Unity Golden Palace G9 graft bone weights are lost after export from Daz to Unity?

[DayDreamDream]

Well, I don't have too much left before I'm finished - So I'll stick with Unity, but eventually might make my way to unreal.
I was hoping to release on web / mobile as well, so unity it has to be for now + I'm a professional industrial unity dev in my day job.

Daz to cc-> URP


I've written a daz like character editor in unity. it does work, but it would've be nicer to have had the unreal tools. i'll just have to put up with janky arm bends

 

[wittyminx]

And just now I was checking G8, thinking of downgrading to G8... and.... it seems, that even the single pJCMThighSide_85_L still looks different after export to Unity.

I got interested why that is so (since it would be a massive undertaking for me to move the game to Unreal, it's already 100k lines of C# code... At least I need to fully understand why this whole path with JCMs in Unity is a dead end)...

So:
when exporting a GF8 figure to Unity, ticking the checkbox "Lock bone translations for morphs" has no influence on the outcome of how the pelvis/thigh area of the mesh ends up. Because, well, obviously, it's G8F with fixed proportions of the bones, and the thigh join is rotating, and no joints are moving in the pelvis region.
Then I look into pJCMThighSide_85_L settings. Its controllers are:
1) ERC [DeltaAdd] Left Thigh Bend Side-Side
2) ERC [Multiply] GF8 Base Join Correctives
Exporting "Base Joint Correctives" in the list of morphs to Unity is technically allowed (you can add it to the list of exported morphs) yet it doesn't appear as a blend shape in Unity. I guess, that's because those correctives are not some "mesh copy" that would correspond to a blend shape.
Actually, you can disable Base Join Correctives on a Daz figure (it's an on/off button). Yet, even if they are disabled, the figure still looks differently in Daz in Unity. And it's worse in Unity.

The JCMfix addon promptly states in its store description: Genesis figures can not work in Unity exactly as they do in Daz Studio because of the way in which Unity calculates weight maps and bone rotations. JcmFix will automatically fix bone rotations by adding an extra bone where needed and thus mitigate to an extent weight mapping problem.

So, the conclusion is: in G8 this add-on's author made it work, kinda. It's an approximation that's sort of "good enough". The story with GP there was to at least make the GP work good enough with the weight map on it.

Now, we come to G9, and it gets so complicated that I guess that the add-on's author lightBLUE wouldn't even attempt to update his add-on. That's why the addon still has its latest update in 2021 (3 years ago). Because now in G9 we have several morphs that always modify proportions of the figure (BaseFeminine, ProportionSmaller and ProportionSmallerBO), and you actually can apply many more, like TorsoLength, LegsLegth (which I did btw)... All of this multiplies with JCMs for the thighs. And Golden Palace had to be a good player in this new system and had to abandon weight maps and instead add JCMs of its own.

What happens with Unity export: I played around a lot trying to get BaseFemininity and BodyProportions work! Actually, initially I was bold enough to even try to use Animancer's animation blending to make animations work for ANY G9 figure with a custom degree of femininity or proportions smaller/larger. That failed completely. Because, with bone lengths changing, blend shapes get added on top of the bone moves, and the figure just explodes or gets deformed wildly. The most complicated area was the face. But GP, too, was never friendly with the proportions and would just end up sticking out or pushed inside. So, I swore to never export any proportion-changing morphs. Instead, apply them in Daz and export the figure as a given, with those proportions. I ended up exporting just 2 fixed sets of proportions: one for feminine figures, one for masculine. Essentially replicating how G8F and G8M worked. And this worked as long as I ignored JCMs. But if I want the figures to look nice with JCMs (plus, make sure that GP correctly follows the pose), I'm forced to work with those proportion-changing morphs. And they can't be exported to Unity properly (or at least, I failed to figure out how to make them work).

This is where it ends for G9. At least how I understand it. Maybe there is a solution here. After all, for G8 lightBLUE guy guessed to just introduce new bones (tbh I'm not sure that would work fine with animations, I haven't tried as I was generally resisting the idea of downgrading to G8 figures). I dunno what one has to invent to marry Unity with the concept of proportion-changing morphs being used as a multiplier everywhere.

So, looking at this from the business perspective, it's easier to spend 2-3 months learning Unreal and then porting to it rather than venturing into this (as I feel) research-level stuff with JCMs and proportion multipliers in Unity. Maybe you can do it. And earn from that by publishing an add-on on Unity Asset Store. I'm not up to that task for sure And given the consensus that "Unreal is better anyway", I wouldn't hold my breath for a solution to appear soon. So, I should just follow the consensus. The mistake here was in trying to "save time" and using Unity just because I had worked with it for years before. After all, I played many 3D porn games, and almost all of them were made in Unreal, not Unity. Now I see why.

 

[caLTD]

JCMS are fully supported. In ureal,skeleton has animation blueprint.If you want that character PC or NPC you just point its animation blueprint. Then when a animation frame was appiled,animation bp was handle the all JCM.


To be honest, if the DazToHou workflow developer hadn't come along, the transfer from Daz to Unreal wouldn't have been this successful.

Although the original DazToUnreal developer David started much earlier and continued after Daz acquired it, he hasn't reached a clear conclusion. Since Daz does separate work for each version and each Genesis model, the transition from Daz to Game Engine is nearly impossible. So another element is needed.


The good daz characters you see in successful unreal games are the solutions of the developers of those games.

All Daz to Game Engine porters currently on the market have one problem or another and do not provide a complete solution.

But DazToHue is not like that. This developer is looking for perfection and can come up with very different solutions.


View attachment Ctrl_Face_board.webp


Since I don't have a working game yet, I have screenshots of bug reports.

This screenshot is from 2 months ago and the bug I complained about was the face rig controls being stuck up.

It has full control rig (after this verison, the gens are had full control rigs too) and it has unreal video series to create blueprint for character generator.

You must be registered to see the links

If you tell me about your game, I may suggest a certain Unreal Engine assets for the quick start.

My Best Regards (ps images are webp format for sizes and it seems forum software does not supoort it)

 

[caLTD]

This was my old setup.



That character has panties (I hide it to show you actual gens material). What you did not see is that pink dress has chaos cloth. This screenshot come from sequencer (Ureal animation tool).

So ? when gameplaying it wraps the body of the characer and act like real skirt.

 

[wittyminx]

If you tell me about your game, I may suggest a certain Unreal Engine assets for the quick start.

You can check my Discord. It's a prototype-like thing with mostly stubs.

Thanks for the explanations. Yep, I guess my feeling that it's "research-level stuff" was right. Those few engineers are working on the technological forefront inventing solutions. It's not something a small indie dev can do casually just as part of development of some game that also has 100 other things. A couple months one would have to spend to switch between engines are nothing compared to the years those guys would spend to get a full commercial solution for a specific issue.

Btw your screenshot looks very realistic! Those knees must be JCMs

 

[caLTD]

You can check my Discord

You must be registered to see the links

. It's a prototype-like thing with mostly stubs.

Thanks for the explanations. Yep, I guess my feeling that it's "research-level stuff" was right. Those few engineers are working on the technological forefront inventing solutions. It's not something a small indie dev can do casually just as part of development of some game that has 100 other things. A couple months one would have to spend to switch between engines are nothing compared to the years those guys would spend to get a full commercial solution for a specific issue.

Btw your screenshot looks very realistic! Those knees must be JCMs

Jcms are default by day one.It was embedded in workflow and taking care by animation blueprint.

Textures come from daz, base material come from DazToHue. You have to create your own mater for your character from instancing base material.

About your game.

If I understood correctly you do not have a GAME. simple UI and animation trigger IU

You must be registered to see the links

this project was free. It has lots of ui and in game popup examples which teachs you how to create ui in unreal.

You must be registered to see the links

this was also free, you can use for your outdoor scenes.

You must be registered to see the links

Another free project for stat handling.

Following are not free but it will help you to accelerate your game development.

You must be registered to see the links

This actually a Real Estate virtual tour ui.

It has lots of enviromental controls and ready to run Home for your game. Plus it has lot of ui examples AND time control for Nanite Lights.So you dont worry to how to light your game let say early in the morning or midnight.

You must be registered to see the links

this was 3rd person point to click adventure teplate. It teachs you to click characters and do things.


What I did not find is your connected buble UI. If english your native language, don't worry unreal has lots of documentation.

What lack of unreal is, helpful older generation Unreal Developers. Everyone seems too busy and no one give damn about your noob questions. Even before the asking the question you have to know about your sh*t.

Good luck

 

[mrpdean]

Hello,

Creator of DazToHue here and first time posting on this forum.

Fun fact: I had originally intended for DTH to be game engine agnostic and I suppose many of the features on the Houdini side of the workflow might already be useful for Unity users.

In October 2023 I posted to the Daz Unity Discussion forum looking for anyone who might be interested in assisting me with testing and improving it for Unity users as I have very little experience with Unity myself. Needless to say I go zero replies and looking back, I probably didn't word the post very well.

There are many questions I didn't have the answers to when it came to Unity, for example:

• Is there a standard skeleton hierarchy that most Daz > Unity users require, similar to the UE5 mannequin skeleton but for Unity?
  
  
• Is there an easy way to drive JCMs in unity like there is in UE and if so, what would DTH need to export in order to use those?
  
  
• Does Unity have a standard realistic eye shader and if so, what are the requirements for things like uvs and topology in order to use it?
  
  
• Etc etc

Anyway, long story short; I'm reasonably confident that I could get DTH to output most if not all that might be required to get Daz figures working as well in Unity as they can in Unreal with DTH.. but I'd need to collaborate with someone who has some expertise in getting Daz characters into Unity.

If anyone would be interested in assisting me with making DTH useful for Unity users, please let me know.

You would need to source your own copy of Houdini but I'd be happy to gift you a copy of DTH in return for your expertise and assistance and so you could test out any features etc.

Thanks

 

[wittyminx]

I'd need to collaborate with someone who has some expertise in getting Daz characters into Unity.

Thanks for you offer but... after looking into Unreal tutorials, I'm amazed by how much more advanced Unreal is with 3D. So I'm not coming back to Unity for 3D And actually I'm just not experienced. I stumbled around for maybe 2 months, with mixed results. I documented pretty much all of my findings here, mostly to have a reference for myself later (which I now have little use of).

With Unity, I now have the impression that their main audience is mobile studios and indies making 2D games. Unity is still far better than Godot IMO. To me, the main surprising reason was that Unity allows pausing a running game and selecting GameObjects to see them in the Scene view. Godot misses that, and it turned out a nightmare to debug UI issues.

Thanks for your DazToHue project! Maybe someone in a different position could assist you with the intended port. Oh and I'm just lucky that this this post eventually got some attention. I posted the same question on Daz forum and Renderotica, with no replies.

 

[mrpdean]

So I'm not coming back to Unity for 3D

No problem. I can understand that decision after all the dramas with Unity in recent years. Meanwhile Unreal has been upping their game in so many different areas

 

[DragonDev]

Hello,

There are many questions I didn't have the answers to when it came to Unity, for example:

• Is there a standard skeleton hierarchy that most Daz > Unity users require, similar to the UE5 mannequin skeleton but for Unity?
  
  
• Is there an easy way to drive JCMs in unity like there is in UE and if so, what would DTH need to export in order to use those?
  
  
• Does Unity have a standard realistic eye shader and if so, what are the requirements for things like uvs and topology in order to use it?
  
  
• Etc etc

Thanks

Hello,
I can answer a few questions in general, Though not really a pro.

1. Yes Unity has a Humanoid Skeleton, where one can import thier own Characters into unity, Convert the character into humanoid and use animations from the UnityAssetStore.
2. Yes (via script) , but usually from what I have seen people use an external plugin that does the job from the store.
3. I'm a lacking in my knowledge of shaders but , Unity does have its own set of various shaders, also shaders can be built via external plugins.

I have manged to get Daz Characters into unity but not directly, it has always been through blender and making necessary edits.

Hope this helps a bit,
KDragon.

 

[mrpdean]

Hello,
I can answer a few questions in general, Though not really a pro.

1. Yes Unity has a Humanoid Skeleton, where one can import thier own Characters into unity, Convert the character into humanoid and use animations from the UnityAssetStore.
2. Yes (via script) , but usually from what I have seen people use an external plugin that does the job from the store.
3. I'm a lacking in my knowledge of shaders but , Unity does have its own set of various shaders, also shaders can be built via external plugins.

I have manged to get Daz Characters into unity but not directly, it has always been through blender and making necessary edits.

Hope this helps a bit,
KDragon.

Thanks for that info. Most appreciated.

 

[DayDreamDream]

Hello,

Creator of DazToHue here and first time posting on this forum.

Fun fact: I had originally intended for DTH to be game engine agnostic and I suppose many of the features on the Houdini side of the workflow might already be useful for Unity users.

In October 2023 I posted to the Daz Unity Discussion forum looking for anyone who might be interested in assisting me with testing and improving it for Unity users as I have very little experience with Unity myself. Needless to say I go zero replies and looking back, I probably didn't word the post very well.

There are many questions I didn't have the answers to when it came to Unity, for example:

• Is there a standard skeleton hierarchy that most Daz > Unity users require, similar to the UE5 mannequin skeleton but for Unity?
  
  
• Is there an easy way to drive JCMs in unity like there is in UE and if so, what would DTH need to export in order to use those?
  
  
• Does Unity have a standard realistic eye shader and if so, what are the requirements for things like uvs and topology in order to use it?
  
  
• Etc etc

Anyway, long story short; I'm reasonably confident that I could get DTH to output most if not all that might be required to get Daz figures working as well in Unity as they can in Unreal with DTH.. but I'd need to collaborate with someone who has some expertise in getting Daz characters into Unity.

If anyone would be interested in assisting me with making DTH useful for Unity users, please let me know.

You would need to source your own copy of Houdini but I'd be happy to gift you a copy of DTH in return for your expertise and assistance and so you could test out any features etc.

Thanks

I am certainly interested - I'm more of a programmer though. Let me know how I can help!