H Game Design Theory (sexual content design)

[TentacleVillain]

Hey there

I've played a bunch of H games now and I wanted to share my two cents on the design theory of the content in the games (not the tags/genre). There are some games that have a core focus on the sexual action. Often platformer games. Then there are some games that use the sexual content as the reward for completing tasks/ playing the parts of the game that don't have sexual content. Sometimes this is okay, but sometimes this is overdone and the rewards aren't that great/ are scarce. Then there are games that barely have any content at all; the content is unlocked by doing lots of unrelated things and the game could easily have the ero content cut out and still be the same game in essence.

I've come to realize that sexual content is not the goal for many developers. A lot of these games are made for other purposes and happen to have adult/mature themes, giving the devs no choice but to make them AO. That's fine, I'm not focusing on those games.

What I do want to address are games that seem to have sexual content as the core focus of the game yet most of the game has no sexual content. I see this mostly with those rpg maker game with tons of grinding. They use actual battles as if it were a regular old school rpg but there is no sexual content woven into the battles... you don't even unlock a scene or have a scene/animation/picture displayed from winning! Sometimes not even from losing. I mean... that's bad design! What's the point of making an ero focused game with normal regular turn based battles?

From a design standpoint, it would make more sense if the battles actively included sexual content or directly rewarded you with sexual content (instead of only sometimes conditioning you to lose or maybe conditioning you to resist your sexual urges by making you lose progress while showing sexual content). I understand there are some games where the point is to "earn" the content and sort of teaches you patience with or without meaning too but from a design standpoint this really isn't a solid design. Sex games should focus on the sex!

Anyway, that's my two cents. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Also, making people use both hands while playing... that's just cruel.

 

[Volta]

I agree, in a lot of cases RPGM games shouldn't even be in RPGM, if you're not using the battle system then don't bother, use ren'py or twine ect.

As for non-sex battles in RPGM, fair enough if the theme of the game is a more romantic party/harem game and the sex is a non battle element, but you've got to decide is it an RPG that happens to have adult content, like the witcher or is it an ero game with RPG content, say monster girl dreams. If the dev doesn't get their priorities right from the beginning then it's not going to be a great game.

IMO if there is going to be a lot of grindy RPG fights either make them optional perhaps, make them genuinely fun, or put the sex content in there, it's part of what sells the lust grim series is good BFRPG(battle fuck RPG) content, not enough of this around IMO.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Adult game design, imo, has three design elements--story/plot(which includes narration, character dialogue etc), visual elements and gameplay elements. The three elements should complement/supplement each other. Gameplay that doesn't have much to do with advancing the story or using the visual elements effectively is arguably bad gameplay. Sometimes devs throw in some rock-paper-scissors, sorting game or other minigame for the MC to make money, or some minor thing like a climbing game or stealth minigame to help the MC accomplish a plot-related task. To the extent these are minor diversions, it may even add to the enjoyment of the game. To the extent the games are unnecessarily difficult/frustrating and lead to players quitting, then it takes away from the game.

 

[Madlust]

Well I think it depends on what kind of adult game you want to play. Like you said before some are just rewards for play mini games, or platformers...so it depends of the type of game to design what sexual content it´ll has. I don't want to play a game that consists only of sex scenes one after another, because there are better things for that than a game. A game, it´s a game. For example in a VN game, (Adult of course) you have to play to advance into the plot, but I get you, some adult games, do not have a real plot, or it´s just bad, they are just a grind festival to get sex scenes. Other games put hot things too early with no effort to get them. I think the main key here is balance and being like water. It has to be a natural consequence of something that happened recently. Not to forced sex scenes in the middle of a supermarket because you don't have money to pay like in a porn movie. A game can never be liked by everyone, for that reason it's designed to specific tastes.

 

[DbatRT]

This is a typical problem for developers. I don't believe that developers are such idiots, I think they see these shortcomings, but they are afraid to do something different, we always focus on others.

They are afraid to do things differently than others, to eliminate inconvenient moments, to do what is convenient for the player, because this is a risk, because of this the game may fail.

Therefore, developers are trying their best to show activity in their world (RPGM), forcing you to run around locations, and keeping you in the game as long as possible, because when you spend a lot of time, it's harder for you to give up, because you feel sorry for the time and money spent, so sandboxes are created that waste time while you search for a scene trying to fulfill a condition or perform stupid quests (RPGM), because developers are afraid to point out that their game has a duration of one hour, not four or six.

You have a choice, do as everyone else and get a guaranteed result (because others earn with this approach) or be progressive, remove unnecessary battles, remove sandboxes, reduce the passage time, enter cutscenes, guide the player and at the same time get a possible negative reaction and fail.

As long as you're just thinking, it's easy, and when there's money at stake, the choice doesn't seem so obvious.

 

[TentacleVillain]

I don't want to play a game that consists only of sex scenes one after another, because there are better things for that than a game. A game, it´s a game.

It's not any regular game, though. Specifically, these are adult games. While having the game essentially ONLY be sex scenes may be over the top, having gameplay that plays like a normal rpg doesn't make any sense either.

You have a choice, do as everyone else and get a guaranteed result (because others earn with this approach) or be progressive, remove unnecessary battles, remove sandboxes, reduce the passage time, enter cutscenes, guide the player and at the same time get a possible negative reaction and fail.

I agree. However if the battles were made to not be unnecessary then they would not have to remove them. It comes down to having a strong design at the core of the game. A short game with lots of effective and fulfilling elements can be replayed for more time than a longer game with spongy elements meant to fluff the game out.

Another problem is sometimes there is a certain quality of the animations/ of the pornography in h games that you just can't get from watching hentai/ cg animation. Animation creators often make different styles of content altogether with different effects/themes etc. For example, having a more interactive interface can help you get more into the flow than with just loading a video.

 

[desmosome]

Hey, you can be thoughtful when you are not complaining about the lack of hand holding fetishes.

Jokes aside, the nature of the game system should take the setting into consideration. As you say, so many developers apply the wrong system for the type of story and setting of the game.

If we have a contemporary setting where the plot is the basic incest cliche, do we really need the whole free roaming crap? There is almost nothing to be gained by making a very limited sandbox that does nothing but waste time. Who really finds it enjoyable to click on hidden objects and go to the store to buy a camera so you can do some photoshoot grinds for the sister? If the world is properly filled out, with extreme care put into it to allow freedom while still maintaining a coherent narrative between the characters as the situation changes, the sandbox could be worthwhile. This is almost never the case though.

Lets look at some other settings though. If we have a medieval fantasy setting with a hero's journey storyline, a free roamer could make sense. There could naturally be character building, battles, places to explore, loot to find, etc. You might say this isn't a porn game then, but that's not necessarily true. They just need to incorporate the porn tastefully into the plot.

If we move away from the slice of life contemporary romance stuff, many different gameplay systems become viable. Look at Venus Blood Frontier. This is the absolute highest tier game when it comes to striking the perfect balance between gameplay and porn. There are many other games that fit the bill too, where the gameplay never feels like a time waster and is legitimately fun to play.

RPGM games with combat are also fine to play if they actually provide put some thought into the game balance and mechanics. Look at The Last Sovereign. This game has no re spawning monsters and the game balance is incredibly tight, with great loot/skill progression and team synergies. It's really fun for a game that uses pretty much the basic RPGM battle engine. I agree that most of the cookie cutter female protagonist corruption games have some stupid combat that is neither challenging or engaging. Now the stupidest game for me was one of the earlier ICSTOR RPGM games lol. I played one where it's like your basic contemporary setting with the standard incest cliches, but when you go outside, you gotta fight fucking bandits and thugs and shit. LOL.

 

[TentacleVillain]

The thing is, for a porn game to have a basic fantasy style game design, it's not really a porn game but a fantasy game with some porn. It's more like an extra lewd God of War at that point. To sharpen the design aspect of the game, as an actual porn game and not as an adult or AO game with very mature themes, it wouldn't be so difficult to make the pornography the core of the gameplay. That would make it more of a porn game and less of a very mature AO fantasy game with some spicy storyline.

I haven't played those games you've mentioned so I can't comment on their design. I'll give them a try so that I can have perspective on those designs.

One thing I'd like to point out is that I and many others look into porn games specifically for the porn, as a new and fun medium for porn. It's not really about the game itself. A lot of people aren't looking for fun "games" to play, they're looking for fun ways to experience/get porn. So even if a developer makes a porn game with fantastic gameplay, if it's lacking in the porn department and or doesn't have enough pornographic content it just simply won't matter. If people wanted to play games that simply had amazing gameplay... they would just play games, not porn games.

I don't mean to be so impersonal with devs' personal projects and time but to be more realistic... many consumers, they really just don't give a fuck. It's like when someone gets into tabletop gaming and they find out that DM's have so many problems with the players because they try to make these elaborate plots and then the party of lawful good character controlled by chaotic evil players wants to murder EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE for no reason or something. Having that realistic viewpoint matters... I'm not trying to be mean or anything but to put it bluntly, a lot of the players just don't give a shit and they just want porn in interesting ways. Even in the normal gaming world, player communities are often pretty mean spirited in their critiques and get upset over weird things and ignore some of the most interesting stuff for more of the gameplay loops.

I mean these people are playing games where bees and zombies rape high schoolers... they really just don't give a fuck what package their porn games come in, they just want more content

 

[desmosome]

It's like when someone gets into tabletop gaming and they find out that DM's have so many problems with the players because they try to make these elaborate plots and then the party of lawful good character controlled by chaotic evil players wants to murder EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE for no reason or something.

lol that gave me a chuckle. As for your point, I know what you mean, and I've seen this sentiment very often on these forums. Heck, I myself, was like that for the first couple years after finding this site. It's only recently where my interests have broadened. The novelty of porn games wore off. Even great stories, by themselves, were losing their appeal a bit. I found myself spending more time playing actual games and rubbing one out on hentai or porn videos. That's when I thought, what if... these porn games were actually fun to play?

Up to that point, I have not really explored these options too much. The Last Sovereign was probably the only one I played during those first 2 years that had gameplay that pulls its own weight. I searched around and found a number is legitimately fun games. The ones I mentioned above, things like Droid's Love of Magic, Big Bang Age, even Corruption of Champions II, and a handful of others. Granted, many of them indeed are more of the adult game with porn side rather than straight up fap games, but I think you overestimate how much people actually want just a fap game. I feel like people who want a deep story and such are actually in the majority. People who want legit fun gameplay certainly are not as numerous, but mostly because the gameplay in our adult games tend to be shit.

It's not often that a porn game will offer gameplay that rivals top contenders in normal gaming, but I personally found Venus Blood Frontier more fun to play than many strategy games on the market. And while I personally couldn't fap to any of the gameplay porn games I mentioned in the above paragraph (too vanilla/no art), Venus Blood Frontier got me to nut like 10 times throughout my playthroughs (mainly due to hardcore corruption).

So basically I'm saying that having a gameplay system is not a waste of time if it's legit fun, serves a purpose, and fits the setting and plot. I would prefer to have great battle and character building systems for my Hero's party, rather than just some text based sequences. If it's tedious and boring...? Then yea, text based would be preferred lol.

So I don't find it that gameplay is a waste of time on a game design perspective. Rather, making actually fun gameplay that compliments the whole experience is rather difficult. Perhaps the most difficult in making a game. That's why we don't see many examples of good gameplay porn games and that most people find it a waste of time.

edit: Since I know you like vanilla stuff, you probably shouldn't try all the games I mentioned haha. Venus Blood Frontier has a lawful path, but each heroine does have to get unavoidably raped by MC's tentacle magic initially. Big Bang Age is very vanilla and cute. Love of Magic should be alright for you too, although these belong in the adult games with some porn category. CoC2 is furry madness, so that may not be your thing lol. It is also a text based game with minimum art. Well, you may not enjoy any of them yet, if you indeed feel like adult games with some porn are fundamentally flawed.

 

[lolzorzs]

Heh finally a dicussion thread, but it's 4 years old. Guess I'll recycle this thread instead of making a new one.
Lots of generalistic discussion in here talking about the problems of a lack of game designers/talented game devs VS low-standard community who doesn't care about your impressive technical+artistic achievement.

But I really want to drive the discussion into something a million times more detailed nearing GDD levels. Guess I'll make a separate thread for that otherwise anyone coming in here will just feel inspired to make more general theory comments.

Guess I'll discuss in a general way too;
First of all turn-based combat with static images and copy-pasta text will simply never be capable of creating the genre which is porn just like trying to make a horror game in a RPG. You require a wholly different system such as technical anatomy and automatic visuals that connect together. Which is quite hard to do with 2D and you're left with very ugly 3D models which are also a pain in the ass to animate, not as much of a pain as hand-drawn paper 24FPS animation but still painful.

To get into more philosophical-biological terms;
Most porn games do not attempt to attract the female audience; those reside in text, romance, relationship,customization, sandbox, but not at a technical level to the point they have to become architects and understand programming if they want to schlick it to Twilight.

As such grey matter+testosterone leans more on visual stuff and physical rewards. White matter+estrogen leans more on the passive friendchips emotional stuff. There are of course women and men who have an imbalance of white matter, estrogen, testosterone due to sub-species + genetics and something more which affects their perception to the point men care too much about sneakers, pride, glory, humiliation, "MINE", like a diva woman golddigger who wants it all but without any of the responsibility and commitment.

 

[lolzorzs]

You must be registered to see the links