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Family Faring and are VN Games art?

VN Games are just games or works of art?


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    137

Shadow2007

Member
Aug 9, 2020
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Looks mid.
Also looks like DAZ. Being an artist is hard, but I wouldn't call posing pre-made models and render them as making art, more like repurposing art made by other people.
And all that "Think about the art that goes in them as well as the story line and plots in them, they are a work of art..." thing. You can call any game art then, not just VNs. Almost every game consists of different works of art. 3D art, 2D art, music, writing e.t.c
But what VNs defiantly aren't - games. At least most of them, that have no gameplay whatsoever, it's just more of like a book with pictures in it, and interactivity only trough choices you can make that affect the story, but real books did that too, it's called "Choose Your Own Adventure Books" or something. Some of VNs have minigames i guess, but it doesn't really matter, you can put a sudoku or crossword in a book, it still will be a book, not a game.
Good point and yes I remember "Choose Your Own Adventure Books", although not many VN's are like "Choose Your Own Adventure Books". I'd say about 90% of them have 2-3 endings and are very linear, unlike "Choose Your Own Adventure Books" that have very different stories based on your choice and many possible endings. I remember one had 20 odd endings, wish I kept the book.... So hard to find them now, collectors pieces.

So maybe instead of VN game it should be "Choose Your Own Adventure VN"?
 
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Shadow2007

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Aug 9, 2020
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Believe it or not a founded in the early 2000s trademarked the term, even though I remember CYOA books from the 80s or 90s. Worst part is even Chrysler and Netflix settled out of court when slapped with lawsuits.

It's one of those weird situations where money didn't win the day, but at the same time the wrong side won (IMO obviously, not a lawyer).
LOL wow thanks for that fact!
 

Shadow2007

Member
Aug 9, 2020
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Hmm, interesting. and absolutely believable knowing how weird all this copyright/trademark crap is. Though i never understood the point of these trademark laws, from my point of view they do more harm then good. You can't name "something" as what it is, because some dude claimed this word or combination of words or even a concept as his own only. Like the time creator of minecraft and bethesda had some legal argument over the name of a game "Scrolls" the game never seen the light of day, but skyrim had an easter egg in form of "notched pickaxe". Or Ubisoft who patented the game mechanic of enemies that remember your previous encounter or some stuff. The feature from Shadow of Mordor game, the so called "Nemesis system". Such a corpo bullshit.
Trademarks are an international way for someone or company to protect their intellectual property from other using it to make money form it... So a word or logo that is trade marked then you own the right (all rights) to use it and no one else. Walkman is a trade mark of Sony and I remember the fuss when other companies sold a Walkman and Sony sued them as they had trademarked the wording.

Society is just messed up when money and greed is involved....
 
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Shadow2007

Member
Aug 9, 2020
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AFAICT the Scrolls matter more or less amicably and Mojang was allowed to use the name. If the game didn't get released it was for another reason. Don't want to take the thread any further off-topic so I'm not gonna comment on the rest. ;)
You should start you own page with all the interesting facts you seem to have and please get off topic, learning new things is never a bad thing in my books.
Thanks again for the interesting post!
 

Shadow2007

Member
Aug 9, 2020
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I found it and I played it when it was in its Episode 4. Here are my impressions:

1- I liked it gave options for the player, you are not forced into a scene you don't want the MC to take part.
2- I found the girls attractive, both the older ones and the younger ones.
3- Animations could be better, some parts of the characters remain static and they should be moving.
4- Overall better than most games in their early stages. Keep up the good work!
Pass it on the dev I've been trying to get them to keep the dev. I have been waiting on a new version for a while and well... still at V5 which is still at $10
 

EnterYourNameHere

Engaged Member
Mar 16, 2022
2,582
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The dev drastically change the game soon and makes the loli more a "adult" than just a child. Maybe we have a chance that the upcoming episode 7 will be approved here.
 

klmr585

Newbie
Jul 23, 2020
58
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rework is done for ep1 wich is out now. it should now no longer be banned here, or am i wrong? :unsure:
 

ClockworkGnome

Active Member
Sep 18, 2021
856
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Late to the party, but I definitely want to touch on this:

Believe it or not a founded in the early 2000s trademarked the term, even though I remember CYOA books from the 80s or 90s. Worst part is even Chrysler and Netflix settled out of court when slapped with lawsuits.

It's one of those weird situations where money didn't win the day, but at the same time the wrong side won (IMO obviously, not a lawyer).
It's slightly more complicated than that.

The original Choose Your Own Adventure series was effectively created by Edward Packard (who wrote a lot of the early books). He published a few under their own brand "Adventures of You". But the head of his publishing company was the one who eventually pushed to rebrand those books (and books by other authors) as Choose Your Own Adventure.

That publishing company was owned by R. A. Montgomery - who also went on to write a lot of the early Choose Your Own Adventure books. His wife also wrote a few of them.

"Choose Your Own Adventure" was always a brand - and thus legally protected. It's why when the genre boomed in the 80s, and dozens of other publishers started releasing copycat books, they all had to use different names. Twistaplot, Find Your Fate, Which Way?, . The brand name was a protected trademark. In fact, it was a registered trademark (using the ® mark instead of ).

By 2000 or so the original trademark had almost certainly lapsed. And R. A. Montgomery (and his wife) are the ones who formed Chooseco solely and specifically to acquire and maintain the trademark going forward. Their business plan was to basically republish the original CYOA books they themselves had written (which they still owned the rights to), and to expand the brand to other media (including stuff like board games, DVD games, and phone apps). Eventually, they started approaching other writers from the original series to reprint their work as well, and then started approaching entirely new writers to write new books for the Choose Your Own Adventure brand.

Arguably, if there was a single person on the entire planet who should have the right to use the brand, R. A. Montgomery's was absolutely that person. About the only other person who even remotely has as strong a claim was Edward Packard (who later started his own company, called U-Ventures, to republish his own books). For all intents and purposes, Chooseco has a fairly strong claim to corporate continuity all the way back to the first CYOA book ever written. They're about as official a continuation as you can get. They basically ARE Choose Your Own Adventure. It's not a case like "Atari", where some random assholes just bought the name of the original company and exploit the former brand name they have pretty much zero creative claim to.

And like it or not, both legally and morally, Chooseco was pretty much 100% in the right to sue Chrysler and Netflix for using the term. Because while ad execs in those companies may have been (wrongly) acting under the assumption that "Choose Your Own Adventure" was a generic term, it isn't and hasn't ever been, even if most people who grew up in the 80s (or later) mistakenly assume it is. And in fact, Chooseco was pretty much obligated to sue over rights to prevent it from becoming a generic trademark (in the same way that "aspirin" was originally the trademarked brand name for "acetylsalicylic acid", but now pretty much anyone can use it). If they didn't sue, they could potentially lose the trademark entirely.

All of the 80s kids who grew up reading those books eventually just started referring to the whole genre as "Choose Your Own Adventure", in the exact same way that people refer to all "adhesive bandages" as Band-Aids, all cotton swabs as "Q-Tips", and all tissues as "Kleenex". But the companies that own those brands still have legal rights, and tend to be EXTREMELY litigious over them, to protect them from becoming generic trademarks (like aspirin, cellophane, linoleum, etc.). Which is why if you go to Wal-Mart to buy the cheap store-brand knock-offs you'll be buying "Acetaminophen/Pain Reliever" instead of Tylenol, but why they can call "aspirin" Aspirin, in spite of the fact that it was originally a brand name that only applied to Bayer's brand. And why Wal-Mart would be in trouble if they branded their product as "Tylenol" and Johnson & Johnson found out about it.

Basically, people online can call every "make your own story choices" book a CYOA if they want, but the moment you try to market a PRODUCT using that term, you're breaking the law and your ass has a target on it.


...and to bring it back to the original subject, Chooseco actually put out something that most people here probably WOULD describe as a Visual Novel:

Also, as an aside, "Kinetic Novel" is itself another term that is technically a trademarked brand term that isn't universal, even if people in places like here use it that way.
 

DeMarcus16

Member
Apr 12, 2017
247
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265
Late to the party, but I definitely want to touch on this:
Interesting read. (My kid sister read those CYOA books.) It reminded me of Davenport. Davenport was a common term for a sofa/couch when I was a kid. Or Oreo as a generic term for cookie!