Don't take it as a suggestion, just a rant: Every review for 3d Unity/Unreal Engine game with a word "potential" should be deleted.

[EdgeOfShadow]

Considering how far these games go in development, I wish basing review on the game potential and any future additions should call for removal of the review. How many of them got somewhere? Maybe a grand total of 5 western titles?

Even for many Ren'Py/RPGM games for early releases it's sketchy, but 3d games take that to another level.

Again, just a rant, not a suggestion, it's for venting a bit not to criticize the site or suggest actually implementing it.

 

[watdapakisdis]

I've already said it multiple times before but star ratings should only be reserved for completed and abandoned games. People give 5-star ratings even for games that have barely any content just because the renders look good. I swear these guys type these reviews with their dicks.

People need to write better text reviews. If they can't, might as well stick with the game discussion section of the forums.

 

[Meaning Less]

I have no idea what makes you think rendered games take longer than others, if anything after the core mechanics are implemented they are a lot faster to work with than prerendered games.

It just takes longer to learn HOW to make them, and that's why we see less of then, but once you know what you are doing working inside a rendered environment can speed up the development of your game drastically.

 

[EdgeOfShadow]

I have no idea what makes you think rendered games take longer than others, if anything after the core mechanics are implemented they are a lot faster to work with than prerendered games.

It just takes longer to learn HOW to make them, and that's why we see less of then, but once you know what you are doing working inside a rendered environment can speed up the development of your game drastically.

I will have to disagree here because in 3d games between scenes there is a void that will ruin the game if not filled.

For RPGM games the world is relatively easily created and filled with whatever you want as a filler in engine (NPCs, locations, events), while it takes work the dev can focus on whatever content they are adding.
For Ren'Py, depending of the game type, it's also not an issue, there is a ton of avaible stock assets for filler events that supplemented with renders/art will suffice letting the dev to focus on adding content.
Meanwhile with a 3d game the dev has not only more space to fill (as it's in 3 dimensions) but also need to create the gameplay, work on engine, optimize the game, make filler content, create the world, locations, NPCs, etc. which usually hurts the actual content - I've played quite a few 3d games where the porn was just boring sex pose player with a line or two of text to initiate it.

 

[Jaike]

No, haven't reviewed any games in those engines yet but I wouldn't want a review deleted just whenever I write "potential LI".

I've already said it multiple times before but star ratings should only be reserved for completed and abandoned games. People give 5-star ratings even for games that have barely any content just because the renders look good. I swear these guys type these reviews with their dicks.

Disagree with the 1st part, it's pointless most of the time to review a 0.1 or 0.2 that isn't abandoned, but sometimes there is a 1st release that's big enough to review. 2nd part is true. Don't know about the 3rd part, I honestly prefer not to know.

 

[Meaning Less]

I will have to disagree here because in 3d games between scenes there is a void that will ruin the game if not filled.

This has nothing to do with 3D/rendered games but with poor game design choices or releasing a game too early, and there are plenty of prerendered examples with those same exact issues on early versions.

 

[EdgeOfShadow]

This has nothing to do with 3D/rendered games but with poor game design choices or releasing a game too early, and there are plenty of prerendered examples with those same exact issues on early versions.

Read the rest of that comment, while the developer work, knowledge and attitude matters a lot, 2d engines offer much more cost effective solutions which allows for more content.

 

[Meaning Less]

2d engines offer much more cost effective solutions which allows for more content.

How exactly having to prerender/draw every single image allows for more content? You have no idea what you are talking about, it is the opposite of what you assume.

 

[EdgeOfShadow]

How exactly having to prerender/draw every single image allows for more content? You have no idea what you are talking about, it is the opposite of what you assume.

Simple, you work on content instead of working on engine and you don't have to draw/prerender much if at all for filler content. Troubleshooting and figuring out how to do what you want to do in constraints of the engine takes a lot of time.

 

[Sphere42]

Simple, you work on content instead of working on engine and you don't have to draw/prerender much if at all for filler content. Troubleshooting and figuring out how to do what you want to do in constraints of the engine takes a lot of time.

No you have it backwards. With pre-rendering you have to work on the content whether it's what you call "filler" or not. With live rendering you have some kind of system telling the renderer what to do, which basically amounts to the ability to procedurally generate "content". Case in point: try pre-rendering Minecraft, Counter Strike or Skyrim and see how that turns out.

But I agree that reviews should focus on what's actually in the game.

 

[HarveyD]

I mean I just ignore any 5-star reviews anyway. The people writing a lot of them are just so easy to please.

 

[EdgeOfShadow]

No you have it backwards. With pre-rendering you have to work on the content whether it's what you call "filler" or not. With live rendering you have some kind of system telling the renderer what to do, which basically amounts to the ability to procedurally generate "content". Case in point: try pre-rendering Minecraft, Counter Strike or Skyrim and see how that turns out.

But I agree that reviews should focus on what's actually in the game.

I mean, other than Minecraft the effort to render a scene of CS or Skyrim vs recreating it in UE or Unity seems easier, assuming similar quality level.

Btw, I think we are talking about different things, for RPGM or Ren'Py "filler content" you don't have to use any rendered graphics whatsoever as long as the end product fills the need, or you can reuse graphics, you don't have to render a whole scene.
Example: 2d game travel can be skipped, be very fast and painless, an event, one still image or whatever else is required, 3d game travel needs content or is just a waste of time to the player (yes, I do realise that 2d game travel can be made into a pointless waste of time too, that's besides the point).

 

[Sphere42]

Btw, I think we are talking about different things, for RPGM or Ren'Py "filler content" you don't have to use any rendered graphics whatsoever as long as the end product fills the need, or you can reuse graphics, you don't have to render a whole scene.
Example: 2d game travel can be skipped, be very fast and painless, an event, one still image or whatever else is required, 3d game travel needs content or is just a waste of time to the player (yes, I do realise that 2d game travel can be made into a pointless waste of time too, that's besides the point).

You seem to be comparing differently designed mechanics here. An otherwise 3D open world game can still include a fast travel system, or the game can use multiple disjointed smaller instances to begin with. If you're gonna make the player walk through the same hallway-bathroom-hallway-stairs-lounge-kitchen-lounge-entrance sequence in Ren'Py then you can make them do the same via room-switching buttons in 3D, and if you make them walk tile by tile in RPGM you can make them walk along a smooth path in 3D instead.
By the very definition of a "dimension" the base 3D assets require more information than 2D textures of similar resolution, but you can still drop in or mash together premade assets very easily e.g. a "modern kitchen" model to which you add a table model and four copies of a chair model where in 2D you use a kitchen background image, a table sprite and 2-4 copies of a chair sprite.

 

[anon280]

agreed but i extend that notion to any game. anytime i see the word "potential" as a factor of a review it just defeats the purpose of the review which is to rate the current game. saying it has potential is fine as a sentiment but overrating a game on potential is inflation of rating.

Spoiler: on the note of the rating system on f95:

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it usually doesnt make sense rating a first release game unless the content is substantially hefty. subsequent releases become fair game as now it's a measure of quality and content. arguably this isn't always fair as some devs make miniscule updates like SeasonS Calling and We Are Lost