Having two games and one Patreon account

[AnonymousUnique123]

If they are found to be the same people doing 'Safe For Patreon' content and 'Not Safe for Patreon Content' under different labels, they are breaking Patreon's ToS. Don't forget that you use your personal, real data to sign in as a creator, for tax-reasons, so if Patreon ever find you're personally behind another studio you'll be accountable for what this second studio do outside of Patreon. That's their rule.

You keep mentioning breaking their ToS, as I've asked, where is it? I keep reading it right now from top to bottom and I'm not seeing it.
-As I've mentioned they're not breaking anything in the TOS, their TOS are all about what you do in their platform not what you do on other platforms so long as you don't link it yourself, so long as the devs themselves don't put their patreon links on their NSFW platform pages or their NSFW twitter.

*Also, from what you're painting of them, they are tyrannical and whimsical with their rules. You don't get banned from doing SFW vids on youtube when you're a pornstar or NSFW creator on the side are you?

 

[moskyx]

You keep mentioning breaking their ToS, as I've asked, where is it? I keep reading it right now from top to bottom and I'm not seeing it.
-As I've mentioned they're not breaking anything in the TOS, their TOS are all about what you do in their platform not what you do on other platforms so long as you don't link it yourself, so long as the devs themselves don't put their patreon links on their NSFW platform pages or their NSFW twitter.

*Also, from what you're painting of them, they are tyrannical and whimsical with their rules. You don't get banned from doing SFW vids on youtube when you're a pornstar or NSFW creator on the side are you?

morphnet already showed in this very same thread where Patreon says that they look what you do outside Patreon. -> https://f95zone.to/threads/having-two-games-and-one-patreon-account.227460/post-14993006

Their stance is that everything you do while getting funds from Patreon is indeed being funded by Patreon, even though you never mentioned or linked that other content in your Patreon page. I'm not here to judge Patreon but to help people understand how it works and what they are risking by using it to get funds while creating content against their rules. What other platforms do with their own rules is irrelevant to this case.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

by the way, I heard that sub-star has similar rules (r*pe, incest, bestiality) for some reason they don't enforce them for now, but it doesn't seem to be 100% safe there either.

100% true. In fact, their guidelines use way less precise wording than Patreon's. If they ever deploy the banhammer, they can ban a lot of "vanilla" content.

 

[morphnet]

Okay, I would be advertising it alongside banned content, what are they gonna do? ban my patreon? I'm not a patreon user.

They'd ban the dev's with banned content you listed on that page

I'm not here to argue right or wrong, This ain't about that, this is about if it doesn't hurt patreon legally or put it at risk legally then what's the problem?

The problem is it is against the Terms of use and guidelines

Can I as a supporter look at my favorite dev's work, find out he has SFW works that I also like and support it too?
or nah?

Yes you can

Can you create a page listing both the SFW AND NSFW content which includes banned content, again yes you can BUT you are then putting all the dev's that fall into that category in jeopardy of being caught and having their patreon accounts banned....

You do legitimate patreon page people might like (SFW character illustrations, Art Gudies etc), they find out you do fictional porn on the side and BAM! you're banned?

No, only if said fictional porn includes banned content, then they get banned. So long as their fictional porn does NOT have banned content they are safe....

Actually let's just make this simple, Does Patreon have bias against more extreme content? Because from what I understand they only have anti extreme content rules so that they won't get trouble.

No they don't, they only ban a few kinks / fetishes, YOU can easily find out what they allow and don't allow by reading their guide lines and terms of use.

But if they have BIAS then there's simply no work around.

Not really sure why you keep saying bias? Patreon has the same rules as ALL the other service providers, the only difference is they are enforcing them more strictly and lately more often.

Creators and supporters going out of their way to advertise or post content in such a manner that they're not risking patreon have no meaning if patreon themselves will bend their rules or add more rules to shut them down.

Have NO idea what you mean by bending their rules and they are not / have not added more rules, their rules banning incest, beasty, non con etc. have been in place for years.

Also all this information is freely available and easy to find so not sure how you are getting so much wrong here?

by the way, I heard that sub-star has similar rules (r*pe, incest, bestiality) for some reason they don't enforce them for now, but it doesn't seem to be 100% safe there either.

They have the same rules, if you are serious about your project, you should look up their TOS and read it and the same for patreon.

Lmao, the point is that they're not circumventing any rules. As far as TOS specifics go.

Of course they are, patreon CAN NOT be sure people are not subbing to the SFW project to support the NSFW project and so will ask to have patreon link removed from ANY source that include information about NSFW projects that include banned content.

-Also, they're not funding 'certain kinds of content' and they're not hosting it on their platform is the point. Hence, the different named and different content patreon acc and subscribestar acc. Because one is for funding SFW(patreon) and one is for funding NSFW(Subscribestar) and the dev themselves does not link their Patreon acc on their NSFW pages.

It doesn't matter if the dev links both or a fan or a site, a patreon link on the same page as banned content IS NOT ALLOWED

Because as far as Patreon's concerned they should not be able to punish their devs for their supporters ways to support them so long as the dev drew a clear line between his NSFW and SFW works. (Not linking their patreon page themselves or even not mentioning it themselves.)

Again it does NOT matter if someone other than the dev posts links, it's about patreons name showing up with banned content...........

-As I've mentioned they're not breaking anything in the TOS, their TOS are all about what you do in their platform not what you do on other platforms so long as you don't link it yourself, so long as the devs themselves don't put their patreon links on their NSFW platform pages or their NSFW twitter.

Then you are either NOT reading it or NOT understanding it, I have posted the same screen shot twice where it clearly says

"as a result, we may also look at what you do outside of patreon"

AND

"if you find a new and creative way to hurt patreon or our community we may take action to prevent it"

*Also, from what you're painting of them, they are tyrannical and whimsical with their rules. You don't get banned from doing SFW vids on youtube when you're a pornstar or NSFW creator on the side are you?

Firstly, youtube and patreon are two completely different companies offering two completely different services.
Secondly, you are making baseless claims by saying "they are tyrannical and whimsical with their rules." AND you are offering nothing to support those claims either.
Thirdly, from your replies here it is clear you have not read the Terms of USE or the community guidelines and seem to be going solely off of hear say, which if your points weren't already invalid, would make them invalid.

If you have time to reply here, you have time to look up and actually read their terms of use and community guidelines AND see that they have been around for years as well....

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

They'd ban the dev's with banned content you listed on that page



The problem is it is against the Terms of use and guidelines



Yes you can

Can you create a page listing both the SFW AND NSFW content which includes banned content, again yes you can BUT you are then putting all the dev's that fall into that category in jeopardy of being caught and having their patreon accounts banned....



No, only if said fictional porn includes banned content, then they get banned. So long as their fictional porn does NOT have banned content they are safe....



No they don't, they only ban a few kinks / fetishes, YOU can easily find out what they allow and don't allow by reading their guide lines and terms of use.



Not really sure why you keep saying bias? Patreon has the same rules as ALL the other service providers, the only difference is they are enforcing them more strictly and lately more often.



Have NO idea what you mean by bending their rules and they are not / have not added more rules, their rules banning incest, beasty, non con etc. have been in place for years.

Also all this information is freely available and easy to find so not sure how you are getting so much wrong here?



They have the same rules, if you are serious about your project, you should look up their TOS and read it and the same for patreon.



Of course they are, patreon CAN NOT be sure people are not subbing to the SFW project to support the NSFW project and so will ask to have patreon link removed from ANY source that include information about NSFW projects that include banned content.



It doesn't matter if the dev links both or a fan or a site, a patreon link on the same page as banned content IS NOT ALLOWED



Again it does NOT matter if someone other than the dev posts links, it's about patreons name showing up with banned content...........



Then you are either NOT reading it or NOT understanding it, I have posted the same screen shot twice where it clearly says

"as a result, we may also look at what you do outside of patreon"

AND

"if you find a new and creative way to hurt patreon or our community we may take action to prevent it"



Firstly, youtube and patreon are two completely different companies offering two completely different services.
Secondly, you are making baseless claims by saying "they are tyrannical and whimsical with their rules." AND you are offering nothing to support those claims either.
Thirdly, from your replies here it is clear you have not read the Terms of USE or the community guidelines and seem to be going solely off of hear say, which if your points weren't already invalid, would make them invalid.

If you have time to reply here, you have time to look up and actually read their terms of use and community guidelines AND see that they have been around for years as well....

-First of all, while youtube and Patreon might be different services, they are both funding platforms. The main difference being patreon is more streamlined. Their 'risks' are similar. So it seems to me patreon is only banning more content because they can(Tyrannical), don't know if they are pressured or not, Patreon is California based after all.

-Yet I see a post from not so long ago that said his patreon was reinstated after just deleting links.
-Also some devs here which I will not name have content which are in clear violation of Community Guidelines(hence I called them whimsical)

-The fact that patreon doesn't know for sure why people are subbing? they don't need to because the SFW work will cover their asses. That's why removal of links was necessary + actual SFW works on the patreon page. Gives patreon plausible deniability when they're questioned and gives devs plausible deniability too when they themselves were not the ones promoting their different natured works side by side.
So long as it's not some fucked up Child**** shit then what 'risks' are they really referring to here?

"if you find a new and creative way to hurt patreon or our community we may take action to prevent it"
-This refers to the patreon creator consciously circumventing their rules, which they are not though are they? Because a third party is involved. They can never prove that, neither do people who wants to go after patreon for it.

"as a result, we may also look at what you do outside of patreon"
-As I've said, they are worried about 'risks', hence the need to give patreon a way for Deniability. And if successfully given, what's the problem?


ANYWAYS, If I'm still not clear. I'm just trying to figure out ways where devs win and Patreon doesn't lose sleep over it. If you all think this might be too risky I'll just go ahead and delete my posts. You all the experienced ones in this topic, you tell me. Scratch that, I'm sleepy.

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

100% true. In fact, their guidelines use way less precise wording than Patreon's. If they ever deploy the banhammer, they can ban a lot of "vanilla" content.

They seem to be taking pride in their anti-censorship though given the testimonials they are siting in their website.

 

[Qahlz]

-Also some devs here which I will not name have content which are in clear violation of Community Guidelines(hence I called them whimsical)

I wouldn't neccessarily say they're whimsical, it may just be because that content flew under their radar so far. I bet if someone were to report that, they'd take action.
And AFAIK you need to be subscribed to a creator to report their content, so it's not like any random dude can look through leaked releases and then report their creator without first paying them.

 

[LfkCn]

I want to make the situation a bit more secure. I've developed two games, but I'm not present on any sites like f95 or similar, and I don't have a Discord page. I'm a mysterious developer who doesn't communicate with players. I've created a Patreon account for my vanilla game, while the other game is something I share completely on a whim through my own website. Some users on f95 or similar sites asked the mods to add my game to their site, and naturally, they did. As expected, they also added my Patreon account, because they always do that. In such a situation, could Patreon still bring down the ban hammer on me? I feel I shouldn't be held responsible for any developments on a site where I don't even have a presence.

 

[moskyx]

I want to make the situation a bit more secure. I've developed two games, but I'm not present on any sites like f95 or similar, and I don't have a Discord page. I'm a mysterious developer who doesn't communicate with players. I've created a Patreon account for my vanilla game, while the other game is something I share completely on a whim through my own website. Some users on f95 or similar sites asked the mods to add my game to their site, and naturally, they did. As expected, they also added my Patreon account, because they always do that. In such a situation, could Patreon still bring down the ban hammer on me? I feel I shouldn't be held responsible for any developments on a site where I don't even have a presence.

You'll be held responsible for making that other game on your website. That's where your problem with Patreon lies, they don't want their creators to be involved with banned content anywhere. You just can't use their funding service while offering banned content elsewhere, that's their rules and you agreed them when you signed in.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

I want to make the situation a bit more secure. I've developed two games, but I'm not present on any sites like f95 or similar, and I don't have a Discord page. I'm a mysterious developer who doesn't communicate with players. I've created a Patreon account for my vanilla game, while the other game is something I share completely on a whim through my own website. Some users on f95 or similar sites asked the mods to add my game to their site, and naturally, they did. As expected, they also added my Patreon account, because they always do that. In such a situation, could Patreon still bring down the ban hammer on me? I feel I shouldn't be held responsible for any developments on a site where I don't even have a presence.

Yes they can ban you. Look, it's not that complicated. Patreon is about supporting you. Not your game, but you, the creator. There are many ways to support an art project and not the artist, but Patreon is about the opposite, starting with their entire brand name.

So yes, Patreon does not want you making incest porn. The only way to sidestep this is to release the problematic game under an alias (a good one) and never reveal that identity link. So your Patreon link is NOT EXPECTED to be added to the incest game page on f95, because no one knows you're the author, and if it is somehow added, you can message the mods to purge it.

 

[LfkCn]

fortunately I can't develop a single game, it's impossible for me to develop two games at the same time... still it's nice to be able to clarify some things.

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

Yes they can ban you. Look, it's not that complicated.

It is a teenie bit complicated though. I mean, the reason why guy even entertained the idea of finding a workaround is because he saw people getting away with it.
And I too see someone currently getting away with it, No doubt others have as well, just sayin.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Nah, it's dead simple in my view.

1. Make "problematic" porn.
2. Have a successful patreon campaign.
3. Have reasonable certainty in what tomorrow brings.

Pick no more than two. What you call "getting away with it" is simply picking 1&2 at the cost of 3. If you accept risk, a valid choice. Just don't be a dummy who pretends the risk to lose a several thousand dollars per month revenue stream isn't there.

 

[morphnet]

-First of all, while youtube and Patreon might be different services, they are both funding platforms. The main difference being patreon is more streamlined. Their 'risks' are similar.

And if you looked into the situation you would find out that youtube had similar issues for example :they had a number of accounts advertising their patreon and other funding services with NSFW clips and youtube closed those channels. People then got creative and started using mirrors and other things to create those adds and youtube closed those channels too.

See my reply to your other points below for more detailed explanation. *

So it seems to me patreon is only banning more content because they can(Tyrannical), don't know if they are pressured or not, Patreon is California based after all.

The fact that you don't know if they were pressured into it speaks volumes, this means that you are forming an opinion without even first attempting to look into the facts and details. These facts and details are freely available on the internet so there is no reason you could not find them in a few QUICK searches.

-Yet I see a post from not so long ago that said his patreon was reinstated after just deleting links.
-Also some devs here which I will not name have content which are in clear violation of Community Guidelines(hence I called them whimsical)

Unlike what some people here and on other platforms think, patreon is NOT an adult service, it is a service which also allows SOME adult content. It would be impossible for them to monitor every picture, song, sound clip, video, podcast, program, porn game etc. etc. etc. so they rely on reports. There are dev's who have patreon accounts with banned content BUT they have not been reported or they have slipped through the cracks. How you are able to see that as whimsical is beyond me.

*The same goes for youtube, it is impossible to view and listen to every clip uploaded so they rely on a report system.

-The fact that patreon doesn't know for sure why people are subbing? they don't need to because the SFW work will cover their asses.

That is not how the law or business works, in fact you might want to look up what it means to TRY use a legitimate business to cover making money from an illegal one

That's why removal of links was necessary + actual SFW works on the patreon page. Gives patreon plausible deniability when they're questioned and gives devs plausible deniability too when they themselves were not the ones promoting their different natured works side by side.

This kind of thinking is not based in reality and is NOT how the law or business works, patreon is also NOT looking for "plausible deniability", they are trying to protect their business and their community.

So long as it's not some fucked up Child**** shit then what 'risks' are they really referring to here?

Their reputation, their company standing, the ability to offer the best service possible by using financial services that would back out if patreon allowed content such as rape, incest, beastiality etc. etc. other creators having their accounts linked with a service that condones and support products that include / glorify rape, incest, beastiality etc. etc.

You must be registered to see the links

"if you find a new and creative way to hurt patreon or our community we may take action to prevent it"
-This refers to the patreon creator consciously circumventing their rules, which they are not though are they? Because a third party is involved. They can never prove that, neither do people who wants to go after patreon for it.

They don't need to "prove" anything and not sure why you think they do or to whom they would have to prove it.....

"as a result, we may also look at what you do outside of patreon"
-As I've said, they are worried about 'risks', hence the need to give patreon a way for Deniability. And if successfully given, what's the problem?

Again, patreon is NOT looking for you or anyone else to give them "deniability" they are not going to spend time AND resources on explaining each case to those who want to pull their services.

ANYWAYS, If I'm still not clear. I'm just trying to figure out ways where devs win and Patreon doesn't lose sleep over it. If you all think this might be too risky I'll just go ahead and delete my posts. You all the experienced ones in this topic, you tell me. Scratch that, I'm sleepy.

The fact is your posts are also not giving patreon credit were credit is due.

They have clearly stated their rules, so when a dev is found breaking them they have every right to ban them because it is on the dev to have read the rules and then the dev still CHOSE to break them BUT patreon contacts them and gives them avenues to correct the situation by removing the banned content and get their account up and running again.

Patreon offers the service of allowing creators to submit content to make sure they are safe and can keep their accounts.
They can also contact the safety team and get all the information they need on topics like "links" and "advertising" in order to take steps to keep their accounts safe.

If you really want to help and "try to figure out ways where devs win and Patreon doesn't lose sleep over it." then your first step should be making sure you are fully informed with all the facts and details of the situation.

 

[anne O'nymous]

As for examples, I'll defer to forum historians but I'm sure I've read more than a couple of threads here in General talking about deplatformed devs for this reason -at least, for creating/offering/sharing banned content outside of Patreon, as in their Discord servers or social media. I just don't follow that kind of games so I'm not really on the loop, but some months ago, many devs took a more strict stance on what they do outside of Patreon because someone else got burned.

There's few names that cross my mind regarding incest patches. One of them simply said something along the line of "yes, the patch is up to date", what was enough for Patreon to put his account under review.
All it need is to not be careful enough once, and having at least one hater waiting for the occasion to report you.

Patreon default attitude is to be lenient (what we don't know don't hurt us), but even when they were directly in charge of the Trust and Safety team, they never closed their eyes to what was reported.

 

[AnonymousUnique123]

• If you really want to help and "try to figure out ways where devs win and Patreon doesn't lose sleep over it." then your first step should be making sure you are fully informed with all the facts and details of the situation.

-All of what you said can be summed up to them just protecting their reputation right? And what was the purpose of my suggestion of having two separate accounts in different plats? To do just that. So people will have a hard time faulting them for it, The Youtube channels you are talking about were actively linking patreon and posting NSFW clips, that's a far cry from what I'm suggesting no?

-As far as how worried they are for their reputation being sullied by content they wrote in the community guidelines, My stance was about questioning how much are they really afraid, given that I see examples of them turning a blind eye to some content creator, especially given the fact patreon is 'California based', When I said I don't know if they're pressured or not, I did not mean that literally, I insinuated that they are indeed pressured, because it is 'Californian based', what else need be said about that? It's one if not the most feministic state in the Country. They are afraid of their reputation And yet--

• I see an example of them turning a blind eye(And yes, they are, because the guy was creating banned content on another platform and it was reinstated after deleting their patreon link. Can't remember exactly what it was but I do remember him saying it was indeed banned content.). From your logic they should have never reinstated it Which leads me to believe they are turning a blind eye to other creators with similar cases. Hence, My challenge about how afraid they really are.
  
  
• Also, when did we get to illegal stuff? We're talking about porn, and the only thing illegal in most countries that are radioactive as far as I know are CP. Very little countries have anti porn for other varieties, much less enforce them.

*This will be my last reply, the tone you're giving me in your last sentence as well as the last sentence as you wrote in a previous reply indicates you're out to punish rather than argue. So far as my arguments go it's a bunch of blob to you. I'm not gonna suffer that, Although I do appreciate the long ass replies, In the end you're making it punitive so Good luck with that.

 

[morphnet]

All of what you said can be summed up to them just protecting their reputation right?

No, as I pointed out a few times, they are also protecting their community, the other creators using their service. If mastercard and visa pull their services from the patreon other creators could and will loose supporters and other negative effects.

And what was the purpose of my suggestion of having two separate accounts in different plats? To do just that. So people will have a hard time faulting them for it,

What part of, this has already been done and failed are you not getting?

The Youtube channels you are talking about were actively linking patreon and posting NSFW clips, that's a far cry from what I'm suggesting no?

NO

-As far as how worried they are for their reputation being sullied by content they wrote in the community guidelines, My stance was about questioning how much are they really afraid, given that I see examples of them turning a blind eye to some content creator, especially given the fact patreon is 'California based',

I'm getting the distinct impression you are NOT reading at all and simply replying.....

They are NOT turning a blind eye to anything.... they do NOT / can NOT review and monitor EVERY creation from EVERY creator using their service and they rely heavily on reports.

From your logic they should have never reinstated it Which leads me to believe they are turning a blind eye to other creators with similar cases. Hence, My challenge about how afraid they really are.

Ok now I'm convinced you are not reading....

They have clearly stated their rules, so when a dev is found breaking them they have every right to ban them because it is on the dev to have read the rules and then the dev still CHOSE to break them BUT patreon contacts them and gives them avenues to correct the situation by removing the banned content and get their account up and running again.

They can also contact the safety team and get all the information they need on topics like "links" and "advertising" in order to take steps to keep their accounts safe.

This will be my last reply, the tone you're giving me in your last sentence as well as the last sentence as you wrote in a previous reply indicates you're out to punish rather than argue. So far as my arguments go it's a bunch of blob to you. I'm not gonna suffer that, good luck with that.

That is probably for the best, in the future IF you are going to "argue", it's best done by first getting all the facts and information on the topic and NOT "arguing" on mere hear say and third hand posts. It might also do you some good to look into the business world and find out how businesses actually work and are run.

 

[Midzay]

Guys, is there no way to ask this question to a Patreon employee? Great discussion but very much like fortune telling.

 

[LfkCn]

Guys, is there no way to ask this question to a Patreon employee? Great discussion but very much like fortune telling.

I asked, but unfortunately, I haven’t received an answer. It’s been almost three weeks.

 

[Count Morado]

I asked, but unfortunately, I haven’t received an answer. It’s been almost three weeks.

This is a "fuck around and find out" scenario. The developer you mention in your OP is most likely in that situation - under the radar, but if one disgruntled fan/former subscriber gets pissed off and reports the developer. Boom goes the dynamite. (Unless it is the developer I am thinking of, and then what you need to know is that they already ran up against Patreon in the past and there is an agreement between the two entities about certain things).

Honestly, if you want to create a game that would violate Patreon Community Guidelines and TOS --- then don't use Patreon. The end.

You could get caught day one.
You could get caught month one.
You could get caught year one.
You could get caught year ten.
You could end up never getting caught.

However, is it really worth it to take the risk for, on average $100 USD per month? The vast majority of adult game creators on Patreon bring $100 USD or less per month even after 3-4 years on the platform.

If you're already going to make low bank, use a platform that is more friendly to your content (if you can find one - I mean almost every platform has similar rules as Patreon... they just currently don't enforce them as stringently, but as they get bigger, watch out).