Harem Character Study: Is it safe to assume most Harem lovers would dislike Holli from the 1992 movie Cool World? (Screenshot)

[hakarlman]

I'd say that's not fully right.

Care to clarify your statements? If not, I'm going to take a crack at it. It sounds like you were in a little rush, so I don't get what you're saying fully.

1) If I like something I usually want to know everything about it, so I don't like games where I know that's not even an option

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I'm going to guess. You want the developer to disclose all the details of the game's past, present and future, the direction the game is going in, so there's no surprises later?

2) Usually it paints the character or forces them to act unfaithfully even outside that route, as in if you do not prevent it that is a part of their character, souring that character for me in general.

Oh, I see. For anyone who doesn't understand what he's trying to say, let me clarify; in no way is this meant as an insult, rather an important clarification a dev needs to know and understand if mixing Harem and NTR.

Okay, imagine you make a game with a love interest named Lisa.

Lisa
A) You can turn her into a whore working at the brothel. [Sharing]
B) You can make her faithful to only you. [No Sharing]

Chalksis is saying that even if you never pick option A, the mere fact that it exists as a route/path, reflects on Lisa's character, meaning she has a passive whore/slut trait in her, even if you make her loyal to only you.

Is there a solution to this? My gut instinct says yes. I imagine it would involve clever writing, and that writing has to be approved by people in DJKunnn's Harem discover server; because they really hate NTR/Sharing in that discord. Then there's technical issues, if you try to mix Harem + NTR, you might end up making two games in one, two different paths, that's not good, you need a methodology. I can't get into this right now, kind of a trade secret, but if you really really really want to know, DM me; especially if you've helped me a lot already, I'll share some slick DAZ rendering methodologies.

Chalksis, tell me what you think of these characters? Maybe you can ask everyone in DJKunn's Harem discord server what they think of these two characters?
- Holli, Cool World (1992)
- Vala Mal Doran - Stargate SG1

 

[Chalker]

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I'm going to guess. You want the developer to disclose all the details of the game's past, present and future, the direction the game is going in, so there's no surprises later?

No, i'm talking about the game itself.

Is there a solution to this? My gut instinct says yes. I imagine it would involve clever writing, and that writing has to be approved by people in DJKunnn's Harem discover server; because they really hate NTR/Sharing in that discord. Then there's technical issues, if you try to mix Harem + NTR, you might end up making two games in one, two different paths, that's not good, you need a methodology. I can't get into this right now, kind of a trade secret, but if you really really really want to know, DM me; especially if you've helped me a lot already, I'll share some slick DAZ rendering methodologies.

Chalksis, tell me what you think of these characters? Maybe you can ask everyone in DJKunn's Harem discord server what they think of these two characters?
- Holli, Cool World (1992)
- Vala Mal Doran - Stargate SG1

Is there a solution to this? No,
and djkunns harem server isn't the only bastion of this thinking, and even then, you are deluded if you think everyone has the same opinion on things in there.

Also, I don't get why you care about these two fucking characters so much, it's dumb, everyone will form their own opinion on them.

 

[Meaning Less]

Is there a solution to this? My gut instinct says yes.

It is a paradox:
If someone needs to know everything before playing, then they are naturally going to find out things they didn't want to know as well even if it is optional.

There is no solution because it isn't a game issue but an issue created by the player.

 

[Chalker]

It is a paradox:
If someone needs to know everything before playing, then they are naturally going to find out things they didn't want to know as well even if it is optional.

There is no solution because it isn't a game issue but an issue created by the player.

It's not about knowing everything before you play it, it's about wanting to learn everything while playing it. When I enjoy something I usually fixate on it and end up trying to learn as much as possible and engaging with the fandom. If it has something I know i'll hate, I already know the game will never be something I can fixate on, so it will never be a 10/10 for me.

dummy.

 

[Meaning Less]

It's not about knowing everything before you play it, it's about wanting to learn everything while playing it. When I enjoy something I usually fixate on it and end up trying to learn as much as possible and engaging with the fandom. If it has something I know i'll hate, I already know the game will never be something I can fixate on, so it will never be a 10/10 for me.

I'm not talking about you necessarily but about the people that complain about "ruined LIs" even when that content is entirely optional and doesn't leak into the romance route.

In your case, if what you say is true, completely optional wouldn't bother you that much I guess.

 

[hakarlman]

Is there a solution to this? No,
and djkunns harem server isn't the only bastion of this thinking, and even then, you are deluded if you think everyone has the same opinion on things in there.

I actually tried searching for a Harem discord server where everyone in it loves Harem and hates NTR/Sharing, but I can't find any. Do you know of any Harem discord servers where everyone loves Harem but hates Sharing & NTR?

Also, I don't get why you care about these two fucking characters so much, it's dumb, everyone will form their own opinion on them.

I could tell you, or if you're bored, you can do a character study on Vala & Holli, probably take you 30-40 minutes. Then if you want, you can find two characters that are the complete opposite of Vala & Holli, girls in movies/shows that you really really like; their personality.

 

[hakarlman]

I'm not talking about you necessarily but about the people that complain about "ruined LIs" even when that content is entirely optional and doesn't leak into the romance route.

In your case, if what you say is true, completely optional wouldn't bother you that much I guess.

Let's try to dissect this.

Lisa (NPC) (Love Interest):
(A) Lisa can be a complete and total whore who gets fucked by everyone.
(B) Lisa can be a sweet and loving wife who is 100% loyal to the MC.

You can easily choose all options that lead to (B), right? But the fact that she can optionally become a complete and total whore could be seen as a passive or latent personality trait or behavior, that's part of her soul. So I guess the solution would be to write her in a way where what causes her to become a complete and total whore is not a reflection of her personality or behavior, but rather an external catalyst outside of her persona; like being heavily influenced by other men, and no matter how much she resists, certain circumstances thrust her into that situation; all consensual of course. This would require good writing and a somewhat decent understanding of psychology?

 

[Chalker]

In your case, if what you say is true, completely optional wouldn't bother you that much I guess.

... I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion? I just said that I wouldn't be able to fully fixate on something if it has content I know will be unpleasant, and not being able to fully immerse myself in something ruins my enjoyment of it.

 

[Chalker]

Do you know of any Harem discord servers where everyone loves Harem but hates Sharing & NTR?

No, I'm usually in servers dedicated to discussing the stuff I like.

 

[Meaning Less]

... I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion? I just said that I wouldn't be able to fully fixate on something if it has content I know will be unpleasant, and not being able to fully immerse myself in something ruins my enjoyment of it.

But how you would know something is unpleasant if it is entirely locked in another route? Unless you spoil yourself or it leaks into the route you are following you shouldn't even notice it.

This would require good writing and a somewhat decent understanding of psychology?

Average writing should be enough, as long as you don't make that character entirely one-dimensional you are safe.

You can make a character behave a certain way and once the player gets to know them they learn whom they really are, that's why things like yandere work, they appear to be something on the outside but are something else inside.

 

[hakarlman]

View attachment 2663267
No, I'm usually in servers dedicated to discussing the stuff I like.

Can you share the discord servers you frequent where stuff like this is discussed?

 

[Chalker]

But how you would know something is unpleasant if it is entirely locked in another route? Unless you spoil yourself or it leaks into the route you are following you shouldn't even notice it.

Yeah but if I like something I'll be compelled to try out every option because then I can know every facet of every character, usually leading me to like them more. Just because Sakura is my favorite character from fate/stay night doesn't mean I only did her route, I played the other two (for the enjoyment of those routes on their own) and it also reinforced some motifs and aspects of Sakura's character allowing me to enjoy them more.
If a game has something I don't like, I know I'll never be able to get the full experience, meaning it will never be a game I fully enjoy.

 

[Chalker]

Can you share the discord servers you frequent where stuff like this is discussed?

No, because all of them are more so focused on monster girls.

 

[Meaning Less]

View attachment 2663287
Yeah but if I like something I'll be compelled to try out every option because then I can know every facet of every character, usually leading me to like them more.

I get where you are coming from, but I don't believe that logic applies to every game.

Some games do in fact expect you to play multiple routes until you unlock a true ending, like your fate example.

But other games use multiple routes simply to create a more tailored experience, like the common romance vs corruption paths, where players can make choices based on what they are comfortable with or is more appealing to them.

 

[Chalker]

I get where you are coming from, but I don't believe that logic applies to every game.

Some games do in fact expect you to play multiple routes until you unlock a true ending, like your fate example.

But other games use multiple routes simply to create a more tailored experience, like the common romance vs corruption paths, where players can make choices based on what they are comfortable with or is more appealing to them.

Yeah but I still don't like the fact that those elements are still another facet of the character, this sours my experience.

 

[Meaning Less]

Yeah but I still don't like the fact that those elements are still another facet of the character, this sours my experience.

Well then you are back at the paradox I mentioned, you can't help but be curious until you burn yourself.

What if they made two separate games, one with the corruption route and the other with the romance route only. Does the existence of the other game would already be enough to sour your experience as well? Even if you can play 100% of the game now?

 

[Chalker]

Well then you are back at the paradox I mentioned, you can't help but be curious until you burn yourself.

What if they made two separate games, one with the corruption route and the other with the romance route only. Does the existence of the other game would already be enough to sour your experience as well? Even if you can play 100% of the game now?

...probably?

 

[anne O'nymous]

...probably?

Don't take it bad, I like the little brat you are (and I'll deny having wrote this), but isn't this going too far on the compulsion side ?

That you want to know everything about the IRL girl you love and want to live with, okay, this is totally natural ; assumed that the feelings are reciprocal, else it's creepy as fuck. A bit excessive from my point of view, but understandable. You'll share your life together, she shouldn't have secrets for you and you shouldn't have for her.

But when it's a fictional character, is it really necessary, especially since it will not strictly be the same character ?
I mean, by definition parallels routes happens in two different universe ; even more when they are in separated games. It's the same character, she will keep the same major traits, but it's a parallel version of this character, a version that act and think differently.
Take a game with an optional sharing route. The girl who say "good that you don't want to share me, because I don't want to be shared" isn't really the same than the girl who say "oh god, I'm so happy, I always dreamed to have sex with as many guy as I want". They both are a different version of the same personality, each one living on a different universe.

It's not just different side of her personality, it's purely different personalities, whatever how small those difference can be. If she wanted to be shared, she would have talked about it, tried to make her man agree to this. And at the opposite, in the other universe if she don't wanted to be shared, she wouldn't do it.
But it's not what happen, right ? The girl in the none sharing universe never address the subject. At no time the desire to be with other men cross her mine. And the girl in the sharing universe isn't reluctant to do it, it's what she always wanted.
So, do you really need to know how is this girl from another universe ? Do you really need to break through the space-time continuum to have a glance at all the possible version of her ?

 

[zilkin]

Take a game with an optional sharing route. The girl who say "good that you don't want to share me, because I don't want to be shared" isn't really the same than the girl who say "oh god, I'm so happy, I always dreamed to have sex with as many guy as I want". They both are a different version of the same personality, each one living on a different universe.

It's not just different side of her personality, it's purely different personalities, whatever how small those difference can be. If she wanted to be shared, she would have talked about it, tried to make her man agree to this. And at the opposite, in the other universe if she don't wanted to be shared, she wouldn't do it.

Maybe all the netorare destroyed me but is it possible she just says "I don't want to be shared" and then goes out and cheats anyway?

 

[Chalker]

Don't take it bad, I like the little brat you are (and I'll deny having wrote this), but isn't this going too far on the compulsion side ?

That you want to know everything about the IRL girl you love and want to live with, okay, this is totally natural ; assumed that the feelings are reciprocal, else it's creepy as fuck. A bit excessive from my point of view, but understandable. You'll share your life together, she shouldn't have secrets for you and you shouldn't have for her.

But when it's a fictional character, is it really necessary, especially since it will not strictly be the same character ?
I mean, by definition parallels routes happens in two different universe ; even more when they are in separated games. It's the same character, she will keep the same major traits, but it's a parallel version of this character, a version that act and think differently.
Take a game with an optional sharing route. The girl who say "good that you don't want to share me, because I don't want to be shared" isn't really the same than the girl who say "oh god, I'm so happy, I always dreamed to have sex with as many guy as I want". They both are a different version of the same personality, each one living on a different universe.

It's not just different side of her personality, it's purely different personalities, whatever how small those difference can be. If she wanted to be shared, she would have talked about it, tried to make her man agree to this. And at the opposite, in the other universe if she don't wanted to be shared, she wouldn't do it.
But it's not what happen, right ? The girl in the none sharing universe never address the subject. At no time the desire to be with other men cross her mine. And the girl in the sharing universe isn't reluctant to do it, it's what she always wanted.
So, do you really need to know how is this girl from another universe ? Do you really need to break through the space-time continuum to have a glance at all the possible version of her ?

But that implies it's either a poorly written character that has their acts and behavior controlled for the purpose of the story, at that point she's barely a character and more of a plot device. In the other case they're lying in one of the routes.