Do you prefer self-insert stories or playing as someone else?

[yz.en_]

Hey there, I'm once again asking for your help



Well after thinking about things with the help of the advice I got from developers in here, I decided to create a small game to start with before creating bigger and better ones. It would be a nice way to introduce myself to the community as well. So, here's the question.

Do you prefer self-insert or living someone else's life in the games you play? I'm currently writing the game I wanna create for my first game at least to next year. (2023) It will be a short game and will be made with 2D visual art drawn by me. For anyone curious about what the story will be I'll give you a brief overview.

Spoiler: Prototype Plot

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Spoiler: Prototype Plot

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Possible content: [Incest, Mother, Sister, Cheating, Voyeurism, Drugs, Pet play, Corruption, Breath Play, Slut Outfits, Drama, Femboy (optional), Sexual Addiction] and many more if I felt like it.

What do you think?

 

[F1_V10]

I prefer self insert stories, especially because that is the reason I chose AVN's instead of porn. If all I wanted to was fap, I could find a worthwhile video, is what I feel.

But, then again a part of the playerbase just wanna fap so, they might be alright with playing as someone else, or not play at all, just skip to sex parts.

Possible content and many more, seems promising as hell. Am neutral abt incest so there's that too.

Any extreme content/fetish(eg.NTR) should be mentioned upfront or the forum will rip you apart for breaking their apparent 'trust'. The specific case being say a LI having fun with another LI (girl on girl) before MC is in the picture is apparently NTR for some.

If there is a harem route, its a welcome bonus.

 

[yz.en_]

I prefer self insert stories, especially because that is the reason I chose AVN's instead of porn. If all I wanted to was fap, I could find a worthwhile video, is what I feel.

But, then again a part of the playerbase just wanna fap so, they might be alright with playing as someone else, or not play at all, just skip to sex parts.

Possible content and many more, seems promising as hell. Am neutral abt incest so there's that too.

Any extreme content/fetish(eg.NTR) should be mentioned upfront or the forum will rip you apart for breaking their apparent 'trust'. The specific case being say a LI having fun with another LI (girl on girl) before MC is in the picture is apparently NTR for some.

If there is a harem route, its a welcome bonus.

Oh thanks for your response! Well I'll say this now, the MC's actions will rip their family apart, so there will be NTR in a sense for the dad. He will later on be forced to leave the story after some events I've come up with in the game.

And of course, harem will always be the way. Where's the fun if you can't have them all? I plan to make a really kinky game so yeah. Lots of content if I were to expand this one.

Oh and before you wonder if this is gonna become a shitty story, well I guess it depends. I plan to make the girls fall inlove with the MC despite the stuff he's doing to them. It will just be the dad who'll end up in a broken state after finding out what's happening behind his back. I'll handle things carefully though, I know I'd be able to execute this story in a way where the characters learn to live their new life and move on.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

The only time I'd self-insert would be in a game with deep character customization, where I can create something roughly similar to me IRL, and I get enough freedom to act as I would. So basically just those kitchen-sink text-only games. Otherwise, I'm just a puppet-master/spectator, and in fact I prefer female-MC games in order to cut out the middleman. I absolutely don't want to be stuck controlling [generic 18-year-old male who looks 15 and wants to bang his whole extended family]. Annoying horndog male MCs actively detract from my enjoyment.

 

[yz.en_]

The only time I'd self-insert would be in a game with deep character customization, where I can create something roughly similar to me IRL, and I get enough freedom to act as I would. So basically just those kitchen-sink text-only games. Otherwise, I'm just a puppet-master/spectator, and in fact I prefer female-MC games in order to cut out the middleman. I absolutely don't want to be stuck controlling [generic 18-year-old male who looks 15 and wants to bang his whole extended family]. Annoying horndog male MCs actively detract from my enjoyment.

Hmm I see, well I don't plan on writing my MC that way, I want him to have reasons and motive to do it. Most likely because of his hatred for his own father. I guess he can be a bit sadistic. The family is flawed which is why the MC easily takes advantage of situations on top of his own curiosity. No it' not about all sex either. There will be narrative breaks to get the players know more of why he ended up growing the way he is as well as fleshing out the mother's character. The sister, not so much. She' just overall innocent. The father has a complex personality. The MC has a complex mind and an odd view of the world around him. I guess I will have to delve into some philosophy in my writing.

In the end, it's just a corruption game but with a story devised to keep the players interested into playing while commiting depraved acts and capturing the human's raw emotion/connection that develops through committing these kind of taboos.

The MC can be manipulative and controlling but he also has his own internal debates. No I wont write anything annoying and I wont do it as often as you think. He will be given choices whether he wants to commit it or not. I guess I might as well make branched endings. I'm not sure how much of this I wanna develop for my first game, I might even divide it to parts. I want it slow burning and not rushed. I want to leave my players wanting more.

 

[F1_V10]

I'm just a puppet-master/spectator, and in fact I prefer female-MC games in order to cut out the middleman. I absolutely don't want to be stuck controlling [generic 18-year-old male who looks 15 and wants to bang his whole extended family]. Annoying horndog male MCs actively detract from my enjoyment.

This 100%. I forgot to add that. You see, if the game has meaningful choices that help shape the character of MC, then yes self insert should work better. But if it really is a kinetic novel with choices for the LI's and story is bare bones., then it is less appealing, IMHO.
Then again, a basic harem novel with a good story doesn't need very varied/different choices either, for example Limitless by Cr8tive M3dia falls somewhere in that gray zone. It has a decent story, and choices are predominantly straight forward but is a great game. Or MEF is a harem game with no story choices whatsoever, but works fine. For a first game by a dev, this is the least cumbersome path as adding many paths and variations complicates both code and story, making it easy to burn out.

At the same time, MNF is my worst experience, there is nothing interesting, just renders and renders that convey the same shit different story with no issue to solve. And also, the sex is 'wham-bham-thankyou-mam style'. Never do that, instead sprinkle some slow-burns, flirting, teasing, foreplay, dirty talk and so many other things can be added to make it exciting.

NTR in a sense for the dad

Well, if son is MC, then that is Netori, not a huge issue for harem fans I think, being the bull. Hopefully we don't play from dad's perspective. Again, be clear about this by the time the game drops or the thread will be butchered.

 

[yz.en_]

This 100%. I forgot to add that. You see, if the game has meaningful choices that help shape the character of MC, then yes self insert should work better. But if it really is a kinetic novel with choices for the LI's and story is bare bones., then it is less appealing, IMHO.
Then again, a basic harem novel with a good story doesn't need very varied/different choices either, for example Limitless by Cr8tive M3dia falls somewhere in that gray zone. It has a decent story, and choices are predominantly straight forward but is a great game. Or MEF is a harem game with no story choices whatsoever, but works fine. For a first game by a dev, this is the least cumbersome path as adding many paths and variations complicates both code and story, making it easy to burn out.

At the same time, MNF is my worst experience, there is nothing interesting, just renders and renders that convey the same shit different story with no issue to solve. And also, the sex is 'wham-bham-thankyou-mam style'. Never do that, instead sprinkle some slow-burns, flirting, teasing, foreplay, dirty talk and so many other things can be added to make it exciting.

Well, if son is MC, then that is Netori, not a huge issue for harem fans I think, being the bull. Hopefully we don't play from dad's perspective. Again, be clear about this by the time the game drops or the thread will be butchered.

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind. I already wrote down the scenes I want shaping the narrative of the story. It's just a slow descent to depravity and addiction to famillial connection. Others might really get turned off by the idea but it is what it is.

This game would feature crazy sexual fantasies and straight out taboo but with meaningful story.

EDIT:
I know most of you would want a vanilla route out of this story but that would ruin the consistency of my game. I don't want the MC going back and fourth with his actions not matching his perception. Still, the MC is human and not completely devoid of familial love so you would see him still caring for his family even after turning them into his sluts.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Do you prefer self-insert or living someone else's life in the games you play?

While there's way to help the player to self-insert, it's more a personal behavior than anything else.
Take action movies by example, how many times, especially during your youth, have you left the movie theater with this feeling that you just lived a marvelous adventure ? The movie wasn't designed for you to self-insert into its story, yet it's what unconsciously happened.

Whatever you try, if players want to self-insert in MC's shoes, they'll do it. And if they don't want, you can use all the tricks you want (high level of customization, 1st person point of view every where, 1st person writing, not a single line of narration, etc), they'll not self-insert.

Therefore, write your game the way you feel at ease with, and let the players decide if they'll self-insert or not.

 

[yz.en_]

While there's way to help the player to self-insert, it's more a personal behavior than anything else.
Take action movies by example, how many times, especially during your youth, have you left the movie theater with this feeling that you just lived a marvelous adventure ? The movie wasn't designed for you to self-insert into its story, yet it's what unconsciously happened.

Whatever you try, if players want to self-insert in MC's shoes, they'll do it. And if they don't want, you can use all the tricks you want (high level of customization, 1st person point of view every where, 1st person writing, not a single line of narration, etc), they'll not self-insert.

Therefore, write your game the way you feel at ease with, and let the players decide if they'll self-insert or not.

Damn that makes so much sense honestly. Debating whether to give the players the choice to name the MC theirself or not is what I've been confused with. The writing is a-no-problem for me. I'll use a 1st person and 3rd person type of story telling in the mix with various character perspective tho of course the MC is predominant.

Should I write a whole different thread about my game and what will its content be, what to expect and stuff?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Debating whether to give the players the choice to name the MC theirself or not is what I've been confused with.

Present the choice, providing a default name. Problem solved.
If the player want to feel a bit more invested he will use a name of his own, else he will hit enter and use the name you decided for him.

Should I write a whole different thread about my game and what will its content be, what to expect and stuff?

Up to you to decide if it worth it or not, and if it's needed or not. If you do so, do it in the programming, development and art section, where the others "here's the game I'm working on and will release soon" are.

 

[yz.en_]

Present the choice, providing a default name. Problem solved.
If the player want to feel a bit more invested he will use a name of his own, else he will hit enter and use the name you decided for him.




Up to you to decide if it worth it or not, and if it's needed or not. If you do so, do it in the programming, development and art section, where the others "here's the game I'm working on and will release soon" are.

Ohhh thanks for this! Well honestly maybe I'll give it some time before I post anything. I'll start etiting the story soon. I don't wanna build hype around my game and failing to deliver it. Plus making visuals will take me ages xD considering the scenes I had in mind.. Oh boy.

Anyway thanks for the help!

 

[Cr8tive M3dia]

This 100%. I forgot to add that. You see, if the game has meaningful choices that help shape the character of MC, then yes self insert should work better. But if it really is a kinetic novel with choices for the LI's and story is bare bones., then it is less appealing, IMHO.
Then again, a basic harem novel with a good story doesn't need very varied/different choices either, for example Limitless by Cr8tive M3dia falls somewhere in that gray zone. It has a decent story, and choices are predominantly straight forward but is a great game. Or MEF is a harem game with no story choices whatsoever, but works fine. For a first game by a dev, this is the least cumbersome path as adding many paths and variations complicates both code and story, making it easy to burn out.

At the same time, MNF is my worst experience, there is nothing interesting, just renders and renders that convey the same shit different story with no issue to solve. And also, the sex is 'wham-bham-thankyou-mam style'. Never do that, instead sprinkle some slow-burns, flirting, teasing, foreplay, dirty talk and so many other things can be added to make it exciting.

Well, if son is MC, then that is Netori, not a huge issue for harem fans I think, being the bull. Hopefully we don't play from dad's perspective. Again, be clear about this by the time the game drops or the thread will be butchered.

Thank you kindly. Glad you are enjoying the story so far

 

[yz.en_]

Malaficus Nagozo

 

[Nagozo]

Malaficus Nagozo

Hello there.
My personal playstyle leans more towards self-inserting, in the sense that I'll take into account the MCs characterisation but impose my own personality over it. I think AON hits the nail on the head, though; it's very much up to player preference and you're not going to convince a player to adopt the opposite stance.

All that being said, I think it's worth considering the more practical aspects of writing an MC. You already indicate that the MC is going to be a person of his own with certain motives and personality:

Hmm I see, well I don't plan on writing my MC that way, I want him to have reasons and motive to do it. Most likely because of his hatred for his own father. I guess he can be a bit sadistic. The family is flawed which is why the MC easily takes advantage of situations on top of his own curiosity. No it' not about all sex either. There will be narrative breaks to get the players know more of why he ended up growing the way he is as well as fleshing out the mother's character

This is normal, and sets you up for a more fluid story. The problem with MCs that are designed to allow a high degree of self-insertion, is that you need to write a blank-slate MC that at the same time allows the story to move forward. That's quite challenging, and it's easy to end up with a boring cardboard cutout who's just getting dragged along.

The way I deal with it in my story is using three personality traits that are developed throughout the story by the player's choices. I'm going the text-only route, so that allows me to focus on adding many variations to scenes to reflect what kind of character the MC becomes. I'm trying to avoid explicit 'forced' characterisation (to the point where the MC doesn't have any literal dialogue lines), but it's pretty much impossible to write an MC that the player can get immersed in without giving them any sort of inner life of their own. At least, those are my experiences -- making a VN is a different kind of challenge so I probably don't have the full picture.

 

[yz.en_]

Hello there.
My personal playstyle leans more towards self-inserting, in the sense that I'll take into account the MCs characterisation but impose my own personality over it. I think AON hits the nail on the head, though; it's very much up to player preference and you're not going to convince a player to adopt the opposite stance.

All that being said, I think it's worth considering the more practical aspects of writing an MC. You already indicate that the MC is going to be a person of his own with certain motives and personality:

This is normal, and sets you up for a more fluid story. The problem with MCs that are designed to allow a high degree of self-insertion, is that you need to write a blank-slate MC that at the same time allows the story to move forward. That's quite challenging, and it's easy to end up with a boring cardboard cutout who's just getting dragged along.

The way I deal with it in my story is using three personality traits that are developed throughout the story by the player's choices. I'm going the text-only route, so that allows me to focus on adding many variations to scenes to reflect what kind of character the MC becomes. I'm trying to avoid explicit 'forced' characterisation (to the point where the MC doesn't have any literal dialogue lines), but it's pretty much impossible to write an MC that the player can get immersed in without giving them any sort of inner life of their own. At least, those are my experiences -- making a VN is a different kind of challenge so I probably don't have the full picture.

Thanks for the response! I sent you a message btw. I'll most likely just make the game head into a linear way for my first time. I just wanna let people be immersed into the MCs story and watch him make his own choices within the game. You'll understand when you check my dm

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

I find this question hard to answer, as I see here at least 3 dimensions, which are touched by this. This is:
*immersion
*perspective
*identification

For the first one:
This is in my eyes always important in a game.

The second one:
Pure first person perspective could be interesting for a mostly voyeuristic game or when we actually have real virtual reality settings or 3D-Games, but for the current VNs it restricts for my personal taste to much the use of other visual stylistic devices in sex-scenes. Thus I prefer either 3rd person-perspective or mixes between 1st person and 3rd person.

Regarding identification:
I find both interesting. It is interesting to play a char, who I like and I can mostly identify with, who is meeting characters in a lewd and somehow "perfect" world. But to a certain point, I also like to play MCs, who I mostly can't identify with, especially when their actions go quite against my inner moral compass but somehow feed my nether instincts very well (like in "the headmaster").

 

[yz.en_]

I find this question hard to answer, as I see here at least 3 dimensions, which are touched by this. This is:
*immersion
*perspective
*identification

For the first one:
This is in my eyes always important in a game.

The second one:
Pure first person perspective could be interesting for a mostly voyeuristic game or when we actually have real virtual reality settings or 3D-Games, but for the current VNs it restricts for my personal taste to much the use of other visual stylistic devices in sex-scenes. Thus I prefer either 3rd person-perspective or mixes between 1st person and 3rd person.

Regarding identification:
I find both interesting. It is interesting to play a char, who I like and I can mostly identify with, who is meeting characters in a lewd and somehow "perfect" world. But to a certain point, I also like to play MCs, who I mostly can't identify with, especially when their actions go quite against my inner moral compass but somehow feed my nether instincts very well (like in "the headmaster").

Thanks for sharing your input!

Regarding about identification, it is tricky and it really depends on what kind of story you prefer yourself to immerse with. I guess, not everyone would like the game I'm trying to create as a first game since I'm trying to be unapologetic and true to the content I aim to deliver. It is fiction and within a certain niche that would attract a specofic type of group. I wont necessarily build my brand around this kind of game though. There's so much story to tell out there. But yeah, until then, I'll focus on what I wanna make. Thanks again!

 

[Rafster]

For me, I can do both. But MCs with a predefined story and personality have a problem: Some players might not connect to them, specially if they have strong views or opinions.

In my current game, my MC is kind of a hybrid between the two, with some customization (Avatar, name, background -which I need to figure out how to implement- and attitude) but he has a past story, and certain events that shape initially his personality, but he's kinda a self insert MC. The narrative style encourages it.

Now, for the next, it will be a predefined character, with his own personality, opinions, flaws and virtues. It's a double edged sword, because I know part of my current player base may not like it. But I'm not changing that.

So pick whatever you like the most.

A word of advice with the femboy. On this site, femboy = gay tag. You'll have tons of questions of people asking if he's avoidable, or how much gay content is on it. If you plan to leave it as a one night stand, or have him as a full fledged love interest with his own ending, make it clear on the dev notes. I'm not a fan of femboys at all, but hey, the first rule is to attend your tastes, and if you like femboys, go for it.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

I mostly play self inserts because i am awesome.
It is also more immersive when i feel like i am making the choices.
I find myself not caring about the mc if i dont self insert.
He becomes just an other npc for me to break.
It can work.
But it takes way more effort for me to care about some whiny ass bitch who is getting laid then imagining i am getting laid via an ingame avatar.

General speaking i prefer it if the main characters thoughts are limited to hints where to go next and there dialog to be polite.
Mostly because i find cursing and being rude beneath my superior station.

A suggestion for your mc given the story you shown so far:
Give him a morality system that they player need to lower to get him to do more and more evil things.
It will be modded out within 15 seconds because players hate that kind of delay.
But i think it could add to the story when you have the main character struggle between his lust and his morals.
After all it is more fun when it is forbidden.
But to accauly sleep with your mother or sister.
That isnt something that shoud come easy if you have been raised your whole life on how bad it is.

I think self corruption is an underused gameplay.

Still i am proud of you for knowing your limits and starting small.
And your drive to make a game.

I wish you luck.
And remember: Take breaks.
I know how mindnumbing error fixing is.

 

[yz.en_]

For me, I can do both. But MCs with a predefined story and personality have a problem: Some players might not connect to them, specially if they have strong views or opinions.

In my current game, my MC is kind of a hybrid between the two, with some customization (Avatar, name, background -which I need to figure out how to implement- and attitude) but he has a past story, and certain events that shape initially his personality, but he's kinda a self insert MC. The narrative style encourages it.

Now, for the next, it will be a predefined character, with his own personality, opinions, flaws and virtues. It's a double edged sword, because I know part of my current player base may not like it. But I'm not changing that.

So pick whatever you like the most.

A word of advice with the femboy. On this site, femboy = gay tag. You'll have tons of questions of people asking if he's avoidable, or how much gay content is on it. If you plan to leave it as a one night stand, or have him as a full fledged love interest with his own ending, make it clear on the dev notes. I'm not a fan of femboys at all, but hey, the first rule is to attend your tastes, and if you like femboys, go for it.

Well my game has a linear story. I do understand that as an interactive visual novel game, making your own choices matters because if not it will just feel like a Kinetic Novel. But, since I have the base I can work with, I can branch it out as well and expand it on a bit. The only branching part I've deviced rn is the harem route and the non-harem route. That the MC will either force the mom to accept the incest family harem or the MC will continue to fuck both of them behind their backs. I think both situation could be appealing either way.

Predefined characters? If it's the MC then with the story I have rn he is currently predefined. But I guess for now, I'll think if it would do my game good or ruin the story. I have a lot to adjust to the story flow if I were to make the MC the players own person. Still an interesting take, thanks!

About the femboy content. Well if that's what it id then I'll just hint a bit of it from the initial game and cut it out for a bonus story if enough people liked it.