Dutch Angle Overuse

[kytee]

Am I alone in hating the absolute horrid misuse and overuse of the dutch angle in visual novels? I've played a few VN's where 60+% of the renders are dutch angles and my fucking head can't take it anymore. Sure it's like visually interesting for the first 5-10 renders but after that it just gets irritating to look at. My head and my eyes sit upright, not 30-45 degrees to the side. What's wrong with a normal fucking shot for normal humans?

I researched proper usages of the dutch angle and, in summary, it's used to create visual tension to suggest to the audience that not all is as it seems, whether it be that the narrator is unreliable, that the character being framed is mentally unhinged, or that something dramatic is going to happen. Research also emphasizes to use the technique sparingly as "excessive or inappropriate use of this technique can be distracting or disorientating to the audience". I have no qualms against devs who use the dutch angle sparingly for storytelling purposes, but most of these devs use it as an artistic style.

Am I wrong, is there an angle I'm not seeing here (), or are you guys bothered by this shit too?

Spoiler: Examples from Eternum:

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Spoiler: Example in Film:

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[HarveyD]

In the same way that I, and likely 90% of the other users of this forum, have no idea what a "Dutch angle" shot is, I very much doubt many of the devs do either. They're just trying to make stuff look interesting. At least I assume.

After googling it I can't really say any examples of games come to mind, but I likely wouldn't have noticed it at the time. Though I've played a few that felt weird in various ways and this could have been one of them.

Over and/or underuse of literary or cinematic techniques though should hardly come as a surprise seeing as most devs here are complete novices when it comes to writing and cinematography, let alone actually making games.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Am I wrong, is there an angle I'm not seeing here (), or are you guys bothered by this shit too?

Yes you are wrong, and yes you are missing something:

You are expecting devs to know what the dutch angle is and what it mean, when they don't know and don't care.
The games are in the first person point of view, and the MC raise or lower his eyes/head to look at people faces, period.

 

[AdventAnyx]

Had to google what that is.
I don't know what exact examples do you have on hand, but the times that I personally felt the need to turn the camera like that, was when I wanted to show like the full body or something. Because screens are pretty limited in height, but diagonally you can fit more stuff to show with 1 animation loop without camera movement.

 

[Meaning Less]

Here is a Dutch angle for you.

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[Beatrix Kiddo]

Don't know about overuse, but I pretty much hate it. I get dizzy easily and these kind of head turning shots are kryptonite to my inner ears.

 

[Rafster]

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[kytee]

What the fuck are you talking about?

This is what the fuck I am talking about:

Spoiler: Examples from Eternum

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Spoiler: Example of Overuse in Film

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The games are in the first person point of view, and the MC raise or lower his eyes/head to look at people faces, period.

Yeah except these aren't the few times in which the MC is checking someone out that we get a dutch angle, this is nearly every shot. Now unless his head is glued on at 15-45degrees, I expect most of the renders in POV to be upright, not in a dutch angle. Problem is, this shit is happening even in shots that aren't in POV.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Yeah except these aren't the few times in which the MC is checking someone out that we get a dutch angle, this is nearly every shot. Now unless his head is glued on at 15-45degrees, I expect most of the renders in POV to be upright, not in a dutch angle.

We rarely have our head effectively at 0°. Not that I disagree with you, just that dev aren't professional artists, and they are doing what they can, even when it mean exaggerating without really knowing it.

Problem is, this shit is happening even in shots that aren't in POV.

And in the same time not as often as you say it. I follow between 100 and 200 games, while trying I don't know how many each month, and personally I rarely see it.

 

[Rafster]

This is what the fuck I am talking about:

Thanks. Next time, add examples, because not everyone knows what the hell you're complaining. I play mostly text games, and in the few VNs I've played, I didn't see this. I can understand if it becomes annoying if they use it frequently.

Keep going, I have nothing else to add.

 

[Winterfire]

I personally use it when I need to show more of an image... When using an aspect ratio where height is much lower than width, not everything you want to show will fit unless you zoom out a lot, leaving the width way too empty.
A dutch shot is a good compromise.

 

[Deleted member 440241]

I personally use it when I need to show more of an image... When using an aspect ratio where height is much lower than width, not everything you want to show will fit unless you zoom out a lot, leaving the width way too empty.
A dutch shot is a good compromise.

It might show everything you want, but it pretty drastically changes how the audience views a scene. Dutch angles are disorienting and uncomfortable to look at. They're commonly used in horror movies to unsettle audiences or produce a creepy atmosphere.

 

[Rafster]

Dutch angles are disorienting and uncomfortable to look at.

Yeah, I can see that. Actually that's good to know since I plan to use a 3D engine on my next game. I don't like them either

 

[snookums.d.panda]

Clicked into the thread knowing I was going to see Battlefield Earth brought up as an example, as that movie is just about the poster child for the overuse of Dutch angles in film. The thing to keep in mind is that while the described use of how Dutch angles are to be used in film-making isn't wrong, in photography it does seem that tilted angles are accepted as being a more versatile tool for composition in shots. Obviously tools shouldn't be overused, but concerning the games on offer by this site I think a little leeway can be granted, especially for the good bits.

I think it's obvious what I mean by "good bits" here, as for the most part we're here to oogle pictures of some manly women (or pretty boys if that's more your thing), preferably in the nude, and in this context I agree with AdventAnyx on an acceptable use of a tilted angle. Tilting means you can get more of the subject in frame while staying fairly close up, otherwise you'd be leaving parts out of frame or zooming out.

While the argument for overuse can still be stated here, I just did a quick check on vndb to double check some of the VNs I've gone through over the years. Imagine my surprise when I noticed that the far majority of naughty scenes previewed are framed using the screen's diagonal as a point of reference, and I certainly don't remember complaining about it at the time.

Don't get me wrong though, the screenshots given above are definitely off and could use a little work (not familiar with that game, so I really can't say more than that). I'm just saying the context of the scene should be kept in mind for this discussion.

 

[Zarathos27]

First Thor movie is also a good example. I have def noticed overuse of dutch angles and not a fan of it personally. It's used by a lot of devs to create 'pretty' shots, which for this medium works at first, but the devs then lean too hard into it. Flipping camera angles too often is another symptom of dutch angles and to the OP's point, it can be super disorienting.

Which leads to understanding why devs use it, some already mentioned by others in this thread.
- Background and decor assets are intensive and few spend effort on em, so they hide it behind such camera angles.
- Fitting more of the person of interest in frame
- Single dutch angle shot filling the role of multiple shots needed to portray what is going on in the scene, thus it saves render times
- Minimal understanding of motion and action

When I started noticing this, the rest of the VN tends to break down pretty fast. Honestly it's a massive crutch. There's plenty of ways to invoke story and still have gorgeous visuals without overuse of dutch angles.

Spoiler: Personal work and examples:

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