Gay's limits in games

[おい！]

But it depends on person, right? So there is a possibility of lesbian doing it? It's not a taboo?

Yes, there is the same chance as you doing it.

 

[moudy]

Just to add in a bit about what Avaron1974 said above.

Me and a gay friend of mine once talked this over a few years back (we were 17 at the time) and while talking and trying to figure out how to explain it in terms both could understand, we realized that what he sees in almost all women, are something similar to what young males (teenagers, early 20's) find in older (60+) women (and also vise versa for girls). Some might like it, most don't. Some might enjoy parts of it, most want nothing to do with it.

 

[Higurashika]

It's a hard question if you see it from a straight male perspective, but at least it's good to see you're asking and making your investigation for your game

I see it from straight woman perspective, but I guess it's almost the same

Thanks for your answers. I know it might seem pretty obvious but it's actually not

 

[Rafster]

I see it from straight woman perspective, but I guess it's almost the same

Thanks for your answers. I know it might seem pretty obvious but it's actually not

Ooops, sorry.

Yeah, it's not obvious. But the important part is that you're asking those questions. You know, the dev of the very first gay NSFW I played, COOT, is a woman, and she nailed every sex scene, I thought the game was made by a gay man. So I have no doubts that you can make (or improve if you have an ongoing game with one) a great lesbian MC. Good luck with your game

 

[The Celtic fan]

I'm a lesbian and well I don't want to sound rude, but it's extremely simple, at least for me.

a homosexual person is someone who is attracted exclusively to someone of the same sex, just as a straight person is attracted to someone of the opposite sex, attraction to the 2 is bi.

there will be people who are experimenting, but in those cases they want to find out because they are not sure what their sexuality is, so they still don't know if they are straight bi or homo.

for the question as such, the limit would be 0 men. in a lesbian story there is no place for men, that would be a bi story.

 

[Higurashika]

in a lesbian story there is no place for men, that would be a bi story.

That's obvious. But I was asking because I make a lesbian route, not a game. That's why it's complicated for me. How should I guide the lesbian through a lot of straight engages and don't do big mistakes, that is the question.

 

[Yngling]

That's obvious. But I was asking because I make a lesbian route, not a game. That's why it's complicated for me. How should I guide the lesbian through a lot of straight engages and don't do big mistakes, that is the question.

I suppose the simple answer would be to let the player decide.

What I did notice though is that games which have a lesbian route mostly have a completely different feeling than a pure lesbian game.

Avaron1974 presented the issue from a romantic relationship side, but Malaficus also made a good point: sometimes people (have to) do things they'd rather not. This can be especially relevant in a game setting, perhaps (hopefully) more than IRL. But this you can also leave up to the player to decide: is "reward X" big enough to do "repulsive act Y"? If so, what about "repulsive act Z"? Actual sexuality/desire is less important in such a case.

Finally, "how far is too far" is also a question that depends on every person. In porn / popular culture it is often presented as a logical progression: kissing => handjob => oral sex => vaginal sex => anal sex but in reality quite a number of people don't want to do oral sex at all, do anal sex before vaginal, or find kissing more intimate than sex.

 

[The Celtic fan]

That's obvious. But I was asking because I make a lesbian route, not a game. That's why it's complicated for me. How should I guide the lesbian through a lot of straight engages and don't do big mistakes, that is the question.

Seriously, how we are going to answer this question when we are not interested in men at all. if you were to ask this question in a lesbian forum, you would get nothing but insults.

you do whatever game you want to do, the only answer is to make those things avoidable if you want to make a "lesbian" route. that's why most of us lesbians here are asking all the time if a game can be played purely lesbian.

 

[Higurashika]

when we are not interested in men at all

My question was not about interest, sympathy or feelings. It was about practical aspect: would a lesbian agree to participate in contest where she must perform a handjob? Is it possible or lesbian ideology will get in her way? Can she get fun from it or not? I dunno, let's imagine that she meets with friends, they go out and end up in some situation, when she may perform something like that. And I'd like to understand if lesbian player will certainly skip such content or not.

 

[The Celtic fan]

My question was not about interest, sympathy or feelings. It was about practical aspect: would a lesbian agree to participate in contest where she must perform a handjob? Is it possible or lesbian ideology will get in her way? Can she get fun from it or not? I dunno, let's imagine that she meets with friends, they go out and end up in some situation, when she may perform something like that. And I'd like to understand if lesbian player will certainly skip such content or not.

I see from this and other conversations of yours that you believe that there are no women who are not interested in men.

but well first of all lesbian is mainly a sexuality, is a homosexual woman, so we are only interested sexually and romantically by other women, so unless we are forced (in that case it would be rape) we would never do something like that, as well as straight men would not do it, it is simple we are only interested in women.

and the last question shows that you haven't done much research, we have a thread here complaining about the state of the lesbian and gay tag created by a lesbian, every time there are the tags as "female protagonist" and "lesbian" there are almost always some lesbians asking if all the content with men can be avoided, so yes the vast majority of us will avoid all that kind of content.

 

[joplum]

Hi, folks. Suddenly I realized that I don't understand gay people's limits and the perception of the opposite sex. For example, what are limits for lesbian: can she give handjob? Blowjob? Is her red line a romance and kissing but she doesn't mind just sex (at least in threesome)? Or she will never touch cock?

I mean, what gay people dislike in opposite sex? Is it only about emotions or genitals and bodies too? I'd like to understand details to make lesbian MC in my games more real.

As a bisexual woman who "interacted" with lesbian women, maybe I can provide my perspective. As others have mentioned, it's mostly about what you are attracted to, so similar to how a straight guy would approach another guy - just not attracted. It doesn't have to come with cock-repulsion

I would argue it's mostly neutral, unless there is some sudden context that makes things uncomfortable. Actually, most lesbian women find males to be curious and sometimes worth exploring. Some even try to emulate parts of male behavior, mostly if they are the dominant part of the relationship. But not every lesbian couple has a dominant side present.

So, when it comes to feelings and perception of the opposite sex: it's the same as every other relationship anyone has, just there is a lack of attraction. I think for writing, assuming you are straight (hence the question) it's the same as asking yourself if and how you would be willing to interact with a woman you are not attracted to.

 

[Avaron1974]

The topic seems to have jumbled in with talking about degrees and bisexuals etc so i'll just chime in from my own personal perspective as a lesbian.

I am what some refer to as a pure lesbian. I have never been with a man, I could never be with a man. I am not attracted to them at all and the idea of a penis is kinda off putting.

Now, for clarity, i'm not one of those man hating 3rd wave feminist lunatics. I don't hate half the worlds population purely because they are men. All i'm referring to is my sexuality not my view on politics or the world itself. Who I fuck has nothing to do with that.

I've only ever slept with women because that's all that appeals to me sexually and romantically.

While there is no major taboo about a lesbian sucking a cock the same way a straight man sucking a cock does that is for 2 reasons. One, because lesbianism is also seen as a fetish and men see it as a challenge so the taboo isn't there. 2 because some lesbians don't come out as soon as they know, some are confused at a young age and a variety of other reasons but some lesbians do start out dating men before they work out who they are and who it is they are truly attracted to.

That doesn't mean we want to do it.

While there are lesbians that experiment there are far more on the pure lesbian side that won't.

When it comes to games and lesbian route we expect just that, a lesbian route. That means absolutely no penis at all. Lesbian routes that have straight content aren't lesbian routes and are no use to us. That kills the vibe and turns us off. I have no problem playing straight games but if i'm playing a lesbian route then i'm self inserting and I absolutely do not want to see any cock near my character.

 

[Higurashika]

you believe that there are no women who are not interested in men.

No. I said only that I find it hard to believe that a woman can be disgusted by male genitals if she has no mental trauma. That's quite different things.

are the tags as "female protagonist" and "lesbian"

I'm afraid tag "lesbian" means lesbian sex and nothing more, nothing beyond sexual act itself. So it's a big problem for lesbians and gays, I agree. But... let's be honest, gay people it's only 2-3% of human population, so this tag is mostly for straight people.

so yes the vast majority of us will avoid all that kind of content.

That's what I'm talking about. As a straight person I don't avoid gay content until I don't like situation or character. But what you are talking: I fundamentally don't want to see this content. A very religious approach. That's what confuses me and that's what I'm trying to understand.

 

[joplum]

When it comes to games and lesbian route we expect just that, a lesbian route. That means absolutely no penis at all. Lesbian routes that have straight content aren't lesbian routes and are no use to us. That kills the vibe and turns us off. I have no problem playing straight games but if i'm playing a lesbian route then i'm self inserting and I absolutely do not want to see any cock near my character.

I think that's totally fair. Getting a sudden penis in what is set up as a lesbian scene is just betraying expectations. I think this applies regardless of sexual orientation. It's the same as surprise NTR imo. Just set expectations correctly and follow through.

 

[Higurashika]

Lesbian routes that have straight content aren't lesbian routes and are no use to us.

Hmm... seems like you see it like a sip of water in the desert. So you don't want to taste a sand. The more read your thoughts the better I understand this position.

 

[Avaron1974]

I think that's totally fair. Getting a sudden penis in what is set up as a lesbian scene is just betraying expectations. I think this applies regardless of sexual orientation. It's the same as surprise NTR imo. Just set expectations correctly and follow through.

Pretty much this.

To elaborate further we don't expect devs to make full on lesbian games if that's not their original goal. All we expect is if a full lesbian route is offered then keep it lesbian, that's it.

I'll use a couple of games as examples.

Bad Memories gives the player the choice of male or female protag. The male protag is straight while the female protag is pure lesbian.

It's the same story with the same characters just changes who the protag is.

Same applies to Mythos, male or female protag with straight or lesbian routes following that.

Then you have games like Heavy Five where you pick male or female protag but it has both male and female love interests so the female protag can either play it lesbian or straight.

Toro 7 has a similar thing. Choice of protag at start with each protag having their own love interests. Choices are straight female, lesbian female and male (straight as far as I know). There are 9 love interests with each protag having 3 choices.

All routes are kept seperate.

 

[Higurashika]

Alright, +/- I understand about men. What about tgirls? The same category as men?

 

[The Celtic fan]

No. I said only that I find it hard to believe that a woman can be disgusted by male genitals if she has no mental trauma. That's quite different things.

you don't have to be disgusted to not want anything with them, again we are only attracted to women in a sexual way.

I said it mostly because you understand that a man does not want to do anything with another man, but you do not understand why a woman does not, when with men it would be the same, if they don't have traumas why wouldn't they do it.

I'm afraid tag "lesbian" means lesbian sex and nothing more, nothing beyond sexual act itself. So it's a big problem for lesbians and gays, I agree. But... let's be honest, gay people it's only 2-3% of human population, so this tag is mostly for straight people.

that was just an example to show you that many of us try to avoid all content with men (enough to make a thread asking for new tags), I was not arguing the tag.

That's what I'm talking about. As a straight person I don't avoid gay content until I don't like situation or character. But what you are talking: I fundamentally don't want to see this content. A very religious approach. That's what confuses me and that's what I'm trying to understand.

It all depends on the person, a person who plays this kind of game to read an erotic story, probably won't care much about it.

but there are many of us who just want to see the kind of sexual content we like, that's why you see a lot of people complaining about forced ntr, or forced gay scenes, I've seen lately in harem games a lot of people complaining when lesbian scenes are forced,

The same is for us, when we want to play a lesbian route, we want it to be lesbian, that's our expectation.

Alright, +/- I understand about men. What about tgirls? The same category as men?

that's up to the individual, and without getting into politics or anything else, there's a reason why trans have their own separate tag.

but to give an example, there are some games where the trans content is enough to make some lesbians not like it, if not look at the thread of the game yuri university , a trans character in the game caused a bit of controversy among some of us, but making it totally optional was enough to calm things down.

there are threads where they collect lesbian games, games that have forced trans content do not qualify to be there.

so the best thing to do is basically the same as men is to make their content optional.

 

[Yngling]

@ The resident lesbians in this thread, how do you feel about this statement?

What I did notice though is that games which have a lesbian route mostly have a completely different feeling than a pure lesbian game.

 

[Meaning Less]

No. I said only that I find it hard to believe that a woman can be disgusted by male genitals if she has no mental trauma. That's quite different things.

Well, it is not uncommon to see a subset of males claiming to be "disgusted" by male genitals as well, this shows up a lot in futa content, and to me that is even weirder because unlike lesbians they have a dick themselves, do they hate their own genitals?

I don't think this is mental trauma necessarily, but it probably is related to a "dick"phobia usually transphobia, homophobia, androphobia or similar.

That's why it is actually pretty similar to straight guys, because this same division of tastes and phobias show up with lesbians as well.

Alright, +/- I understand about men. What about tgirls? The same category as men?

Like I mentioned in my first post, reverse the scenario and just imagine a trans man if you are a straight woman, and how you feel about it.