Easiest engine to learn without prior programming knowledge?

wiwit

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Jun 1, 2018
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Hey,
I wanted to make my own game. I can do art, music, sfx and write the story myself, but programming is something that I tried to pick up multiple times and always failed. In case of making a game I tried learning Twine and it was too difficult for me. Is there an easier way than that? It seems like all the engines require at least a little of coding knowledge.

(I know I could find some rev share programmer to help me, but I'm too shy or socially awkward to even attempt that. I much prefer doing things alone.)
 

redknight00

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Ren'py, 98% of it is just the 2 commands for text and image.
 

Lerd0

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..twine maybe...dunno
...too lazy to even try it.....
 

GNVE

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I'd go with Ren'Py. It is easy to learn if your game isn't too complicated. (e.g. text, images and a few choices). You can pick up the basics in a couple of hours or a day at most. Besides Python (the programming language Ren'Py is based on) is one of the easiest to pick up as well.
I'm saying that as someone who started with 0 knowledge of programming myself.
If you don't want choices redknight00 is right and you'd need to master muddle through four commands 1 for displaying text, 1 for displaying images and 2 for declaring characters.

If you have an idea for a more advanced game with lots of choices, a sandbox, minigames etc. I'd just table that for now. Learn the basics and either save up so you can pay a dev or get more comfortable with Ren'Py first. You'll get there :)
 
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MissFortune

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Just to echo what's been said: Ren'py. It's as simple as knowing a few lines of 'code' to get a basic VN done. And to some level, it can grow with you as a developer. Sandboxes, minigames, and similar such things are often better reserved for Unity. That being said, just as a quick example of how simple the code itself is:

First you're goiing to define your character (e.g. giving them a name that pops up on the textbox during dialogue + a color):
Python:
define d = Character("Danny", color="#63ff88")
You can also giving the option of naming the protagonist with a bit more involved code:
Python:
$ mc_name = ""

    $ mc_name = renpy.input("What's your name? {color=#ebdc38}(John is default){/color}")
    $ mc_name = mc_name.strip()
    if mc_name == "":
        $ mc_name = "John"
        
# If "" is left blank, it'll default back to the name given below it, which is "John". From here you also apply a color to the protagonists name. Like so:

define mc = Character("[mc_name]", color="#ebdc38")
Now you can start writing/adding your art/renders/etc.:
Python:
scene render1 with dissolve
mc "Jesus, [d], can you stare any harder at my mom's ass?" #you can also just write his regular name as it without the code here
d "How couldn't I? She's got an absolute dump truck back there."
d "Bet that thing creates earthquakes when she's riding your old man."
mc "My dad's dead, bro. You saw him die. How could you say that?"
scene render2 with dissolve
d "My bad, my bad. Guess I forgot."
mc "It's all right. She was cheating on the poor guy for years anyways. Think he knew but took it like a cuck because he didn't want to be alone."
mc "I think my sister is the other's guys kid, though."
d "Why do you think that?"
mc "Timing doesn't add up."
scene render3 with dissolve
It's pretty simple at the end of the day.
 
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Impious Monk

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I'm a programming idiot, and I figured out Ren'py. Obviously you will have to invest some time in learning it, but trust me, it's really doable.
 
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Gunsothegreat

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Depends a lot on what kind of game you want to make, I would agree with the others that renpy is fine for basic visual novels, but if you are leaning more toward any kind of 2d game ( side-scroller, platformer or point-and-click ) I'd recommend taking a look at godot. if you want to do something 3D, unreal engine is probably the way to go. In my opinion, it's not so much the engine but rather choosing an engine that suits what you are planning to do. Regardless of the engine you choose, you'll still need some basic understanding of programming, unless you are going to create a kinetic novel. Just start with something very simple to begin with, look up a few tutorials and you'll be up and running in no time. Godot, unity, and unreal engine look intimidating but if you're just making a very simple game you don't even need 1% of the engine. For example, your first "game" might be to make a background and one 2d sprite that can walk left or right when you press a button, then you can add other stuff like animating the sprite, adding jump or up and down movement. There are step by step guides on how to create basic games on youtube, and if you get stuck on some problem all these engines have online communities where you can try to get help.

So the first thing you should ask yourself is what kind of game do I want to make, then choose the right engine.
A popular choice for non-programmers is RPG maker, and as much as I dislike RPG-maker there are plenty of people who have started out there.
 
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Anghostia

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As mentioned above, the choice of engine depends on the type of game you want to create. You can't make a GTA 6 in Ren'Py.

That being said, I did some tests with Ren'Py to see how it works and even though it's easy, what I wanted to do required a bit more (for customization purposes). From there, I tried Unity for a few months, and honestly, I didn't understand anything. I was just watching videos and copying code, and you might say, 'well, as long as it works' but when it comes time to fix bugs, oh boy!

Finally, I tried (and recommend) Godot. There might not be as much documentation as with the others, but the programming language is easy and intuitive. I haven't seen much documentation, so even though things work, there's a bit of chaos behind the scenes xD, but... it works!

Whichever one you choose, I think it's important that you understand the logic of things; it's definitely a game-changer in any engine.

"I want that when A happens -> B occurs, but if C is active, then D happens."
 

peterppp

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i think a few people only read the title. he said twine was too difficult for him. and you suggest godot? and twine lol

to witwit: twine is really easy as engines go. renpy can be easy too but i don't think you will find renpy easier to start with compared to twine. as with any engine, it takes some effort to learn even the basics.

you have to get over that initial hurdle of getting started. whatever engine you try, look for a good tutorial to get you started with the basics
 

Gunsothegreat

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If the game they want to make isn't a basic "choose your own story" twine would seem complicated because they wouldn't know that twine can't really do what they want to do. There is also the question of how good the tutorials they used were, a bad tutorial can make anything sound complicated. Regardless of what kind of game they want to make there is also the question of limitations. I would personally recommend learning to use an engine with less limitations than renpy or twine because as soon as you try to do something beyond the basic stuff they are made for, things can get very complicated very fast. And if you don't realize this until you've already made half your game you will have to start over in another engine or accept the limitations.

What kind of game they want to make would seriously affect what engine should be used, try making a side-scrolling beat-em-up in twine and you are going to fail because it's not made for that.

Now if we assume they just want to make another visual novel, then renpy or twine would probably be the easiest. But what if they don't want to make a visual novel?

We are just trying to be helpful and pointing out options for them to look into.
 

anne O'nymous

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renpy can be easy too but i don't think you will find renpy easier to start with compared to twine. as with any engine, it takes some effort to learn even the basics.
I disagree here, Ren'Py should be easier than Twine due to both its coding structure and its error handling.
Fully understanding the error is something else, but as long as you limit to Ren'Py languages, what he will do at first, there's just no way to have an error, that isn't purely logical, that pass unnoticed. And for someone who have no previous experience it's really a big plus.
It's also probably less intimidating, because, hmm, "fully autonomous" ; this by opposition to Twine that rely on an external software, the browser.



I would personally recommend learning to use an engine with less limitations than renpy or twine because as soon as you try to do something beyond the basic stuff they are made for, things can get very complicated very fast.
I would personally recommend learning what Ren'Py and Twine can effectively do before writing such recommendation.

A beat'em'up would be effectively difficult, yet not impossible, but a horizontal or vertical shoot'em'up is perfectly possible with both. A bit complicated with Twine, since you need to address the DOM to alter the style of the elements, what is effectively advanced coding for the engine. But really easy with Ren'Py, especially if you limits to linear movements ; yet for curved ones you just need to browse Stack Overflow for the correct algorithm.

What doesn't mean that they are the most suitable engines for such games, but they can perfectly do it, and do it good enough.
 

osanaiko

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I think Godot is a great project and I'm looking forward to see it used for more and more cases to move game dev away from proprietary vendors (witness the recent unity debacle).

However Godot is absolutely not yet at a place where a beginner could put together a KN or VN with anything close to the ease of Renpy.

Twine also has it's place in the scheme of things but you very quickly hit a hard, tall wall of javascript and CSS in order to do anything custom or complicated.
 
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Gunsothegreat

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I would personally recommend learning what Ren'Py and Twine can effectively do before writing such recommendation.
The question is, what is the easiest. Godot has a lot of built in stuff for 2d games that renpy and twine do not, and I'm pretty sure that most of that stuff is easier in godot. I have used them all by the way. Just because you can do something with an engine doesn't mean it's the best choice. You need a lot more knowledge and experience with renpy/python or twine/javascript to get the same results as in godot, this is almost always the case when you go outside the scope of what the software was made for.

Now my question for you, have you tried godot? if somebody knows of an easier engine that does 2d better then please let me know.

A beat'em'up would be effectively difficult, yet not impossible, but a horizontal or vertical shoot'em'up is perfectly possible with both.
You are correct, and this is not the case with godot and considering we are recommending stuff to a beginner I would still recommend godot for anyone wanting to make a 2d game, it's a lot faster and easier to learn the basics you need for that in godot than mastering renpy/python or twine/javascript to the extend you would need for anything more than the absolute basics.
Seriously, basic stuff like horizontal or vertical shoot'em'up is barely more than drag and drop in godot.
Now I'm not saying renpy or twine are bad, they are both good at what they do from what I've seen, but if you go beyond that scope you're not doing yourself any favors using those.
I'm just suggesting using the proper tool for the task, nothing more nothing less. There could be other 2d engines out there I know nothing about that are better than godot for this task, this is simply my opinion based on my experience of using these engines.


however....
However Godot is absolutely not yet at a place where a beginner could put together a KN or VN with anything close to the ease of Renpy.
This is true, if you are making a KN or VN you would have to do some basic programming in godot, so if that's the kind of game you are making then you'll have an easier time to start in renpy, just keep in mind the limitations of the engine you use.
 
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anne O'nymous

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The question is, what is the easiest. Godot has a lot of built in stuff for 2d games that renpy and twine do not, and I'm pretty sure that most of that stuff is easier in godot.
And I explicitly addressed your claim regarding Twine and Ren'Py limitations, voluntarily not talking about the facility of use, that is purely relative.


I have used them all by the way. Just because you can do something with an engine doesn't mean it's the best choice.
Could it be the reason why I ended my post by saying that all this doesn't mean that they are the most suitable engine for such games ?


Now my question for you, have you tried godot? if somebody knows of an easier engine that does 2d better then please let me know.
I tried Godot, and for someone without software development knowledge, it's far more confusing than Ren'Py.
You're on a thread made by someone who find Twine hard to use. I'm far to be an "on topic" freak, but you're really going far from what the title is asking, expecting someone without an once of previous knowledge to find it easy to link abstract events to abstract elements through a professional abstract interface. Totally forgetting that "programming" isn't just a question of writing code lines, but also, among other needs, ordering a project, and being able to link in your mind its different components in order to have a global vision.
It happen that Ren'Py intuitiveness, coupled to its flexibility, is perfect for this. It suffice to see, by example, the number of games using a shown screen followed by an endless loop, in place of a called screen that would naturally wait for the player, to understand how far Ren'Py simplicity of use goes. You can have a code that is technically broken, yet perfectly functional, something impossible with Godot. And it's precisely what people "without prior programming knowledge" are searching ; a game engine that permit them to make their game works, even if it's an assembly of tin cans.


Seriously, basic stuff like horizontal or vertical shoot'em'up is barely more than drag and drop in godot.
And linking abstract events to abstract elements, something that will not be intuitive for someone without prior knowledge. This while, as the code I linked show, with Ren'Py it's nothing more that a bunch of for loop and a bunch of if structures ; as I said, it would need more with Twine.
Technically, one isn't more simple, or more complicated, than the other. But logically, doing it with Ren'Py would be easier, because way more intuitive for a pure novice. What is needed isn't knowledge, but ideas.
Ideas that rarely appear, because not only people using the engine limit themselves, but people talking about it promote none existing limits. It was always possible to have a free roaming game mechanism in Ren'Py, and it have always been extremely easy to do it. Yet it only effectively appeared in adult games around 2019, when the first creators to think out of the box started to do it, showing others that it's possible.

Now, yes, once you've done your first project with Ren'Py, you would probably find it easier to do it with Godot. Exactly like people find that Unity offer them more freedom than Ren'Py... once they already learned the basis of development, and therefore know what to expect and what they need to do.
But it's that "once you" that matter here, because it's the missing part.


Now I'm not saying renpy or twine are bad, they are both good at what they do from what I've seen, but if you go beyond that scope you're not doing yourself any favors using those.
A scope that, for Ren'Py, isn't the one you believe, nor the one promoted.
Despite its origin, Ren'Py isn't a Visual Novel engine, but a "flat game" engine ; not in a 2D Vs 3D way, but by the lack of relief of its result. You can do any 80's arcade game with it, reaching the same level of quality than those games, and you can do it easily.
It would look out dated, because games have evolved a lot since then, hence the "flat" part. But the instant you accept that you'll do something for another age, it's really easy to do it.
 

Gunsothegreat

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Despite its origin, Ren'Py isn't a Visual Novel engine, but a "flat game" engine ; not in a 2D Vs 3D way, but by the lack of relief of its result.
The first sentence on the renpy homepage is.....
"Ren'Py is a visual novel engine "

My recommendation stands....choose an engine that fits the game you want to make and learn to use it, it's still going to be easier than using an engine that doesn't fit.

You can do any 80's arcade game with it, reaching the same level of quality than those games,
Why would you want to use an engine that would easily allow you to make games that look like they were made 40 years ago, when you can easily make games with much better quality in multiple engines?

I wish someone had recommended a better programming language to me when I started programming, then I wouldn't have wasted years learning a useless programming language that I haven't used since.

Now you can disagree with me on this, I don't really care.
Making a game is hard enough without having to fight the game engine you use at every turn.
 

Tompte

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In case of making a game I tried learning Twine and it was too difficult for me. Is there an easier way than that? It seems like all the engines require at least a little of coding knowledge.
Game engines will only provide the fundamental tools required to make a game but they're not going to make the game for you. Unless the engine is specifically targeted for non-programmers (like Scratch), you're going to be expected to know (or learn) a little bit of coding.

My recommendation is to keep trying. If you felt Twine was too hard, either keep bashing your head against it or try something else. Remember that everyone starts out by knowing nothing, and what you really need is just time and practice. Eventually, things that used to seem complicated will start to make sense and you'll go "Oh, now I get it!" If you reach that point, you should have no problem putting something together.
 
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wiwit

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Thanks for answers (didn't expect more than 1 reply honestly), I will probably try renpy and maaaybe rpg maker just to see how it is
 
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