From novel to visual novel (need help)

[Nobody Cares]

A few months ago I have completed my first actual game in HTML format using TWINE. It is called Looking Back. It is a simple CYOA, story first and game second. It has no images but it is a complete story.

I am for my part very happy with how it turned out. Feedback was very positive, even if it did not generate much revenue. Something to be expected with text-based games, which are not the most popular.

So I have been thinking, what if I could turn this into a more traditional project? How difficult would it be to turn this novel into a visual novel? I would need to hire someone who can do visual arts and I was wondering how much that could cost, considering that a 0.1 would include 5 characters, at least one elaborated sex scene and a few other titillating scenes.
Should I go 2d or 3d? Can I as a complete noobie learn how to code in renpy reasonably fast or will I need a programmer? Got any other pointer of sorts?

Thank you all upfront.

All the best

 

[Saint Blackmoor]

Hey,
I read your post. I think your HTML game could be made into a VN.
I haven't played/read it yet, well, the first page. I thought it was good, the little I read.
I'm a proofreader here, so right away, I'm looking for issues. I did see some, but not much.
It's a matter of syntax, really.

Whatever you decide to do, I can help with making the dialogue flow better.

DM me if you want to talk more.

 

[Marsg1226]

For graphics you can try messing around with studio neo from Honey Select 2, it has a big community and animation assets, you can even make your own animations with a few tricks (piston, gimmicks, etc)

these are some examples made by me of what you can achive in studio neo, just have in mind i'm not artist at all

Spoiler: samples

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[Nobody Cares]

Neat! Though I would prefer someone truly proficient with the tool than learning how to do it myself. Visual art is not my passion and I fear even with my best effort I would deliver a subpar product. What can I reasonably buy with a budget of about 4/500$?

 

[Droid Productions]

Neat! Though I would prefer someone truly proficient with the tool than learning how to do it myself. Visual art is not my passion and I fear even with my best effort I would deliver a subpar product. What can I reasonably buy with a budget of about 4/500$?

Sadly not much, especially if you want someone truly proficient. Studio Neo is a good choice to get started, just keep in mind that there are IP issues with it (since you're essentially taking screenshots from another devs game, you're blocking yourself from the largest market, Steam).

The alternative is Daz3D, which is a lot slower (and more HW demanding), but less copyright encumbered.

2D is... expensive. At least to do properly. There's a fulltime team of 6 2D artists and 3 contractors working on Paradise Lust / Sinners Landing; 500 USD doesn't get you very far.

 

[Nobody Cares]

Sadly not much, especially if you want someone truly proficient. Studio Neo is a good choice to get started, just keep in mind that there are IP issues with it (since you're essentially taking screenshots from another devs game, you're blocking yourself from the largest market, Steam).

The alternative is Daz3D, which is a lot slower (and more HW demanding), but less copyright encumbered.

2D is... expensive. At least to do properly. There's a fulltime team of 6 2D artists and 3 contractors working on Paradise Lust / Sinners Landing; 500 USD doesn't get you very far.

Sad but useful to know. Thanks. I could perhaps looking for a 3d artist willing to support me by sharing profits. Tough call, but what else is one to do? I could offer an obscene percentage of the income perhaps... In your estimation, how complicated is to learn Renpy compared to twine?

 

[Droid Productions]

In your estimation, how complicated is to learn Renpy compared to twine?

Not very. There's (as always) a lot of optional depth, but in practice you'll use like 5 features 90% of the time (set up a character, set up a scene, say X with character Y, xfade from scene A to scene B, play video).

The tutorial is an interactive game; go download it and play with it, you'll get the bulk of the stuff that you need in 30 mins.

 

[osanaiko]

So I have been thinking, what if I could turn this into a more traditional project? How difficult would it be to turn this novel into a visual novel?

Remember there is a middle ground - you can have a fairly low number of large images that stay visible while large blocks of text are shown below/overlaid. A number of Twine/HTML games could be described as like this.
RenPy has something called "NVL mode" specifically for this type of game, where it's more like a children's storybook. Admittedly, it's not a very popular format. Anyway, you can get by with potentially only one image every 1-3 paragraphs, and as a bonus you won't have to spend a lot of effort converting the existing text into a line-by-line dialogue script.

 

[Nobody Cares]

It seems 3d will be my only option, but I will still need someone competent that can do the lion's share of the work. Not easy spending so much time and effort on someone else's vision. I could offer a 50% share, with some money upfront perhaps? Too little? Too much?

 

[osanaiko]

If you're seriously looking to find a collaborator, or a work-for-reward artist, then the place to look is the recruitment subforum: https://f95zone.to/forums/recruitment-services.117/

Being realistic, you're unlikely to find an experienced person who is willing to work for a cut of future revenue - it's just got too much risk of the same old "checks in the mail" story all over again. So that leaves either funding it yourself initially, or taking on a less experienced person and work with them as they learn (and then give them the cut of revenue anyway).

One thing that will help is going in with a clear plan about the images you want (the look, how many, image descriptions), that way you can estimate how much effort is needed. (hint: its a lot! a similar volume to the effort you would have put into writing the story).

And finally: adding illustrations to an existing story can be difficult because of the range of 3d assets that are available doesn't necessarily match what is described in the text. While there are lots of clothing items for daz, it can be surprisingly hard to get an exact match to a written description. It's a reasonably common advice when making a VN to first come up with storyboard at a good amount of descriptive detail but not set-in-stone dialogue, then do the images, and then come back and write the words. This is specifically because you may find that stuff you can imagine is not possible to render effectively - so you get as close as possible and then write the details around the images.

 

[Nobody Cares]

If you're seriously looking to find a collaborator, or a work-for-reward artist, then the place to look is the recruitment subforum: https://f95zone.to/forums/recruitment-services.117/

Being realistic, you're unlikely to find an experienced person who is willing to work for a cut of future revenue - it's just got too much risk of the same old "checks in the mail" story all over again. So that leaves either funding it yourself initially, or taking on a less experienced person and work with them as they learn (and then give them the cut of revenue anyway).

One thing that will help is going in with a clear plan about the images you want (the look, how many, image descriptions), that way you can estimate how much effort is needed. (hint: its a lot! a similar volume to the effort you would have put into writing the story).

And finally: adding illustrations to an existing story can be difficult because of the range of 3d assets that are available doesn't necessarily match what is described in the text. While there are lots of clothing items for daz, it can be surprisingly hard to get an exact match to a written description. It's a reasonably common advice when making a VN to first come up with storyboard at a good amount of descriptive detail but not set-in-stone dialogue, then do the images, and then come back and write the words. This is specifically because you may find that stuff you can imagine is not possible to render effectively - so you get as close as possible and then write the details around the images.

First and foremost, thanks for taking the time to reply and help me. I appreciate it a great deal .

Secondly, yeah, I have learned to hate improvisation. Putting together a storyboard and pitching it in the recruitment subforum could be a good start. I have done something of the sort only once and it was rather amateurish. Do you have any recommendations on how to proceed? A standard format I should follow? A tutorial that may help me get started?

 

[osanaiko]

First and foremost, thanks for taking the time to reply and help me. I appreciate it a great deal .

Secondly, yeah, I have learned to hate improvisation. Putting together a storyboard and pitching it in the recruitment subforum could be a good start. I have done something of the sort only once and it was rather amateurish. Do you have any recommendations on how to proceed? A standard format I should follow? A tutorial that may help me get started?

These are not easy questions to answer, for a few reasons:
a) i've never done a storyboard for a game before so all I can do is offer "distilled from many other forum posts" advice
b) your situation is unusual in that you already have a fully written story script

That said, the following might help:

- https://f95zone.to/threads/winterfires-talentless-guide-on-how-to-make-a-game.154572/
- and search your fav search engine for "Game Design Document Template"

I'd suggest that rather that being most important as a "pitch document", a storyboard is something more useful as a guideline/roadmap for the dev process itself. But if it gets some artist on board with your project, then all to the better.

Note that in your case, your storboardy might not even have any images - it could just be adding detailed comments to the game script in each place where there will be an image.

Here's another thing : it's quite possible to make a game with "tachie" character images, rather than have every single image being a full screen daz render. Tachie is the old school VN style where there are character sprites that are shown over top of generic backgrounds. As the dialogue plays out, the tachie images are swapped depending on who is present and what their feeling is (normal, angry, sad, horny, etc). Then you can get by with only a relative handful of images for the characters in the talky talky parts of the game. You save your budget for the big important sex scenes, where your artist draws full screen images of the character in various lewd poses. Sure, a tachie style game is not as immersive or flexible as a full rendered game, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper with regards to artist effort. NOTE: the example game "The Question" that comes with Renpy uses Tachie style.

Small aside on generating enthusiasm: think about what might motivate a random person on this forum to work with you on your game. I'd suggest that making them excited by the story, even horny for the characters, would work better than intellectual appeals like "you might make some money in the future". So in some ways, you are looking for that center of the venn diagram of individuals who "really really loves your game story", "has some art skills and wants to use them to improve", and "has lots of time they can commit". The last two are kind of random, but the first - you should make your appeal to wherever the fans of your story are gathering (or even add a final "please come join me" screen to your existing game!).

Edit: I remembered what else I wanted to say.
You say you have no artistic talent or interest in learning. But... do you have mental images of what the characters look like? what the environment they live/work/fuck in looks like?
If so, can you scour the internets for images that approximate those character looks / art style / environment / eyes, hair, boobs etc etc etc?
Build up a collection of example images that can be used to spark the imagination / direct an artist towards what you want. For example, in your mind the main female character has a face that looks like "this" - but how do you describe "this" to someone in a way that they can reproduce an image that matches your imagination? Odds on, you can't. but you *can* find a picture of a celebrity or two and say "she looks like this, but with hair from this other picture".

 

[Nobody Cares]

These are not easy questions to answer, for a few reasons:
a) i've never done a storyboard for a game before so all I can do is offer "distilled from many other forum posts" advice
b) your situation is unusual in that you already have a fully written story script

That said, the following might help:

- https://f95zone.to/threads/winterfires-talentless-guide-on-how-to-make-a-game.154572/
- and search your fav search engine for "Game Design Document Template"

I'd suggest that rather that being most important as a "pitch document", a storyboard is something more useful as a guideline/roadmap for the dev process itself. But if it gets some artist on board with your project, then all to the better.

Note that in your case, your storboardy might not even have any images - it could just be adding detailed comments to the game script in each place where there will be an image.

Here's another thing : it's quite possible to make a game with "tachie" character images, rather than have every single image being a full screen daz render. Tachie is the old school VN style where there are character sprites that are shown over top of generic backgrounds. As the dialogue plays out, the tachie images are swapped depending on who is present and what their feeling is (normal, angry, sad, horny, etc). Then you can get by with only a relative handful of images for the characters in the talky talky parts of the game. You save your budget for the big important sex scenes, where your artist draws full screen images of the character in various lewd poses. Sure, a tachie style game is not as immersive or flexible as a full rendered game, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper with regards to artist effort. NOTE: the example game "The Question" that comes with Renpy uses Tachie style.

Small aside on generating enthusiasm: think about what might motivate a random person on this forum to work with you on your game. I'd suggest that making them excited by the story, even horny for the characters, would work better than intellectual appeals like "you might make some money in the future". So in some ways, you are looking for that center of the venn diagram of individuals who "really really loves your game story", "has some art skills and wants to use them to improve", and "has lots of time they can commit". The last two are kind of random, but the first - you should make your appeal to wherever the fans of your story are gathering (or even add a final "please come join me" screen to your existing game!).

Edit: I remembered what else I wanted to say.
You say you have no artistic talent or interest in learning. But... do you have mental images of what the characters look like? what the environment they live/work/fuck in looks like?
If so, can you scour the internets for images that approximate those character looks / art style / environment / eyes, hair, boobs etc etc etc?
Build up a collection of example images that can be used to spark the imagination / direct an artist towards what you want. For example, in your mind the main female character has a face that looks like "this" - but how do you describe "this" to someone in a way that they can reproduce an image that matches your imagination? Odds on, you can't. but you *can* find a picture of a celebrity or two and say "she looks like this, but with hair from this other picture".

This is all great advice. I used to play my share of tachie games back in the day. I think it would suit my needs quite well. I could put together a demo with a few assets and one, perhaps even 2 sexy scenes... gotta get to work!

 

[Nobody Cares]

One more thing I was considering: using AI art to make the backgrounds. I am not fond of AI, more for practical reasons than ethical ones. Still, do you think I could use it to make a few simple things such as "Nightclub, inside; apartment, inside; schoolbus; school corridors; class, etc."? Any particular program I should consider?

 

[osanaiko]

One more thing I was considering: using AI art to make the backgrounds. I am not fond of AI, more for practical reasons than ethical ones. Still, do you think I could use it to make a few simple things such as "Nightclub, inside; apartment, inside; schoolbus; school corridors; class, etc."? Any particular program I should consider?

I used "stability matrix" to install "Stable Diffusion Webui (automatic1111)" and got the following in <5mins of messing with prompts:

 

[Nobody Cares]

Oh hell yeah!