Excuse my asking but where is AVN Industry Headed?
- Thread starter WarpedGaming
- Start date
- Oct 25, 2022
- 42
- 77
Thank you for starting this thread WarpedGaming as I am in a similar boat, wrong side of 50, looking to retire early in a couple of years and having worked in IT all my life and also recently discovered VN's am researching this vast topic.
For me persoanlly, the money isn't the draw but if I get a little extra great, my challenge at the moment is which content creation tools to use as there seems to be sooo many and the more I research the more options I found to the point where I find myself totally bogged down with choices.
Although I have an IT background I don't have any of the skills needed for content creation but am willing to learn these myself but that means (I think) at the minimum, writing, coding, art, modelling, animation and music.
I guess my question then is if there are reccomended tools from the community or is it just a case of going with what one feels most confortable with?
Some of the ones I've seen are as follows -
1. Writing - I'm using Google docs to plan my stories, have heard about storyboard software to help with this though and also something called Scrivener which is used by writers and lets you set up branching story lines but isn't free.
2. Coding - I've settled on Ren'Py as an engine which seems to be quite easy to get into and there are a lot of community resources around to help with this that I've seen. I'm not sure I want to learn Python but hopefully copying and pasting code will be enough. ChatGPT might be able to help with vreating code too now.
3. Art - This is the biggest hurdle for me, never done it and don't know if I'll be able to learn. I've started looking at AI art like Stability Diffusion for creating backgrounds but that's a whole other can of worms!
4. Modelling - I think the most common combination for this is Blender (which I'm currently learning) and Daz 3D Studio. These are great being free but then I see references to things like Reallusion Character Creater which comes with a hefty price tag and wonder if it's worth it?
5. Animation - I've not looked into this in detail yet, I know it can be done in I think both Blender and Daz 3D Studio but again there are other applications around.
6. Music - Not looked at all at this but have seen some VN's don't have any so maybe it's not important.
I guess the answers to my questions are personal preference in the end but if anyone has any thoughts or can point me to a thread that lists the common tools people use it would be greatly appreciated.
For me persoanlly, the money isn't the draw but if I get a little extra great, my challenge at the moment is which content creation tools to use as there seems to be sooo many and the more I research the more options I found to the point where I find myself totally bogged down with choices.
Although I have an IT background I don't have any of the skills needed for content creation but am willing to learn these myself but that means (I think) at the minimum, writing, coding, art, modelling, animation and music.
I guess my question then is if there are reccomended tools from the community or is it just a case of going with what one feels most confortable with?
Some of the ones I've seen are as follows -
1. Writing - I'm using Google docs to plan my stories, have heard about storyboard software to help with this though and also something called Scrivener which is used by writers and lets you set up branching story lines but isn't free.
2. Coding - I've settled on Ren'Py as an engine which seems to be quite easy to get into and there are a lot of community resources around to help with this that I've seen. I'm not sure I want to learn Python but hopefully copying and pasting code will be enough. ChatGPT might be able to help with vreating code too now.
3. Art - This is the biggest hurdle for me, never done it and don't know if I'll be able to learn. I've started looking at AI art like Stability Diffusion for creating backgrounds but that's a whole other can of worms!
4. Modelling - I think the most common combination for this is Blender (which I'm currently learning) and Daz 3D Studio. These are great being free but then I see references to things like Reallusion Character Creater which comes with a hefty price tag and wonder if it's worth it?
5. Animation - I've not looked into this in detail yet, I know it can be done in I think both Blender and Daz 3D Studio but again there are other applications around.
6. Music - Not looked at all at this but have seen some VN's don't have any so maybe it's not important.
I guess the answers to my questions are personal preference in the end but if anyone has any thoughts or can point me to a thread that lists the common tools people use it would be greatly appreciated.
- Apr 13, 2021
- 1,765
- 1,433
I am just speak as myself but i think there is too much emphasis on animations in VN. They look as an attempt to make a slideshow into a movie.
Most of them are bad and they don't enhance the story but satisfy the hormon driven crowd. Plus the bloat the game itself.
Why not go full 3D instead? At least then it would make sense.
Music is important. When doing a story, visuals are only one part but music makes it whole. But again, some just want to make a slideshow where only the image itself carries the story. Though music will set the mood of the story. Haven't seen a movie without music in a long time but of course there are some.
You already have so many pluses. I have no background in coding. All i did in my younger years was some basic and Arexx. That's it.
- Apr 13, 2021
- 1,765
- 1,433
- Sep 4, 2022
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I can only answer your questions with my recommendations and what I use. I have been in IT myself for TOO LONG and also 3D too long. But for writing my scripts I started out using OpenOffice (Which is FREE) and used the 'sidebar' for notes and highlights.
Now I use StudioBinder for all my scriptwriting. It is paid, but you do get one free script so if you're doing just one novel then you're set.
Same here, even though I know C/C++, Python (which does help when I want to customise my Ren'Py for my needs), and numerous other languages. But I find Ren'Py very easy and I can get done what I want pretty quickly.
You just might have to devote some time into practicing your art using Photoshop, Affinity (I have both so I can help out if you need it) but just practice. That's all I did.
Just stick with Blender and Daz, this is what I do with my own novels. I do have the whole Rallusion suite but I only use that for client work as I'm also a freelancer. So there are a couple game companies I work for sometimes that require I use it. But don't even worry about that and AVN developers don't really need Reallusion.
The animation you can also do in Blender, just like with Art it just takes a little practice. You'll have to understand rigging (I use a Blender addon called "Auto-Rig Pro" for most all my rigging. But again, animating is going to take a lot of time to get good at and in an AVN it's not all that important. I mean yea it can make you're novel that much better, but if done badly it can make it all that much worse too.
I do my own music too, but I also purchase music sometimes too. So it's a little mix. I use my own music mostly to just promote it and get it out there. The site I use for my music is MotionArray.
Well I believe I covered all your questions and hope that helps out a little. Sorry I didn't catch your post early but I'm busy. As ALL AVN devs should be LOL!
Anyway, take care and good luck.
- May 24, 2020
- 196
- 204
Writing, coding, and art are your primaries and everything else is a subset of that. Pick one you don't need to be good, just have fundamentals down, then learn the next one.
Writing = read a lot, at least enough to find a genre you really enjoy and not just one you think you enjoy, be polite but avoid writing advice from people who claim to be writers. For all the people who claim they write online its really rare to find people that actually do, learn this really fast. If you hear someone saying they are pantser writers and whatever their creative philosophy stuff is its bs, its like going to the gym on a diet of Mcdonalds, you are fighting an uphill battle if you drink that koolaid. All fundamentals in any skill are systematic and writing and art are no exception, a lot of people will pretend its intuitive or some mystical arcane shit when its not. Once you have fundamentals down then you can break structure, deviate into what you think is enjoyable even if it doesn't follow fundamentals. If you've read enough you probably have an idea for both a story and style you want more of, that's what you will write.
Art = Even with AI you still need to know how to do stuff. If you're using it, try to avoid generating anything you cant paint in by hand, learn how to photobash and composite. The most important thing is learn to draw, even a little bit. Being forced to break down what you are trying to recreate is the most valuable artistic skill and it comes from your pencil paper work. It is the basis for every other artistic skill, painting, sculpting, animating, everything comes back to your ability to visualize then break that stuff down into pieces that you refine, something you only gain from the time doing basics.
Coding = Its logical, its like math without the hard stuff. Its really systematic and easier for me to do than the other two which is why I'm a bit more lax with it but it can always get more complicated and I advise against doing that. Learning how to code raw in your language of choice with just a compiler in those old school courses I think is the best way but they never teach it practically which is the next step, after that overcoming and learning how to use your language of choice in practice is your next step. I personally needed guidance on that, you might want to do some youtube tutorials and follow along as someone else builds stuff using the code you just learned. Digging through documentation is a skill that is learned and you're probably used to it from your work but I have to reference cheat sheets open constantly as I'm working, when you learn they don't teach you that so try to start utilizing documentation early. About ChatGPT, its a really amazing tool, it will write working code, it will make your code run, but it wont keep you from really fucking yourself, and you need to know how to code just to ask it questions about your code. The more you learn, the less I think you'll blindly trust it, but you'll be able to guide it better
TBH its kind of the same skill all around. With art you have a vision, you build it from basic shapes and you refine it with detail. Those same skills apply with coding, knowing what you want a system to do and breaking that down into classes and functions. Writing is knowing what you want from your story and breaking it down into a bunch of technical outlines before writing it paragraph by paragraph. Its just an unwieldy amount of stuff to do, pick one and specialize in it, put that at the forefront of what your game is, and only lightly touch on the other two.
Also scrivener is kind of ass, I've used it but most real writers I met just use google docs because its easier to share your work with other people
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- Oct 25, 2022
- 42
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Thanks very much for the advice WarpedGaming & OsamiWorks, very much appreciated and I will endevour to take on board what you've said.