First game ambition

[jshizzle]

Hello guys,
I have decided to make my first game and I believe I've found the programs that will help me make this. Before I put time in to this, I've started to wonder if there are better programs I could use and is my project too ambitious for 1 person?

My game is inspired by those RPG Maker MZ Honey Select/Koikatsu games. I want to use honey select/koikatsu to create the characters and do animations.
I plan to have like 5-10 characters in this game and I'm thinking this might be too much.
The story I am not planning on making it isn't super long I think, I have the beginning, middle and end already planned out with a script for the first 2 days.
I don't have any experience with game making but these engines seem to be the easiest tools to use. I did think of using AI but I'm not so sure how I can take advantage of it.

There is no proper RPG combat in this game, engine is just used to make the world and go from A to B for events and dialogue and stuff.

So that's about it, you guys think this is too much for a first time developer going at it solo? Are there better options available for programs? Are there plugins that will help me save time? I also don't mind paying people to get some stuff done fast, but don't want to spend too much, I'd like to rely on myself to do stuff.

What you guys think?

 

[Winterfire]

use renpy

 

[jshizzle]

Hmm, it feels like with Renpy I have to go overboard with text and dialogue to compensate for nothing else to do but read.
And I'll have to create many, many, many more poses, scenes, etc in Koikatsu/Honey Select as the game will be based on text and images.

With RPG Maker MZ, I at least get a world for the player to walk around in and possibly find this or that.
I feel like because of the excess work from KK/HS + Renpy, it might be less stressful and work to use RPG Maker MZ + KK/HS.

But im no dev, this is all just thinking atm I havnt actually tried to make a scene in KK or HS, it could be very easy. I guess I'll go give it a try with some random characters.

 

[Winterfire]

With RPG Maker MZ, I at least get a world for the player to walk around in and possibly find this or that.

Walking around in a map created by a beginner who doesn't know what he's doing impresses no one, it's only an extra annoyance for the player, and you since you're adding an unnecessary extra step (or need to actually learn how to make decent maps, with purpose, which takes way more effort and time than you can imagine).

And for what?

There is no proper RPG combat in this game, engine is just used to make the world and go from A to B for events and dialogue and stuff.

This reads as "VN with extra steps" to me. You can have as much text as you want (same amount as you'd have with RPGM anyway), but make the movement from "A to B" less atrocious, despite your lack of experience.


This is a town in Ren'Py you could make:

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Nice looking, fast to reach the innkeeper, and if you forgot your sword at home, you can quickly click back.
In your 3000 x 3000 map because bigger is better, the player would quit halfway before reaching the innkeeper.

 

[Winterfire]

Also, if exploration is important, you can still do that in ren'py with a basic but efficient point and click:

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You can get the same results as you would in RPGM, but it's easier for you (you can create those maps directly in KK/HS), and the player can actually enjoy the exploration without getting frustrated.

 

[jshizzle]

I appreciate the help and I will look into those videos. Yes I am quite lazy which is why I'm looking for things that are simpler for me to do, which is why I have the original plan of going RPG Maker MZ because atm it seems like the easiest option, easier than creating multiple scene after scene in KK or HS.

This doesn't mean I'm going to create a game half heartedly just because I feel like RPGM+ KK/HS is less work. I'm planning on adding things to keep the player engaged which is what I mean by this and that, giving something meaningful/engaging for the player to do or collect while doing the main story. I probably should've been a bit clear on that.

I am not planning on doing a "3000x3000" map, I only said what I said about Renpy + KK/HS combo because that's how I see it with my 0 experience and this is why I'm here to get clarification and see what other people say.

Again help is appreciated will go through those videos and your guide and see if it can help me, thanks.

 

[Winterfire]

I appreciate the help and I will look into those videos. Yes I am quite lazy which is why I'm looking for things that are simpler for me to do, which is why I have the original plan of going RPG Maker MZ because atm it seems like the easiest option, easier than creating multiple scene after scene in KK or HS.

This doesn't mean I'm going to create a game half heartedly it just because I feel like renpy + KK/HS is more work.

It's the other way around, at least if you want to give the player a nice experience.
Plus, KK/HS comes with a high variety of assets which are easy to edit within studio, but it also comes with tons of premade maps.

You just take a screenshot of those from the character's pov, put imagebuttons for arrow directions, and some circle imagebutton for interactables. You can also give your game some consistency by having those same maps also show up in scenes that you'll also be doing in KK/HS, not to mention the character sprites (which would be vastly different as charsets, unless you want to make charsets of your KK/HS characters, which would be extra effort and I doubt it'd turn as good).

 

[jshizzle]

Using KK/HS for its assets and studio is something I plan to do. And yes I do see what you are saying about the charsets, I did buy Autosprite or Acesprite to help me make the sprites if I wanted to make things but haven't given it a try yet.

In terms of workload I see it like this:

Renpy + KK/HS = More scenes which means: Different poses, expressions etc etc for each bit of dialogue, sure I can have 1 unique scene image (unique scene image meaning the pose & expression of character(s)) for more than 1 dialogue but I have to keep it reasonable, like for example 5 bits of dialogue for 1 unique scene image. Also coding and stuff right?

RPG Maker MZ + KK/HS = Building the world (Which isnt going to be that big), character sets, events. For dialogue, the characters will be KK/HS made with templates for emotion and poses (general talking stuff), some scenes that are important will have unique poses and emotion for dialogue.

All KK/HS studio made scenes & environments can be implemented in both engines, for example all animations and any important scene that can be used as an image for the story.

There may be something else I'm forgetting but with the comparison I'm showing now, you're saying Renpy + KK/HS will be less time and hassle?

 

[AllNatural939]

Interesting move… You ask for something easier, someone gives you the answer, and then you still go your own way. If you’re not doing any combat or anything, RenPy’s clearly the best choice. But whatever… it’s your decision. Just don’t say you weren’t told. Makes me wonder why you asked at all.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

There may be something else I'm forgetting but with the comparison I'm showing now, you're saying Renpy + KK/HS will be less time and hassle?

Take it from me, someone who used both RPGM and KK, Renpy is easier if your game doesn't have combat. Hell, it might still be easier even if your game has combat as long as you know your way around variables.

 

[Quintillian]

“lazy”, “simple”, and “gamedev”... oh, how I wish I could be this blissfully innocent.

Anyways, use the tools you feel more confortable. As a solo dev, it is you against you and the world. The odds are stacked against you, so whatever makes the dev experience better is just a flat win.

Good luck!

 

[jshizzle]

Interesting move… You ask for something easier, someone gives you the answer, and then you still go your own way. If you’re not doing any combat or anything, RenPy’s clearly the best choice. But whatever… it’s your decision. Just don’t say you weren’t told. Makes me wonder why you asked at all.

Take it from me, someone who used both RPGM and KK, Renpy is easier if your game doesn't have combat. Hell, it might still be easier even if your game has combat as long as you know your way around variables.

Thanks guys, was just curious about development time that's all.
I am listening to the advice here, I've taken serious thought into Renpy and that video explaining the map design and coding was great.

It looks like I will go forward with it and I hope sometime I will release this game for you guys.
Thanks all and thanks Winterfire for the videos.

 

[TranceParentDev]

I agree with the others that say renpy if its just a story telling thing. If you want to do game play and want it to be less cookie cutter, go with something like Unity, but that's not going to be easy.

Good Luck!

 

[XforU]

I'll be honest... A lot of people will never play your game just because it's rpgm . Renpy has more mass appeal. From what you've listed, you're better off making a point and click game in Renpy.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

As someone who is finishing the first episode of their first game, I think I can be helpful.

1. Start small. This has been an exceptionally challenging undertaking for us. We're pleased with ourselves that we kept things "small", but they should have been smaller. There are going to be countless challenges as you try to get your game off the ground, so keeping things small will help prevent you from getting bogged down.
2. That's a lot of characters. It's ok to have that many under consideration, but I'd introduce them slowly and see how the story organically develops. Don't rush them into the story just because they exist on paper.
3. Unless you have a compelling gameplay reason for RPGM, I'd stick to RenPy.
4. Be flexible. Be careful about pre-writing too much of the story before hand. While it makes sense to write things out first, I think that can get people into trouble. If you're writing a detailed script without knowing if you have the assets, computing power, or ability to skillfully create the scenes, you can get in over your head. Flexibility is really under appreciated.
5. You're an amateur. That's ok, so am I. Just remember it. You've never created a game before or (I assume) written anything for public consumption. You are going to struggle. Your story won't be as good as you think. Your art won't be as good as you expected. That's ok, you have to start somewhere. But this relates back to #1, you're an amateur so start small. Maybe focus on making something that's light and fun, maybe just focus on a proof of concept for now while you learn the tools. But don't over-commit, don't put yourself in position to become discouraged. If a story element isn't working out, remember that you're an amateur. Pivot away from it instead of trying to force it to work.

I hope that's helpful.

 

[jshizzle]

Thanks for the advice,
my plan is like you said to introduce the characters slowly overtime in the story. I think I have been doing too much pre-writing, I've got a lot of days planned out even the end scenes. (Not the dialogue)

Sometimes it feels like the "overwhelming" feeling of learning to code and make the world in Renpy or RPG Maker makes me focus on story writing as a way to escape the game development as it makes me feel like I'm still developing my game.
Sounds weird, I need to start just doing things instead of thinking too much, being flexible as you said.

I did have some reasons for why I chose RPG Maker but it does seem like Renpy is more convenient for developers and more popular for players.

That's it, I will get things started TODAY. Instead of writing more stuff I'll just make the characters in KK/HS and once that's done I'll make the world. I need a goal to help push me to do this so I'll say next month I will plan to release the first part of the game. (I feel like that's ambitious, but whatever)

Thanks again and by the way, what's your game called? Will check it out if its released.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Thanks for the advice,
my plan is like you said to introduce the characters slowly overtime in the story. I think I have been doing too much pre-writing, I've got a lot of days planned out even the end scenes. (Not the dialogue)

Sometimes it feels like the "overwhelming" feeling of learning to code and make the world in Renpy or RPG Maker makes me focus on story writing as a way to escape the game development as it makes me feel like I'm still developing my game.
Sounds weird, I need to start just doing things instead of thinking too much, being flexible as you said.

I did have some reasons for why I chose RPG Maker but it does seem like Renpy is more convenient for developers and more popular for players.

That's it, I will get things started TODAY. Instead of writing more stuff I'll just make the characters in KK/HS and once that's done I'll make the world. I need a goal to help push me to do this so I'll say next month I will plan to release the first part of the game. (I feel like that's ambitious, but whatever)

Thanks again and by the way, what's your game called? Will check it out if its released.

ChatGPT was a tremendous help when it came to coding. We knew NOTHING about coding when we started planning the game. Even the best youtube tutorials felt overwhelming and it was frustrating because everyone's situation is juuuuuuussstttt different enough from the tutorials that your question is never exactly answered. But Chatgpt really helped bridge the gap when used in conjunction with the tutorials.

ChatGPT was also really helpful for helping organize our thoughts around the story and the points system. It was immensely helpful to have something to bounce ideas off of. We didn't use it to create any content, we felt that it was important that all the content come from us, but if for nothing else it's nice to have a system that you can talk through your thoughts with.

It's good to begin, it's too easy to just talk about it or plan forever. You have to start somewhere, but I wouldn't start with the intention of making the first part of the game. Aim lower, keep things small. Start with a demo. Something that's completely standalone with three or four of the main characters you envision for the game. Give it a finite cap of renders, something like 30, so that you don't wander aimlessly. Tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end within those finite number of renders. It can be something mundane, the point is simply to create something to completion. If you start on the game itself first, you're going to make a ton of errors that will make life more complicated down the road.

Our game is called Emily Does it All. It's a simple slice of life game about a college student and her adventuers. I won't hijack your thread though, but when it comes out take a look.

 

[Erosoft]

Ignore the RPGM haters. It's a fine engine to make your first game. That being said, you should make sure that you want to develop a top-down RPG first and foremost. If that's the type of game you want to make, use RPGM.

However, in your OP, you make no mention of gameplay other than "point A and point B". You mention art, story, and characters. If you're not all that interested in making a game for the sake of gameplay, you can indeed save a lot of development time by using something like RenPy. It's "harder to fail" in RenPy, whereas with RPGM it's easy to make a tedious game if you don't have your game design down.