no sense :/
You disagree with what I said, by repeating exactly what I said, then you talk about... well I have no clue what you are talking about since it's not something I talked about, reacted to, nor even vaguely addressed, in my post. All this acting as if I was directly talking to you, while you aren't the person I quoted...

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

I don't play many japanese VNs (relatively speaking) as the majority of them are romance oriented, which I don't really like. But I do play those based around corruption and degradation. And all I can say is the thing I hate most about them is the humongous amount of text devoid of any relevant or interesting information. They tend to have bloated descriptions for every tiny detail, unfiltered walls worth of MC's thoughts, and don't get me started about the absolutely useless full paragraphs of onomatopeias for the moaning that you can already hear.

I do love the art and themes on some of these VN, but this shit can seriously butcher all of the enjoyment out of them.

 

[Yngling]

I agree with this on a linguistic level, but on the originality level they aren't that far apart.

To give some very generalised examples, Russian games tend to have more traditional women, often in a "helpless victim" role, and generally feel more "heavy". Spanish games tend to have more references to football and generally feel more "light". Of course this is generalising and there are plenty of examples where this kind of cultural bias is not so clear. On the other hand, I kind of like such cultural references, it makes a game feel more realistic.

About the points you mentioned. Japanese people in general are more submissive they follow rules willingly and avoid disturbing others that's why characters tend to be more submissive, shota and loli are more popular and acceptable there which explains younger characters, and many cultural aspects that are ingrained in their games and shows that might seem weird from an outsider's perspective but are pretty well known tropes for the anime crowd.

Exactly, but since I am not Japanese nor particularly interested in their culture, it just feels weird for me.

 

[Meaning Less]

So, in short, Japaneses VNs have only significant choices, and only the perfect path can lead you to the "happy" ending... What is exactly what I said ; even if you limit my post to what you quoted.

It was just a small correction that big vns also can have a lot of repetitition and a bunch of insignificant choices PLUS significant choices (not only).
While western vns usually avoid significant choices altogether since writing multiple paths takes lot of work that many won't see since "western players" aren't used to replaying their vns to unlock everything, so all branches tend to return to the same trunk asap.

 

[S3vatari0n]

...so all branches tend to return to the same trunk asap.

So, basically a kinetic novel with extra steps. You get the occasional one that breaks the mold though (GGGB).

 

[Meaning Less]

So, basically a kinetic novel with extra steps. You get the occasional one that breaks the mold though (GGGB).

Exactly, I really believe the kinetic novel tag should be applied to more western games, right now a bunch of games that just have "fake" choices or even linear sandbox mechanics that only let you do things in order still manage to avoid the tag.

 

[Losersriot]

The best stories in porn games I have seen only in Japanese games. But the best art is in Western games. 'Anime' drawing style this is a cancerous tumor of Japanese culture. If Japanese plots and stories were accompanied by a Western type of realistic art, it would be the greatest revolution in world culture.

 

[desmosome]

I don't play many japanese VNs (relatively speaking) as the majority of them are romance oriented, which I don't really like. But I do play those based around corruption and degradation. And all I can say is the thing I hate most about them is the humongous amount of text devoid of any relevant or interesting information. They tend to have bloated descriptions for every tiny detail, unfiltered walls worth of MC's thoughts, and don't get me started about the absolutely useless full paragraphs of onomatopeias for the moaning that you can already hear.

I do love the art and themes on some of these VN, but this shit can seriously butcher all of the enjoyment out of them.

This is a common take by westerners. The japanese style of overly drawn out sex scenes is not something you see much in western porn. JAV vs western porn videos even show this trend to an extent, but it becomes very clear when you compare porn comics or porn games. I think it's hentai culture at play. Hentai culture depicts sex in some pretty unnatural ways, especially for the more hardcore types that involve female degradation and submission. You have woman narrating what is happening to them. "Oooooahhahhhah, this huge cock is reshaping my pussyyyy~~~ ooohahh I am a horrible mother who begs for her son's cock~~~~ UFhahhooowooo AWEFPOawjefjawoefjo AHaHAHHGGHOOOOOO ~~~~! My mind is going blank ~~~~ Fahweihfiwehafi IKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~~!!" This goes on and on for a long time, with the male degrading the woman and the woman degrading herself.

I fucking love stuff like this though lol. I need time to fap. And I derive much more arousal from the text and circumstances of the scene than the visual depiction of it. I can't do text only, but even a single CG would work. A style that is more common in the west is to have animations and stills that visualize the scene in a more dynamic way, but they skimp on the dialogue, sometimes being limited to something like "Ohhhh fuck me~~~!" "Yes~ Harder!" "I'm gonna cum!" End scene. If you just read the text and not sit there watching a 3 second loop for an unreasonably long time, the scene might end in like 20 seconds.

Of course, there are western devs that do a great job drawing out the scene with good sex dialogues and nice ramp up throughout the scene too.

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

This is a common take by westerners. The japanese style of overly drawn out sex scenes is not something you see much in western porn. JAV vs western porn videos even show this trend to an extent, but it becomes very clear when you compare porn comics or porn games. I think it's hentai culture at play. Hentai culture depicts sex in some pretty unnatural ways, especially for the more hardcore types that involve female degradation and submission. You have woman narrating what is happening to them. "Oooooahhahhhah, this huge cock is reshaping my pussyyyy~~~ ooohahh I am a horrible mother who begs for her son's cock~~~~ UFhahhooowooo AWEFPOawjefjawoefjo AHaHAHHGGHOOOOOO ~~~~! My mind is going blank ~~~~ Fahweihfiwehafi IKUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU~~!!" This goes on and on for a long time, with the male degrading the woman and the woman degrading herself.

I fucking love stuff like this though lol. I need time to fap. And I derive much more arousal from the text and circumstances of the scene than the visual depiction of it. I can't do text only, but even a single CG would work. A style that is more common in the west is to have animations and stills that visualize the scene in a more dynamic way, but they skimp on the dialogue, sometimes being limited to something like "Ohhhh fuck me~~~!" "Yes~ Harder!" "I'm gonna cum!" End scene. If you just read the text and not sit there watching a 3 second loop for an unreasonably long time, the scene might end in like 20 seconds.

Of course, there are western devs that do a great job drawing out the scene with good sex dialogues and nice ramp up throughout the scene too.

Well, I do like that in hentai manga too, probably because I can easily skew over the text at my own discretion if I want to, take it slow only where one most enjoy, and you can digest every page pretty easily. Plus there's a lot more variety in the drawing too, as oposed to the static and long winded CGs in japanese VNs. I guess that format combination just doesn't work for me. I also don't like those classic 20 sec weg scenes, so I'm quite fucked to be honest. And I become pickier every passing year. If only there were more games in between those extremes.