Game Design: Locked Content vs Full Clear

[whiskeyrose]

So I'm kicking around the makings of a new twine game which in all likelihood will live and die on my flash drive. But I'm wanting to put a finger on the pulse of the community when it comes to lewd games. Basically I'm torn between designing a game where all content can be viewed in a single run, or a game where your choices lock you out of content and requires several playthroughs to view it all.

As a designer, I like having player choices lock out content. It makes choices meaningful and allows me to have more freedom with character changes. However when I'm a player and I load up a game like that, the firs thing I do is load up cheat engine and rip the project apart so I don't miss out on content.

However, many games use the model where all the content is available in a single playthrough. Games like Corruption, MILFY city, Summertime Saga. In this design, characters and stories are just waiting for the player to push it along. You can fuck off with different characters or events and the remaining events will be right there waiting for you to get to them when you're ready. On paper it sounds boring, with the player just mindlessly progressing without any actual thought. But at the same time, I've put a metric shitload of time into games like that and like it.

So to make an example of what I mean. In a game (I'm making up off the top of my head) you have your little sister/cousin/best friend who you're slowly corrupting. At a point in the story you have the option of her becoming a bimbo, or maybe a lesbian, or perhaps have an affection for whips and chains. In the closed design, your choice is permanent and her character is changed from your choice. In the open design, you can always come back and just change her to another affection with whatever mechanic you used to do it in the first place.

So basically, do you mind it when content in your game is locked out because of choices? Or do you always want the option to unlock 100% of the content in a single playthrough?

 

[thecardinal]

I prefer having the option of multiple playthroughs, as both a player and a dev. With user choices affecting content in the game, I can really indulge some fetishes for those who choose those routes, rather than making a blanket game that tries to appease everyone's tastes.

 

[Nottravis]

Firstly good luck to you on this. Hope it goes well for you. Secondly....

It makes choices meaningful and allows me to have more freedom with character changes.

In my opinion I think that one line catches it nicely.

I suppose it comes down to "Is it a game or is it a VN?" If the former then the choices should, in my view, branch and that will mean content locked out due to that very nature (not all content has to lewd of course) and, as

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says, it allows for multiple playthroughs and keeps the game fresh. My Girlfriend's Amnesia did this really well as an example and my little project has locked out content planned all over the place.

Your call of course

 

[Chingonerio]

Don't most players "save scum" before choices, battles, and the like anyway if they're allowed to? Unless you're going to make your game's save files incredibly obtuse to overwrite, even having a permanent "common" save file that keeps track of whether or not players did things in previous playthroughs to lock content is probably going to be overridden by sufficiently stubborn or industrious folk (or by the people willing to help them). For a Twine game made with SugarCube or the like, a lot of people have their browser's console open and ready to cheat variable values and flag states as they like, so you'll still find people doing "one playthrough" if you design branching paths.

If your question is absolutely about preference down to the individual, I'm sorry to say that I'm ultimately indifferent. Both have been done so often, both well and poorly. Sometimes they're written into the game's plot using some setting like time travel or alternate universes, which can be nice if it's done well. Sometimes it's just a boring, unexplained "Reset" item that no one in-universe acknowledges, which is fine when the story is definitely not trying to take itself seriously. I don't mind either, really: There's no shortage of games both mainstream or indie, suitable for work or not, that have New Game+ type mechanics or plots that expect you to play through two or more different paths to unlock even more content. I've been conditioned to expect either.

The only thing I really care about with regards to inaccessible content is whether or not it was intentionally locked: If the content exists but it's only inaccessible due to programming errors or because the developer just chose not to use the assets they made even though they're included with the download, that bothers me. The latter upsets me moreso if the unused content is inflating the game's file size significantly, and/or if you're forced to have the whole thing to run the game due to some aggressive loading check.

But that's not the kind of "locked content" you're talking about at all, I think.

 

[mouseguru]

As a dev who's working on a Twine game with so-called "locked content," I find the appeal of different choices/paths, both as a dev and as a player, hugely appealing. Although I generally like VNs, I strongly prefer more "open-world" games where choices matter.

I find that I enjoy games more when they have strongly characterized NPCs (meaning, they're well fleshed out, with a decent amount of backstory, and their words and actions are consistent with their character), but the same goes for PCs. And the best way for a PC to be strongly characterized is by giving them the ability to make meaningful choices. e.g., you can choose to be a bit evil, dominating and lecherous, or nice-but-lewd. It's not JUST about seeing all of the sex scenes (although I'll be honest -- I do tend to save-scum to find as many as I can).

Granted, it's much harder to make GOOD games with meaningful choices, but imho it's worth the extra effort.

That being said, I've had a few people complain about "not knowing what to do" in my game -- which means two things. 1) The in-game content might be a bit too vague or obscure in explaining things, and/or 2) I need a f*cking game guide so people can have a good idea of what content is available, and then pick what they want to see.

If you're going to "lock content," may I suggest a well-written game guide?

 

[deadacct]

I think that multiple playthroughs of a game are fine, as long as the additional playthroughs add a significant amount of variety to the experience. This isn't a struggle unique to adult games, by any means. Even some of the best VNs, like Ever17, risk alienating readers with long sections of same-y content. I also think that a player's response to multiple playthroughs is different depending on whether or not they were expecting to go through a game multiple times.

My advice would be to set expectations up front, so that the players have the right attitude heading in. Since so many games allow all the content to be seen in one go, I think people might be put-off if they expect the same from your game but don't get it.

 

[Domiek]

I wouldn't mind having multiple playthroughs but i can't recall playing a game where your choices drastically changed the game. It's normally just a slightly different flavor of text and a couple cg's.

It the choices make a big difference then I'd definitely bother with doing a second run.

 

[TheFallacyGuy]

If you're going to "lock content," may I suggest a well-written game guide?

I personally see that as trying to dodge the problem rather than facing it head on. If I want to play a game, I don't feel like having to dig through a goddamn guide to get to the stuff I want. You might as well not have meaningful choices to begin with then.

The thing with erotic games is that it needs to present pornographic content and a gaming experience at the same time, and no matter how I try to tackle those things in my mind, I just have to conclude that those two things really don't go together that well. It's why I think porn games are actually really interesting from a game design perspective.

On one hand it would be cool to have like... an actual game with consequences and difficulty and all that, but on the other hand most people also just want to see 3D polygons rub their artificial genitals together without too much of a hassle, because stress kills any form of sexual excitement. And those weirdos (like me) who would rather sacrifice a bit of sexiness for game design are most likely in the minority.

I personally think that if you want to make a game with locked paths, then do it. If you want to limit save-scumming and cheat engining, I suggest just being upfront about exactly what kind of content people miss by going on certain paths. If people know that one path leads to incest while the other leads to exhibitionism then people can at least sometimes make an easy decision based on their sexual preferences. Because that's the thing. A good porn game adheres to both sexual stimulation and normal stimulation (AKA fun).

Those are my two cents at least.

 

[mouseguru]

I personally see that as trying to dodge the problem rather than facing it head on. If I want to play a game, I don't feel like having to dig through a goddamn guide to get to the stuff I want. You might as well not have meaningful choices to begin with then.

The thing with erotic games is that it needs to present pornographic content and a gaming experience at the same time, and no matter how I try to tackle those things in my mind, I just have to conclude that those two things really don't go together that well. It's why I think porn games are actually really interesting from a game design perspective.

On one hand it would be cool to have like... an actual game with consequences and difficulty and all that, but on the other hand most people also just want to see 3D polygons rub their artificial genitals together without too much of a hassle, because stress kills any form of sexual excitement. And those weirdos (like me) who would rather sacrifice a bit of sexiness for game design are most likely in the minority.

I personally think that if you want to make a game with locked paths, then do it. If you want to limit save-scumming and cheat engining, I suggest just being upfront about exactly what kind of content people miss by going on certain paths. If people know that one path leads to incest while the other leads to exhibitionism then people can at least sometimes make an easy decision based on their sexual preferences. Because that's the thing. A good porn game adheres to both sexual stimulation and normal stimulation (AKA fun).

Those are my two cents at least.

I understand where you're coming from. It might help to know that my game involves far more than just a simple choice of fetish. For instance, the game includes three "professions" -- Alchemist, Sorceress, and Hunter (the last one doesn't have much content yet), and although there's a lot of overlap for how the game plays for these professions, there are also some significant differences. Yes, they do lead to uncovering slightly different fetishes (at least currently), but more importantly, they allow important story distinctions.

In the game, sorcery can only be practiced by women, and it's lust-based magic -- meaning, every spell you cast as a sorceress, arouses you a little. Sorcery can also be used for item-crafting (although that's not implemented for PCs yet, there's an NPC who uses it for item-crafting). This allows for certain events and scenes that just wouldn't happen for an alchemist character.

Also, in my game, your house eventually gets attacked by a large group of tentacles. Depending on whether you win or lose that battle (as well as certain other choices before the attack happens), you'll experience a very different story afterwards. (Note that I haven't coded the rest of the story yet -- just the tentacle attack. But I've already plotted out what needs to happen afterwards.)

Basically, I use character options and story choices like this, to provide MORE VARIETY of content. Putting it all in one playthrough simply wouldn't make sense, story-wise.

If you'd prefer porn games just for the sex or fetishes, you're better off playing a VN, tbh.

 

[whiskeyrose]

I prefer having the option of multiple playthroughs, as both a player and a dev. With user choices affecting content in the game, I can really indulge some fetishes for those who choose those routes, rather than making a blanket game that tries to appease everyone's tastes.

That's true, you can add some more obscure content that people can avoid. My thoughts were more like choices you make having ripping effects in the game. So like a choice you made near the start will effect which scene you have access to at hour 2.

Don't most players "save scum" before choices, battles, and the like anyway if they're allowed to?

The only thing I really care about with regards to inaccessible content is whether or not it was intentionally locked: If the content exists but it's only inaccessible due to programming errors or because the developer just chose not to use the assets they made even though they're included with the download, that bothers me.

Indeed. I'm talking about content locked based on choices, not errors.

Sure savescumming is a thing. But I'm thinking more like choices that have rippling effects. Rather than the simple "Choose scene 1A or 1B" That you can just reload a save to see the other. I'm thinking more like, you're constantly making choices that change future scenes. So when you replay, 80% of the content is the same, but there's a bit of variation there.

 

[Chingonerio]

I'm thinking more like, you're constantly making choices that change future scenes. So when you replay, 80% of the content is the same, but there's a bit of variation there.

Well, the most frequent source of minor variations I can think of are the situations where the changes are purely cosmetic: Stuff like props added to the background of areas depending on gifts or trophies received or given, clothing, etc. I feel it's kind of rare in adult games, though.

Adult RPG Maker games with "depravity" or "shame" variable tracking tend to do this with dialogue and CG, though, where characters' dialogue and expressions change to reflect the degree of enthusiasm or lack thereof, but rarely choose to do so for all the characters in-game so much as for one or two- most probably the protagonist.

AzureZero's Damsel Quest 3 does something relatively elaborate with its "branching" ending bit, where the tail-end of the game varies wildly depending on whether or not you got none, one, or two certain key items before hitting a "point of no return:" They vary from dealing with an impending apocalypse with a time limit, dealing with the partial aftermath of said apocalypse, or being bored due to having prevented it wholesale and visiting a mind-controlling mage's casino. Then there's an ending unlocked by having seen all three of these routes' endings, on top of that.

That last one is probably closer to what I thought you meant, but it's very rare to see it in execution.

 

[whiskeyrose]

Well, the most frequent source of minor variations I can think of are the situations where the changes are purely cosmetic: Stuff like props added to the background of areas depending on gifts or trophies received or given, clothing, etc. I feel it's kind of rare in adult games, though.

The best example of what I mean is Wife Trainer. In the game you work with clients to train their wives to be different (confident, more sexual, whatever). But at the end of each client you can shift them in dramatic ways. Maybe you make them a lesbian, or maybe your mistress, or maybe some mindless slave. But no matter what you do, after you're done you move on to other clients. Sometimes your old clients interact with new ones, sometimes little events are reliant upon what your previous clients are. So while 80% of the game stays the same, if I want to see how future choices interact I have to restart and train an earlier client differently.

 

[FlatChestDev]

We're pro-multiple playtroughs too, but this also highly depends on the impact choices have in a given game and on how enjoyable your story will be if played only once.

If it's a typical VN paradigm with a few choices that set you on a certain route, it's pretty natural to read all the routes to get the full story. But if it's more like a western RPG with a ton of "dialogue options" and other small choices with local and/or cosmetic impact, people are less likely to go for a "100% completion".
We know there are people who advocate one playthrough approach in all kinds of games. That's why most modern AAA games are theme parks, where you can get all the rewards "On a single save".

It's an interesting topic and requires careful consideration.

And hey, good luck with your game!

 

[Kaiww]

I have to say that I have no problems if I have to play a game multiply times to get all content.
The Question is always is there enough unlocked content that a Game makes sense to play again ?

When u only get two small changes during a second Play through would you be satisfied with spending another Hour on it ? (But there are games you can easily replay four or five times without having additional content so it is depending how replay able your game is in the beginning. )

Always a question of personal taste I guess.

regards
Kai

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

It really depends on the structure of the game. If we're talking a sandbox life sim with options for corruption, yeah, it should be good to have that content available and not locked behind some missable event. In a VN, obviously choices have to be made that affect the rest of the story, so it's less feasible. My ideal for a corruption-style game is one that has tons of options, lets players set the pace, and does not force any H-content on the player that they didn't choose. My mantra is that more choice = good, so I prefer a design that allows for that.

Let's take a game I played recently, Dilmur. It has a female MC and a corruption mechanic that is increased by her playing H-games, which you can choose to do or not do, at your leisure. As far as I can tell, if her Lust is not high enough, she'll either turn down sexual situations automatically, or lock out the option when you are given a choice in how to handle a situation. There is also a cap to the H-games and, by extension, Lust that you can have at any given point in the story. I think this is a good compromise that gives the player more control than a linear corruption curve with missable triggers and routes. You can start turning her into a slut early, or late, or go through the whole game with a prude, and the scenes will reflect your choices, both the main-story ones as well as the repeatable ones. (ideally there should be at least 3 ways they play out based on the amount of Lust vs. the current maximum, but this is just me daydreaming). Up to you and your genitals.

Yeah, depending on how you played you will miss out on earlier prude/slut outcomes but that's what savegames are for. The important thing is, such a system is better than something that is linear and based on triggers from earlier in the story. I know I'm picky when it comes to corruption progression, it is after all a very personal and psychological kink.

 

[Marcibx]

We're pro-multiple playtroughs too, but this also highly depends on the impact choices have in a given game and on how enjoyable your story will be if played only once.

If it's a typical VN paradigm with a few choices that set you on a certain route, it's pretty natural to read all the routes to get the full story. But if it's more like a western RPG with a ton of "dialogue options" and other small choices with local and/or cosmetic impact, people are less likely to go for a "100% completion".
We know there are people who advocate one playthrough approach in all kinds of games. That's why most modern AAA games are theme parks, where you can get all the rewards "On a single save".

It's an interesting topic and requires careful consideration.

And hey, good luck with your game!

I am one of those who only play a game once - there are so many amazing games, why would somebody keep replaying one? - but boy did the results surprise me. There are actually more who prefer replaying games? Crazy.
One thing though: I am pretty sure that you/they mostly talk about the games they enjoyed so much on the first try, which would be different for somebody who selects a different decision and misses the scenes that "hook" you in for the replay.