Does anyone know if Patreon has any sort of "off site" policy or enforcement? I find it hard to believe that they do.

[amBest]

I'm probably never going to make a game. That's just how things are. But I've always fantasized about it. Professionally I'm a software developer, so making a game that isn't designed in the most stupid way possible isn't exactly a big deal, it's rather trivial. In my spare time, I make horrible games much less horrible. But I don't have the time to actually release anything. So I take things like Straitened Times. I take stupid ass event triggers that rely on the IRL moon phase to trigger. And turn them into something less insane. Fix the grammar if I'm already messing with the scripts. Things like that.

But if I was ever to make a game, I'd make one that is very not "general audience". Heavy focus on incest, start it with all the vanilla stuff, and go into much less vanilla stuff. And I'm simply not willing to compromise the game for thought police. I want it to be clearly in your face about it. Explosive about it.

This means, quite clearly, that I can't post the game on patreon at all. So here come question #1. Does patreon acutally track you off site in any way? I find the notion preposterous. Ofc they don't. But I don't actually know. It's so much plausible deniability that I'd be shocked if they did.

This also segways into the second topic. If I were ever to actually do this and make the game, I need to justify the time and effort and at least hope on making SOME money. I don't mean "if by version 0.3, I'm not making 4 grand, I quit!" I'm the kind of person who loves to grind. Make 2 decent, but very small in scope, games. Show that I can produce quality work. Probably try and find a ghost writer cuz half the reason I'm not making these games is that I can't write to save my life. Then for the 3rd or 4th game, go for something big. Like a real-time rendering 3d game (as opposed to screenshots of 3d renders).

Thing is. I don't mind making less than what I do at my day job. But I can't justify making monthly $2k either (if I'd consider going full time). That would be a tremendous downgrade on my life quality. But I don't want to put the game on Patreon. I want just to post dev updates there, and maybe a render or two for the fans. However, since the game wouldn't be behind a paywall. Yes, I'm talking about a paywall on a pirate site. But I don't know. I think the paywall really does produce money. Not everyone is tech savy. Not everyone will find a site like this. Some people will see it on one of those super sketchy sites. No forum, no commments, no reviews. Just the name, some screenshots, and a rapidgator link.

So not putting it behind a paywall. That might just mean people won't sub. Because if it's readily available (by me publishing it for free on pirate sites, no crack required). It will absolutely diminish conversion rate.

I personally donate on patreon just as a fan, I get the games here. But I might be an outlier, not representative. IDK.

Thoughts? Does anyone do this?

 

[lfgals1]

Patreon works off of a report system. All you have to do is piss off one or two audience members (shockingly easy to accomplish) and Patreon will look into what you're selling.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

This means, quite clearly, that I can't post the game on patreon at all. So here come question #1. Does patreon acutally track you off site in any way? I find the notion preposterous. Ofc they don't. But I don't actually know. It's so much plausible deniability that I'd be shocked if they did.

Yes, yes they do. They link to this site specifically a lot of the time as part of suspension reasons. They aren't stupid. It doesn't matter if it's just dev logs, if you're funding a game (that breaks their TOS) using their platform in any way, and you get reported, you get suspended.

 

[Count Morado]

Does patreon acutally track you off site in any way?

Yes. They have sent developers notices to remove links and content that is off their platform which are related to developers' funding pleas.

I need to justify the time and effort and at least hope on making SOME money.

Upwards 2/3 of all adult game developers on Patreon bring in less than $100 per month even after 3 years of being on the site. Still more than half of those on 4 years or more rake in less that $100 per month. This includes developers who but in hundreds of hours (if not 1000-2000 hours) each year. Not to mention those who spend their own $$$ for equipment, assets, fees, artists or writers or coders that they hire.

Not everyone will find a site like this.

There are more than 7 million registered accounts on F95. Plus add in the other sites with similar goals --- you're looking at tens of millions, if not more than 100 million people who will more likely find your game on these kinds of sites than they would initially on Patreon. Patreon has about 600,000-800,000 paid subscribers for adult game developers.

But I might be an outlier, not representative.

You are an outlier - at least 90% of all people who have an account on F95 do not (and most likely have never or will never) subscribe to an adult game developer on Patreon.

 

[amBest]

Yes, yes they do. They link to this site specifically a lot of the time as part of suspension reasons. They aren't stupid. It doesn't matter if it's just dev logs, if you're funding a game (that breaks their TOS) using their platform in any way, and you get reported, you get suspended.

But like ... how is that even possible. All of the incest games on this site are on patreon (more or less) and blindingly obvious incest games.

Is the "fan made" patch such potent kryptonite? More potent than not even having the game on their site. Not even naming the game. The only thing that would even linking me to the game, is posting the patron on the game page here. That would be literally the only way of connecting the dots.

Don't even get me started on the "insert relationship here" thing.

 

[Count Morado]

posting the patron on the game page here

Have you looked at the first post of every game thread on this site?
Example:

If you made a game and created a Patreon account to seek funding, your Patreon page would be linked on F95.

Is the "fan made" patch such potent kryptonite?

If it is truly "fan made" - developers are safe. However, if the developer is promoting the patch in any way and Patreon is made aware, the developer will be informed that they have violated TOS.

 

[amBest]

Have you looked at the first post of every game thread on this site?

That's quite literally exactly what I said. I think you're missing the point.

Again. If what you say is true, I ain't saying it ain't. Then how do 1000 incest games pass the sniff test?
Just by patching it out? Just by having the retarded "set your relations here" input?

That's enough, but having a different name here and not mentioning the game or anything anywhere on patreon, that's weaksauce?

I don't get it.

And man, a lot of MC are ... a japanese word that rhimes with the abreviation of "sort of". How do they get past the TOS on that one?

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

If what you say is true, I ain't saying it ain't.

There are developer exclusive forums here. We all talk about and know about "Marty" an overzealous patreon employee all to eager to hit the "fuck this dev button". If a game gets reported, it's russian roulette based on who actually receives the report. If it's Marty, you're screwed, patch or no patch. Someone else? They'll work with you. Some have had success just by proving the have absolute zero to do with "fan patches". Others have not been so lucky. (Set your relations, as far as I know, has never survived a report.)

 

[Count Morado]

That's quite literally exactly what I said. I think you're missing the point.
And the follow up question is ignored completely so ...

Again. If what you say is true, I ain't saying it ain't. Then how do 1000 incest games pass the sniff test?
Just by patching it out? Just by having the retarded "set your relations here" input?

That's enough, but having a different name here and not mentioning the game or anything anywhere on patreon, that's weaksauce?

I don't get it. It's incoherent.

I did read what you wrote. Did you read what I wrote?

Your patreon WILL be linked on the first page of the game thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. It will happen. And that link is enough.

What 1000 incest games? You are throwing out hypotheticals and 1000 is an exaggeration/hyperbole because there are 8112 adult game developers on Patreon and 1 in 8 aren't incest themed.

Like Insomnimaniac Games mentioned, much of Patreon's policing is done on reporting. They also spot-check. That's after the initial cursory glance when a developer first applies for an account to solicit funding. Also, once a developer starts hitting certain numbers (getting more successful) - Patreon's Trust and Safety team takes a keener interest in a developer's content and they may look deeper.

There have been several successful developer's whose accounts have been pulled just this year - after having years on the platform - like Top 20 adult game developers (such as Uberpie with "Taffy Tales"). There's a reason why DarkCookie pulled all relation content out of Summertime Saga in 2017/2018, and changed the school from high school to a college while removing the sleep sex scene between the MC and Jenny.

"Set your relations here" is less likely to give a developer a pass than a "rename your characters" option.

Again, any official patch is gonna get a developer yanked (unless you have a nice Patreon staff member). If a "fan made" patch has tell-tale signs or there are other ways Patreon can tell it isn't fan made and they decide to investigate - it's gonna get a developer yanked, or at least suspended until the developer brings their content back into compliance.

You also seemed to skip what I mentioned about the average earnings of an adult game developer - particularly after you mentioned $2k. Many adult game developers on Patreon earn less than "minimum wage" and even lose money if they honestly record their expenses.

 

[morphnet]

So here come question #1. Does patreon acutally track you off site in any way? I find the notion preposterous. Ofc they don't. But I don't actually know. It's so much plausible deniability that I'd be shocked if they did.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[amBest]

There are developer exclusive forums here. We all talk about and know about "Marty" an overzealous patreon employee all to eager to hit the "fuck this dev button". If a game gets reported, it's russian roulette based on who actually receives the report. If it's Marty, you're screwed, patch or no patch. Someone else? They'll work with you. Some have had success just by proving the have absolute zero to do with "fan patches". Others have not been so lucky. (Set your relations, as far as I know, has never survived a report.)

Aha. So it's not proactive. They don't NECESSARILY look at everything. They just wait for reports. And then there's a Rroulette. Do you get the cukc employee or not. And a lot of games are small enough to just never get reported.

Because before this made absolutely no sense to me. How could some extraordinarily unsubtle games survive. While others, much less offensive, much less "in your face" games just keep on being nuked off of patreon.

As a user of both patreon and subscribestar (on the patron end of things), I really really really don't like subscribestar. Idk, the UX is horrible, imho. Not that patron is above "barely something". Any idea how the conversion rate is there. I immagine much much lower than patron (conversion rate meaning specifically converting pirated downloads into paying patrons).

 

[amBest]

Many adult game developers on Patreon earn less than "minimum wage" and even lose money if they honestly record their expenses.

Sure, but, eh. While some devs on this site are quite amazing. Jaw droppingly good in a couple of cases. I would say most game here are trash. So ugh. Yeah. I don't know what else to say on that topic.

 

[peterppp]

you can't fund your game through patreon if the game breaks their rules, offsite or elsewhere, that's literally in their guidelines.

the problem you are facing then is that you can't fund your game through patreon without somehow showing your players (your potential patrons) the link to patreon in connection to your game, whether it is on f95 or in the game. so if patreon is coming after you offsite, and they can, they too can find that link and connect it to the game

 

[amBest]

You must be registered to see the links

I did read about the first quarter of /legal before posintg. Probably should have mentioned that. My question was more about what they do, not what they say. EULAs and policies have to be all encompasing. But a law that isn't enforced is a suggestion at best.

However, I do see that they enforce it.

Which means at most I'd make it a passion project for free. Since the stuff I'd put in a game will get me canceled faster than boogie2988 after promoting a crypto scam.

 

[Count Morado]

Since the stuff I'd put in a game will get me canceled

Well, also don't put anything in your game that is illegal in your jurisdiction, either. Free or not. You don't want Johnny Law to come a-knockin'.

 

[peterppp]

Your patreon WILL be linked on the first page of the game thread. No ifs, ands, or buts. It will happen. And that link is enough.

that's done to support the dev not to hurt him. if the dev asks to have it removed from the op, or if the dev owns the thread and does it himself, there is no reason f95 will deny that. f95 has done more than that to help devs fight patreon

the dev could show the patreon link only inside the game and hope patreon doesn't see that

 

[amBest]

Well, also don't put anything in your game that is illegal in your jurisdiction, either. Free or not. You don't want Johnny Law to come a-knockin'.

We're probably thinking of different things. More violent, less ... what you were probably thinking. Also I live in a lawless country so that's also something.

 

[Count Morado]

that's done to support the dev not to hurt him. if the dev asks to have it removed from the op, or if the dev owns the thread and does it himself, there is no reason f95 will deny that. f95 has done more than that to help devs fight patreon

the dev could show the patreon link only inside the game and hope patreon doesn't see that

Interesting. Strange what they may/may not do in terms of helping/hurting developers. Players may also post a link to the developer's patreon in the thread, which would create a vulnerability as well. Players are the worst at keeping secrets and working in their best interests.

lawless country

Doubtful, there are very few of those. But if you're staying away from content that will get you in legal trouble, you're good.

 

[amBest]

Doubtful, there are very few of those. But if you're staying away from content that will get you in legal trouble, you're good.

Man, I don't remember the last week where a teacher got with their underage student and got fired for it. Not to mention legal troubles. Heck, not even a suspension. It's like a national joke at this point. Judges that go "she shouldn't have dressed provocatively" and stuff like that.

Not my area of interest. Just trying to explain how insane life can be in some parts of the world.

Maybe you live in a civilized part of the world and can't fathom such a thing. Believe you me. What the west has, is. Well. Life is very different if you don't live in the west.

 

[morphnet]

I did read about the first quarter of /legal before posintg. Probably should have mentioned that. My question was more about what they do, not what they say. EULAs and policies have to be all encompasing. But a law that isn't enforced is a suggestion at best.

However, I do see that they enforce it.

Which means at most I'd make it a passion project for free. Since the stuff I'd put in a game will get me canceled faster than boogie2988 after promoting a crypto scam.

Also something else to consider is that there are some people out there that are just nutz and would happily report you / your game if they are unhappy with you / your game.

e.g. https://f95zone.to/threads/theres-an-asshole-threating-to-get-my-patreon-account-banned.218054/

So it would be best to stick to the passion project idea and as count said make sure it's legal where you live too.

that's done to support the dev not to hurt him. if the dev asks to have it removed from the op, or if the dev owns the thread and does it himself, there is no reason f95 will deny that. f95 has done more than that to help devs fight patreon

the dev could show the patreon link only inside the game and hope patreon doesn't see that

Not sure if that is true, I read in the wife and mother off-topic that both LP and the dev for mr denvers links were left up after requesting they be removed.

https://f95zone.to/threads/a-wife-and-mother-offtopic-discussion.111628/post-14370277

But I do not know for sure.