HTML Abandoned Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[IjjKpoe]

Your suggestion is somewhat problematic. He'd have to open an account on some new platform, such as

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. Or is him being able to receive tips for his "past work" a no-no?

I think Ko-fi would be a good model for him to go towards. He can still collect donations for the work he's done. And he'd avoid all the Karens that are "employing"/"commissioning" him on Patreon and complaining here.

Edit: Following poster gets it 100%.

The problem is that in order to collect donations for his work... he must work.

And that's he main point of people calling him (correctly) scammer. Patreon it's a donation-work site, people pay Crush to work and develop a product he isn't developing.

This game started before Covid-19, Biden presidency, , Israel becoming the new nazi regime, 11 wars, Macron being bullyied by his Wife, while Epstein commited suicide by murder, Palantir turning USA into V of Vendetta book lore, Trump nuking fishermen and saying they are the re-incarnation of Escobar...... Jesus christ we will fucking colonize Pluto and he will still make excuses to not make his fucking game!

Dosn't matter what payment platform uses, HE WILL SCAM AGAIN! In orden to have our trust again he must and have to turn FA into some king of BDG3 game level and we would still be suspicious. It's been more than 2 years w/o any update and still being paid on Patreon.

I don't want to go back to this argument again, he is a Scammer.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

The argument for "oh no, he shouldn't be using patreon" is completely stupid. Patreon allows you to mark some posts as paid, effectively switching from "pay monthly and get fuck all" to "pay each time I deliver something". Even if he didn't stop subscriptions (which would be the honest thing to do), he could just switch to pay per delivery. But of course that would mean either:

- Actually working and delivering something worth paying for on time
- Being more transparent (ha-ha) by putting out unfinished versions each time he wants to get paid, which ties into the psychology aspect of "The user is aware that they have to pay for this" every time rather than "I subscribed a while ago and forgot about it"

 

[Majus]

The problem is that in order to collect donations for his work... he must work.

And that's he main point of people calling him (correctly) scammer. Patreon it's a donation-work site, people pay Crush to work and develop a product he isn't developing.

This game started before Covid-19, Biden presidency, , Israel becoming the new nazi regime, 11 wars, Macron being bullyied by his Wife, while Epstein commited suicide by murder, Palantir turning USA into V of Vendetta book lore, Trump nuking fishermen and saying they are the re-incarnation of Escobar...... Jesus christ we will fucking colonize Pluto and he will still make excuses to not make his fucking game!

Dosn't matter what payment platform uses, HE WILL SCAM AGAIN! In orden to have our trust again he must and have to turn FA into some king of BDG3 game level and we would still be suspicious. It's been more than 2 years w/o any update and still being paid on Patreon.

I don't want to go back to this argument again, he is a Scammer.

Well, I sincerely disagree. People can and did collect money for work they have produced in the past. It's nothing new. It's "pay what you want" model. Content is free, but you can still pay for it, if you feel like it.

People not being able to differentiate a purchase from lease, from donation, from commision... doesn't make the developer a scammer. Well, I guess it does in their eyes, but I'd argue that community's interpretation is flawed here.

People cannot "pay Crush to work". He's (clearly) not taking any commission work. All you can do is give this depressed dude some pocket change or not.

 

[Spawk]

People cannot "pay Crush to work". He's (clearly) not taking any commission work. All you can do is give this depressed guy pocket change or not.

That's the problem: you can't. He's literally saying either you keep paying me after two years without updates, or I'm quitting the game. And people don't want the money they've been "giving" to someone for two years to go to waste. It's probably even worse than a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes tend to collapse at a certain point, and the scammers either disappear with the money or get caught, but here the scammer says if you stop bringing in money, I'll bring down the Ponzi scheme. So the cult decides, "Just a couple more months? Well, we'll wait, of course. It's so good that there's a new post."

 

[April_223]

I was wondering how long it would take for him to break. He is currently crashing out and just banned a guy for criticizing his release pace.

View attachment 1759270333473.webp

 

[IjjKpoe]

Well, I sincerely disagree. People can and did collect money for work they have produced in the past. It's nothing new. It's "pay what you want" model. Content is free, but you can still pay for it, if you feel like it.

People not being able to differentiate a purchase from lease, from donation, from commision... doesn't make the developer a scammer. Well, I guess it does in their eyes, but I'd argue that community's interpretation is flawed here.

People cannot "pay Crush to work". He's (clearly) not taking any commission work. All you can do is give this depressed dude some pocket change or not.

What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?

Do you know a game named Puffpals Island Skies? That game raised 2.5 milions over a kickstarter for a game that was literally a Control C + Control V of Animal Crossing. Wouldn't you say that it's a damn scam?

Now let's get back to FA; Crush is a guy being PAID to do a job, a job he isnt doing. Crush fuking asked for MONEY to develop a game, people tursted him and he literally said "fck u all i am just on a 28 months hiatus because my mother didnt bake my favorite biscuit".

It surprises me that people still makes excuses for Crush.

 

[Allafterne]

What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?

Do you know a game named Puffpals Island Skies? That game raised 2.5 milions over a kickstarter for a game that was literally a Control C + Control V of Animal Crossing. Wouldn't you say that it's a damn scam?

Now let's get back to FA; Crush is a guy being PAID to do a job, a job he isnt doing. Crush fuking asked for MONEY to develop a game, people tursted him and he literally said "fck u all i am just on a 28 months hiatus because my mother didnt bake my favorite biscuit".

It surprises me that people still makes excuses for Crush.

Even if one entertains his "Crush solicits donations for creative process" statement for a second, it requires (by it's definition) a continuation of creative process, failed or otherwise. His original release window's anniversary (which he set after a year without any release btw) is few months away & he is actively cannibalizing said release into parts because its still not hot™ enough. Meanwhile only evidence there is active development going on is "trust me bro" statement coming from single cultist discord member & that half-baked barely working single story beat beta he released to his patrons ages ago...

 

[Majus]

What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?

Do you know a game named Puffpals Island Skies? That game raised 2.5 milions over a kickstarter for a game that was literally a Control C + Control V of Animal Crossing. Wouldn't you say that it's a damn scam?

Now let's get back to FA; Crush is a guy being PAID to do a job, a job he isnt doing. Crush fuking asked for MONEY to develop a game, people tursted him and he literally said "fck u all i am just on a 28 months hiatus because my mother didnt bake my favorite biscuit".

It surprises me that people still makes excuses for Crush.

I'm not making excuses for developer. He clearly isn't doing the best job with managing his project. I'm arguing for what buying, paying and donating means.

My point is that you did not purchase anything. You did not pre-order anything. You downloaded a free game and made a voluntary and optional donation for it. Crush did not ask for money, the game is provided free of charge.

There are many flavours of "money exchanging hands", but in this case, donations and crowdfunding probably are most applicable. Since this game is free and this develoepr isn't "selling" anything tangible (like extra tiers or DLC), my argument is that this is a donation-based crowdfunding model. If not, then probably a pure donation collection model.
So you can critique the developer for not doing good community manegement and being wish-washy, but fundamentally/technically I doubt that there can even be a scam here, based on the fact, that the content is free. Thoughts?

Edit: "What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?" Yeah, I guess. A scam could be identity theft and so on... But we're thiking of "spend money" and "be entitled to stuff" here. I guess that is my point.

 

[Vibesy]

I'm not making excuses for developer. He clearly isn't doing the best job with managing his project. I'm arguing for what buying, paying and donating means.

My point is that you did not purchase anything. You did not pre-order anything. You downloaded a free game and made a voluntary and optional donation for it. Crush did not ask for money, the game is provided free of charge.

There are many flavours of "money exchanging hands", but in this case, donations and crowdfunding probably are most applicable. Since this game is free and this develoepr isn't "selling" anything tangible (like extra tiers or DLC), my argument is that this is a donation-based crowdfunding model. If not, then probably a pure donation collection model.
So you can critique the developer for not doing good community manegement and being wish-washy, but fundamentally/technically I doubt that there can even be a scam here, based on the fact, that the content is free. Thoughts?

Edit: "What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?" Yeah, I guess. A scam could be identity theft and so on... But we're thiking of "spend money" and "be entitled to stuff" here. I guess that is my point.

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[Majus]

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And your point is...?

Edit: Please formulate some argument...
Edit2: or not...

 

[IjjKpoe]

I'm not making excuses for developer. He clearly isn't doing the best job with managing his project. I'm arguing for what buying, paying and donating means.

My point is that you did not purchase anything. You did not pre-order anything. You downloaded a free game and made a voluntary and optional donation for it. Crush did not ask for money, the game is provided free of charge.

There are many flavours of "money exchanging hands", but in this case, donations and crowdfunding probably are most applicable. Since this game is free and this develoepr isn't "selling" anything tangible (like extra tiers or DLC), my argument is that this is a donation-based crowdfunding model. If not, then probably a pure donation collection model.
So you can critique the developer for not doing good community manegement and being wish-washy, but fundamentally/technically I doubt that there can even be a scam here, based on the fact, that the content is free. Thoughts?

Edit: "What's your point? If you don't buy it cant be a scam?" Yeah, I guess. A scam could be identity theft and so on... But we're thiking of "spend money" and "be entitled to stuff" here. I guess that is my point.

Your point is pointless because he isn't doing any Job. I will phrase it more... simple to understand

1. Crush publish his work and ASK for money to continue it
2. People likes his game so they trust him and pay him
3. After 6 years of not developing ANYTHING new and the last 28 months not even publishing anything people ask him "what the hell is happening"
4. Crush decide to blackmail people into "pay me more or i stop "developing" " so people has a dilema
-Keep paying a guy not doing his job
-Lose the money invested

You understand the scamming point? Or you gonna keep parroting the idiocy of "if you didn't buy it cannot be a scam because he didn't sell anything".

Scam, by oxford book with lots of words;

Diccionari
Definicions de:

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·

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scam
/skam/

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informal
noun
noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.
   a dishonest scheme to gain money or possessions from someone fraudulently, especially a complex or prolonged one.
   "it turned out that the investment opportunity was part of an elaborate and sophisticated scam"

SURPRISE, YOU DON'T NEED TO SELL ANYTHING TO SCAM!

 

[Majus]

Your point is pointless because he isn't doing any Job. I will phrase it more... simple to understand

1. Crush publish his work and ASK for money to continue it
2. People likes his game so they trust him and pay him
3. After 6 years of not developing ANYTHING new and the last 28 months not even publishing anything people ask him "what the hell is happening"
4. Crush decide to blackmail people into "pay me more or i stop "developing" " so people has a dilema
-Keep paying a guy not doing his job
-Lose the money invested

You understand the scamming point? Or you gonna keep parroting the idiocy of "if you didn't buy it cannot be a scam because he didn't sell anything".

Scam, by oxford book with lots of words;

Diccionari
Definicions de:

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·

You must be registered to see the links

scam
/skam/

You must be registered to see the links

informal
noun
noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.
   a dishonest scheme to gain money or possessions from someone fraudulently, especially a complex or prolonged one.
   "it turned out that the investment opportunity was part of an elaborate and sophisticated scam"

SURPRISE, YOU DON'T NEED TO SELL ANYTHING TO SCAM!

I'll share a quote from my post I made a few pages back:

Look at your quote again: "A scam ... is an attempt to defraud a person". Can you prove that Crush's intention or "attempt" is to deceive or "defraud" people into paying him money? A scam is something that is done intentionally. The problem here is that it's impossible to prove this either way, so people are assuming here... Yes, the situation is sad and unfortunate, but I can't say or see that people were deceived into giving him money.
...
Did Crush really (like really, explicitly) solicited for donations? Sorry, I don't follow his discord/whatever, so I might have missed that.

Edited: I'd really like you to share some proof to support your claims on blackmail and similar. And yes, as I've said before, paying is not a requirement for scam to happen: "A scam could be identity theft and so on". Again, in this case the content is free and the dev never sold you a pre-order to a product or promised deliveries of "X amount donated = something". Now people here are learning what risks having erroneous thinking entail and as that reality kicked in, we are having regrets. It's a good learning experience at least, I guess. I was thinking to write more, but I'm getting bored of this...

I guess people are here just to vent, for the last crime that wasn't claimed here is someone being financially raped by the developer. And probably this isn't the best place to try and discuss "models" of renumeration for that reason. I'll probably move to general forums to discuss this topic.

 

[IjjKpoe]

I'll share a quote from my post I made a few pages back:

Edited: I'd really like you to share some proof to support your claims on blackmail and similar. And yes, as I've said before, paying is not a requirement for scam to happen: "A scam could be identity theft and so on". Again, in this case the content is free and the dev never sold you a pre-order to a product or promised deliveries of "X amount donated = something". Now people here are learning what risks having erroneous thinking entail and as that reality kicked in, we are having regrets. It's a good learning experience at least, I guess. I was thinking to write more, but I'm getting bored of this...

I guess people are here just to vent, for the last crime that wasn't claimed here is someone being financially raped by the developer. And probably this isn't the best place to try and discuss "models" of renumeration for that reason. I'll probably move to general forums to discuss this topic.

Dunno mate... what more proof you want?

I can repeat the facts ad infinitum?

I think that the fact that he's been paid to make an update for 2 years and a half and his only action is posting patreon posts saying " i'm mental blocked, give money or i sad uwu the upcoming release will be 10000x hotter kisses" its.... factual enough.

You have his patreon posts
You have his discord comments

What the hell you need more? It's all damn fking public!

 

[Majus]

Dunno mate... what more proof you want?

I can repeat the facts ad infinitum?

I think that the fact that he's been paid to make an update for 2 years and a half and his only action is posting patreon posts saying " i'm mental blocked, give money or i sad uwu the upcoming release will be 10000x hotter kisses" its.... factual enough.

You have his patreon posts
You have his discord comments

What the hell you need more? It's all damn fking public!

I'm not going to shift trough 6 years worth of discord comments to find something that probably doesn't exist. If you want to claim something, then it would be a good idea to come up with material to support that.

Can you explain how is he paid by the community to do X and where this obligation comes from? Are you his eployer and the dev is your employee, is it a commision, etc? You make it sound like he's obligated to do X, but all I can see is that he could quit this at any point, no? Essentialy, where does this "contract" that he has to follow comes from? All I see is a random dude "making" a free game with optional donations on the side.

 

[Vibesy]

And your point is...?

Edit: Please formulate some argument... I'll go to bed soon, so I'll reply late. Cheers.

I'm not going to shift trough 6 years worth of discord comments to find something that probably doesn't exist. If you want to claim something, then it would be a good idea to come up with material to support that.

Can you explain how is he paid by the community to do X and where this obligation comes from? Are you his eployer and the dev is your employee, is it a commision, etc? You make it sound like he's obligated to do X, but all I can see is that he could quit this at any point, no? Essentialy, where does this "contract" that he has to follow comes from? All I see is a random dude "making" a free game with optional donations on the side.

Dude give it a rest already. You can have your interpretation, but it doesn't correspond to the model as defined by anyone. Crush doesn't have "donators" and he doesn't have "tippers". He isn't a charity case. He has supporters who are funding game development in exchange for content, some of which is exclusive. That's how Patreon defines it and how Crush defines it on his website & discord. If he never produces anything, then yes, supporters have a right to question exactly what they are funding, whether you like it or not. They have the right to question every aspect of his development approach, which is clearly deficient. They have the right to complain about the endless delays, the deadlines set and always dropped and the multi-year rewrites that are never completed. Those complaints apparently bother you a great deal, which begs the question of why you, as a proud non-supporter, feel entitled to criticize those who underwrote the game and now feel ripped-off? Because frankly your smugness is seriously tiresome.

 

[Majus]

Dude give it a rest already. You can have your interpretation, but it doesn't correspond to the model as defined by anyone. Crush doesn't have "donators" and he doesn't have "tippers". He isn't a charity case. He has supporters who are funding game development in exchange for content, some of which is exclusive. That's how Patreon defines it and how Crush defines it on his website & discord. If he never produces anything, then yes, supporters have a right to question exactly what they are funding, whether you like it or not. They have the right to question every aspect of his development approach, which is clearly deficient. They have the right to complain about the endless delays, the deadlines set and always dropped and the multi-year rewrites that are never completed. Those complaints apparently bother you a great deal, which begs the question of why you, as a proud non-supporter, feel entitled to criticize those who underwrote the game and now feel ripped-off? Because frankly your smugness is seriously tiresome.

Supporters defenitely can question or discuss the project, same as anyone else. It's not some private club that's hidden behind a paywall or similar.

My issue is partly technical partly self-interest/curiousity. If people want to pull out dictionaries and claim "scam by definition", then there has to be validity to that claim. IDK, maybe I'm wrong. My problem is that I'm interested in such model myself, for personal reasons, but appearantly such model is invalid. People's feelings are valid inherently, but they don't define reality. And if to question if all of this is wrong is a no-no, then I'd argue that to project feelings about the project is equally wrong too. If one side can talk freely and questioning it is shunned, then this is just a

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, not a place to discuss the project.

Anyway, cheers.

 

[chino222]

Dude, we're all here for fun, watch the thread, complain, laugh at the transparency reports, and gain strength from people who are going through the same thing as me. And you're stepping into our backyard, defending crush so fiercely, just like a few others before you. You can't defend this, it's a lost cause, you're just adding fuel to our good time.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I'm not going to shift trough 6 years worth of discord comments to find something that probably doesn't exist. If you want to claim something, then it would be a good idea to come up with material to support that.

Can you explain how is he paid by the community to do X and where this obligation comes from? Are you his eployer and the dev is your employee, is it a commision, etc? You make it sound like he's obligated to do X, but all I can see is that he could quit this at any point, no? Essentialy, where does this "contract" that he has to follow comes from? All I see is a random dude "making" a free game with optional donations on the side.

I already mentioned you should look at how real scams work and how they (obviously) don't publicly advertise "This is a scam and if you join you will be scammed!". But I will also suggest looking at the concept of de facto how it compares to de jure, and how so many things in our daily life are de facto but expliclitly not de jure

 

[Majus]

I already mentioned you should look at how real scams work and how they (obviously) don't publicly advertise "This is a scam and if you join you will be scammed!". But I will also suggest looking at the concept of de facto how it compares to de jure, and how so many things in our daily life are de facto but expliclitly not de jure

I understand defacto and and dejure. Same with scams, I believe.

My point is that people could be self-scamming. Self-deception, wishful thinking, confirmation bias, delusion (in a milder sense), cognitive dissonance reduction, self-sabotage ... all could be at play here too.

I got my answer either way, so I'm good. Thanks.

Eidt: I'll look into one of your mentioned scams a few pages ago a bit later and edit this post.
Edit2: So I looked into Theranos scam.
Theranos were claiming to have developed a product that works, but the results they were showing were not produced on their own equipment:
"A former senior employee stated that only a small fraction of the tests were conducted on the Edison machines and that the majority of the tests were handled on competitors’ equipment despite Theranos’s claims to the contrary."
They also found papers proving that they did this with the intent to defraud/deceive. So this is just a typical cookie cutter case of a "scam".

How this differs from Female Agent is that no one (in this thread) was able to come up with proof that this project is stalled specifically with the intention to deceive/defraud people. I'd also argue that here were no explicit promises made to deliver a product/service in the first place. So intent and fraud components are missing or unproven (even the "product", arguably, isn't defined), therefore we can't conlcude that a "scam" was commited here, since it requires both of those to be true/proven.

 

[IjjKpoe]

I'm not going to shift trough 6 years worth of discord comments to find something that probably doesn't exist. If you want to claim something, then it would be a good idea to come up with material to support that.

Can you explain how is he paid by the community to do X and where this obligation comes from? Are you his eployer and the dev is your employee, is it a commision, etc? You make it sound like he's obligated to do X, but all I can see is that he could quit this at any point, no? Essentialy, where does this "contract" that he has to follow comes from? All I see is a random dude "making" a free game with optional donations on the side.

What's your point then? You want proof and when we point it out you say "nah too much work!".

Also, someone else pointed out Patreon policy but you just keep making some twisted interpretation of it so you just have some justification to the most obvious Bad praxis i ever seen in a long time.

I will make my last attempt to make you see that you don't need to BUY to be scammed:

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