Not qute in the shed but near it, please spare a thought for Court Mage Teresa, who's been dutifully sucking off the same reticent guard for around a year now. Try as she might, she can't get him to spill it.
Ion.TemUS
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2017
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Hard disagree. In fact I think you are the one comparing porn-games to other games. You dragged this whole point about how porn games are "just" porn games and not comparable to other media into this debate.
I am of the strong opinion that each form of media is art, that includes porn, especially so if it is drawn or written (if it was filmed then it would be in the realm of "performing arts"). But like I said, you are the one taking that statement of NTRprofessionalconsumer about the pacing and narrative and start the comparison by saying "this is just porn, dont pretend its another form of media". And then you back that point up by listing all of the natural constraints that the genre comes with, namely suspension of disbelief and an overfocus on sexual content. I think though what everyone else in here is doing is not compare the narrative of a porn game to other media, but rather rate it within it's own genre. Looking down upon a piece of work just because the primary goal is masturbation is stupid. Equally so, skill is required to strike the balance between making people exited, aroused, interested in the characters and world and to keep a proper pacing to let the narrative come to fruition. These are the kinds of (rare) games that you come for the "plot" but stay for the plot, and you play the game to the end and ideally you leave satisfied, maybe even come back every once in a while.
Anyway, all that stuff aside.
I agree with some here who say that Leto is too "uninvolved" (so far), especially considering I would say we are at least 50% through the game. My favorite subgenre of NTR is hidden cheating and corruption, so HC perfectly hits my spot. But I agree that the way the narrative is going so far, there is little (even indirect) antagonism between the "villains" and Leto. All of that can still come ofc, but the bread crumbs hopefully start falling soon, just to nudge him in the direction of "something is going on". I think it would be dissatisfying and way too simple to end this game on the conclusion of "and Leto never knew anything till the very end, the Duke has the Kingdom now, Ulrod has a high position and is with Cyanna, lots of people are suffering, bla, bla, bla.
I would see the best course this game can take and still keep an authentic NTR experience in a phyricc victory kind of ending, where Leto stops the plot that grips the Kingdom overall, but maybe looses the girls (or some of them depending on the specific ending you get).
Ofc we can also include a super-bad ending where basically everything falls to ruin, leto gets chased out the country or never realizes anything and is the hero under the duke and whatnot while rose gets screwed and he finds out years down the line, then a plot where its middle of the road, as well as a "happy end" or a "revenge" end, etc. etc. But that is unrealistic. Too much work, too much resources, too long a time it would take, and many more reasons why not.
Realistically, there could be one "bad end" and a "mixed end" and a "bittersweet end". I see bad end territory in either everything going to shit or at least him loosing the girl(s) for good. Mixed ending would mean a trade-off, and imo the best-feeling end actually. We do have the NTR fix of "loss of S.O." while maybe getting some kind of victory like saving the country. Imo this is the most likely thing to happen at the current trajectory of the story, and also the one that makes the most sense "Leto the hero, but he will never have his girl". "bittersweet" or "revenge" would involve either Leto finding a solace (finds out, saves his girl, forgives her OR gets another girl in the end, arrives at a point he is satisfied OR actually gets revenge down the line).
The problem for all of these is "how do we get there in an organic way in the time left till the finale?". How do we make Leto realize what is going on with the schemes behind the scenes? Cause as much as NTR is about powerlessness, we have built up this whole story with Leto as the hero who defies that. Despite being CLUELESS, he actually proves in every situation that whatever challenge gets thrown at him he grows with it. People continously expect him to fail or at least underestimate how good he does his job, and he continously surprises him. How would that not suggest that down the line in the narrative, he at least would save the Kingdom, even if he looses the girls ? (Edit: Wouldn't it make it even SWEETER of an experience to have Leto be such a capable guy and manage to do so much but then experience powerlessness in the face of his love life?)
Another core problem connected to this that some people seem to have with the current plot is, and I think I partially agree with that: Aside from Rose (which imo is also the hottest story because of that and because of countless other reasons), all of the girls, including Cyanna, are not directly romantic with Leto, Leto should not feel any problem or hurt (beyond feeling sorry for them to change in a negative way) from them starting something with other partners. Which - while it is still NTR in a broad sense - does definitely exist on the fringes of NTR.
sorry, this post is a bit rambly and while I feel my paragraphs themselves are coherent I feel the order in which I put them might be a bit mixed up. I hope you can still see a throughline in what Im saying. Im a bit tired today
You hard disagree against reality? Does a porn game transcend and become something new. So that it can no longer ever be called a porn game? We're all adults or should be, and it's silly to try pretending these are something different.
This is a pornographic site. We're in the game section of that site. So, this among others are porn games. It's really not complicated.
Great. Have that opinion. Still doesn't change the reality that it's still porn.
The others I responded to had also drawn parallels to other forms of media. I don't know where you're getting this notion that the conversations were limited to the genre of porn. It was about story telling. But, even within it's own genre it doesn't change my point. It's still just porn. That's not looking down at anything, it's calling it what it is. This attempt of trying to put it on a pedestal doesn't change the truth. It can be the highest quality porno. It's still a porno. Because that's it's genre.
But for the games, it'll be stretch to call them art. When within it's genre, they're obligated to have a sex scene per chapter. That's being forced to do something rather than doing it for artistic purposes. If the developers had real artistic freedom to tell their stories, they'd be able to go several chapters with absolutely no sex scenes without push back. Hell, they should be able to have only the most necessary scenes have sex within the story. Even if that meant having two sex scenes within the games lifetime. But, that's not the case. No matter how you try to look at it, the developers of the games have to meet a quota. And, if you think forced quotas is art, well..we'll just have to disagree on that.
It's obvious Leto will find out what's happening. All the protagonists so far have found out. It goes without saying. But, it's still an NTR story so the corruption of the girls will require them to been stolen away. And seeing as Leto's competence is a factor he'd have to find out after they've been stolen. That's the part that'll be too late for him. The world will be fine and some form of balance will be restored. Which is why those villagers were introduced. It was a exposition dump of the larger problem on their island. One that will evetually be resolved. Which will include some form of mystical rebalancing.Anyway, all that stuff aside.
I agree with some here who say that Leto is too "uninvolved" (so far), especially considering I would say we are at least 50% through the game. My favorite subgenre of NTR is hidden cheating and corruption, so HC perfectly hits my spot. But I agree that the way the narrative is going so far, there is little (even indirect) antagonism between the "villains" and Leto. All of that can still come ofc, but the bread crumbs hopefully start falling soon, just to nudge him in the direction of "something is going on". I think it would be dissatisfying and way too simple to end this game on the conclusion of "and Leto never knew anything till the very end, the Duke has the Kingdom now, Ulrod has a high position and is with Cyanna, lots of people are suffering, bla, bla, bla.
I would see the best course this game can take and still keep an authentic NTR experience in a phyricc victory kind of ending, where Leto stops the plot that grips the Kingdom overall, but maybe looses the girls (or some of them depending on the specific ending you get).
Ofc we can also include a super-bad ending where basically everything falls to ruin, leto gets chased out the country or never realizes anything and is the hero under the duke and whatnot while rose gets screwed and he finds out years down the line, then a plot where its middle of the road, as well as a "happy end" or a "revenge" end, etc. etc. But that is unrealistic. Too much work, too much resources, too long a time it would take, and many more reasons why not.
Realistically, there could be one "bad end" and a "mixed end" and a "bittersweet end". I see bad end territory in either everything going to shit or at least him loosing the girl(s) for good. Mixed ending would mean a trade-off, and imo the best-feeling end actually. We do have the NTR fix of "loss of S.O." while maybe getting some kind of victory like saving the country. Imo this is the most likely thing to happen at the current trajectory of the story, and also the one that makes the most sense "Leto the hero, but he will never have his girl". "bittersweet" or "revenge" would involve either Leto finding a solace (finds out, saves his girl, forgives her OR gets another girl in the end, arrives at a point he is satisfied OR actually gets revenge down the line).
The problem for all of these is "how do we get there in an organic way in the time left till the finale?". How do we make Leto realize what is going on with the schemes behind the scenes? Cause as much as NTR is about powerlessness, we have built up this whole story with Leto as the hero who defies that. Despite being CLUELESS, he actually proves in every situation that whatever challenge gets thrown at him he grows with it. People continously expect him to fail or at least underestimate how good he does his job, and he continously surprises him. How would that not suggest that down the line in the narrative, he at least would save the Kingdom, even if he looses the girls ? (Edit: Wouldn't it make it even SWEETER of an experience to have Leto be such a capable guy and manage to do so much but then experience powerlessness in the face of his love life?)
Another core problem connected to this that some people seem to have with the current plot is, and I think I partially agree with that: Aside from Rose (which imo is also the hottest story because of that and because of countless other reasons), all of the girls, including Cyanna, are not directly romantic with Leto, Leto should not feel any problem or hurt (beyond feeling sorry for them to change in a negative way) from them starting something with other partners. Which - while it is still NTR in a broad sense - does definitely exist on the fringes of NTR.
sorry, this post is a bit rambly and while I feel my paragraphs themselves are coherent I feel the order in which I put them might be a bit mixed up. I hope you can still see a throughline in what Im saying. Im a bit tired today
Any form of human expression and creativity is art. A rule-34 piece of some popular anime girl is art. An erotic smut book like Fifty Shades of Grey is art. People make sculptures of vaginas and penises. There are erotic performance shows in some countries where people have sex on stage. And RPGMaker games are...
You guessed it. Art. Art doesn't need to be high quality- Look at the thousands of shitty reality TV shows made over the years, or the god-awful movies that release and undersell. Just because it's bad, or because it's lewd, or because it depicts certain themes heavily does not reduce it from art.
The creator of this game is not forced to do anything. They choose to include sex scenes. Sure, it's financially motivated... But the Marvel Cinematic Universe is also financially motivated based on viewer response. So are weekly mangas, who if they are not popular enough get axed or cancelled. Unfortunately we live in a world where artists are not free to write the stories they wish- That does not mean their works are not art. And honestly? I find it incredibly disrespectful for you to suggest that the countless hours of hard work put into these games- The music, the art (pixel and drawn), the animations, the writing- That not even a single element of it is enough to constitute art, let alone combined... Simply because it has girls getting fucked.
Maybe the creator of this game WANTS sex scenes. Like you keep saying... It is, after all, a pornographic. If the author suddenly released a chapter with no sex scenes, does that make the game legitimate art in your eyes? Your logic is highly flawed, as it nullifies 99% of the artwork created in modern day.
Hell, you realise how much artwork in the past was commissioned or made on request from someone else? The Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel was a 'forced quota'.
Dude. You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. It's obvious you're going to keep coming up with your own interpretation. So I'm not gonna keep explaining it. Just drop it and lets move on. As it's gotten to the point of just wasting both of our time.
Ah yes the ceremonial debate before an upcoming update.
Waiting to play this till close to the end. Hoping for scenes where they do it in front of MC and dont care he is watching. Something CH 2 was so close to having happen but didnt.
Hi! Just stumbled upon this game and from what I've read in the review/post this game seems like a banger but I have a couple of questions!
Do we know if the game is close to the end? If not are we far from it? I'm mainly asking because if the game will end in a few months I'll probably just wait until then to play it
Do we know if the game is close to the end? If not are we far from it? I'm mainly asking because if the game will end in a few months I'll probably just wait until then to play it
We're pretty far off. We get an update once a month, and each update is about an hour long in gameplay.
I'd say the game is... 60-70% through the story, but it's taken several years to get to this point with development inbetween each update taking a little longer due to the developer adding more detail and complexities to animations and the story. If I had to guess, the game will probably be finished earliest, third quarter of 2025.
I'd say the game is... 60-70% through the story, but it's taken several years to get to this point with development inbetween each update taking a little longer due to the developer adding more detail and complexities to animations and the story. If I had to guess, the game will probably be finished earliest, third quarter of 2025.
Oh okay thanks for that, guess I'll play it now, forget it for a while and come back and do it again once it's done then
Matoga
Active Member
- Nov 3, 2019
- 740
- 1,170
Nah man, there was nothing ceremonious about the last 3 days here, this was a different kind of animal entirely. I don't remember the last time this many words were spoken in this little amount of time on this thread, and the funniest thing is that it wasn't even about the upcoming Update at all. xdd
Matoga
Active Member
- Nov 3, 2019
- 740
- 1,170
I have no way of knowing what N_Taii's plans are for the story but i would be...surprised, to put it lightly, if the game would end before 2026. I could definitely be wrong but i just simply don't see how that's possible, we're 16 months away from 2026 and for HC3 that's...i would say 10, maybe 11 updates at best, substract 4 because that's how many endings there will be and each one gets it's own Update, and now you're left with 6 or 7 Updates for both the main story AND the 2 side characters, and that is if the very last Updates comes out in December next year.
Miss Y
Member
- Sep 12, 2016
- 334
- 554
In all fairness... Even with Haylen being my favorite character in the game, it feels like there really isn't much to talk about from the previews of this update. And I don't mean that in a "man, it looks boring" way to complain, but just that there isn't a whole lot of substance that we can glean from them at a glance without seeing the context.
You have Haylen masturbating in her bedroom which feels pretty baseline at this point in the story, Haylen dreaming about being naked around Leto which did spark its own little discussion, and then Jazon walking away with Haylen at night. Even the written parts are mostly straight-forward and to the point, not really teasing anything specific other than the extra freeroam scenes.
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Ion.TemUS
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2017
- 1,140
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Ah yes. Reality. That thing that is highly subjective and interpretative to everyone's unique viewpoint.
You are right.
Paintings are art. Music is art. Movies are art. Games are art. Porn games are art. To think anything is compromised or less valuable or hard to do or has to be looked down upon just because it is erotic, if some of the oldest art in the world is erotica and some of the most popular media pieces on earth are based on or involve sexual acts is just arrogant.
Nobody says any game here needs to be a "Lord of the Rings" or a Game of Thrones or a Monogatari. But that does not mean there can't be good writing within the confines of the genre of porn game.
Lets drop the debate. Clearly there is no common ground we can find here. You have your opinion
and everyone who disagrees is not seeing reality for what it is.
The part your quoting I sectioned off. As I'm asking you why you said you hard disagreed with me calling a porn game a porn game. Which is what Hentaria is. That's the reality and it isn't subjective. These games on this site are porn games.
But Seeing as you cut out everything I was addressing in the part that you wanted to quote. To hard focus on a singular part and misrepresent what I just said. Then going a tangent that ignores the point I was making in that quote. It would be pointless to continue, so I do agree with you there.
_Grotest_
Member
- Aug 5, 2018
- 371
- 774
I know I'm prolonging this debate when y'all trying to end it but let me express my thought.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with your "porn is porn" point, after all it's an obvious fact. They are trying to debate your whole "porn games aren't art" but you keep derailing it into wrong direction.
Personally I disagree with this part. Sex is not some forced quota, it's literally a core of it's genre. Porn was created to satisfy people's sexual fetishes/desires. There's a big difference between games that use sexual relationships as flavor to story and those that build story around porn. First one wouldn't be considered a porn game since it's not focused on satisfying sexual desires of its players. This is where you lost your point. You mix up porn games with other ones that contain sex only for adding some spice to story.
There's nothing forced. Developer can choose how he presents his game freely: it's either a game with some erotica or straight up porn game. I agree there's a lot of poorly written porn games but even so it doesn't exlude them from being art. All it comes to is its quality, not to its right to be called art.
I hardly paid attention to this dumb debate, but I'll say this: I can't stand the breadtuber-adjacent people here trying to extract a deeper meaning or hold a porn game up to the same standards as a non-pornographic story. This is a porn game, but it's still a work of art too. Its purpose is to make us cum, but there's thought and effort put into it, and we all can appreciate what goes into this game and other porn games.
Let's have a different topic!
1) What are your favourite 'types' of corruption in netorare? To give some examples: The Duke I would say is a form of coercion and manipulation, using real threats to convince Rose to give herself up to him. Ulrod is more emotional degradation/gaslighting, using Cyanna's trauma and low self-worth against her. Lily is similar to Rose-Coercion in the form of offering a better life.
Haylen is purely sexual, or abusing a loneliness and lack of intimacy.
Other types are blackmail, addiction of any sort... I'm just curious to see what types of netorare you feel are either over-used or underused.
2) What is your favourite corruption progression?
The classic one is: Groping -> Making Out -> Handjob -> Blowjob -> Condom sex -> Raw sex -> Anal -> Degeneracy.
What sort of things do you feel these games miss out on? Do you think it goes too fast? Too slow? How would you change, for example, Rose or Cyanna's progression in the grand scheme of things to suit YOUR perfect netorare vision?
1) What are your favourite 'types' of corruption in netorare? To give some examples: The Duke I would say is a form of coercion and manipulation, using real threats to convince Rose to give herself up to him. Ulrod is more emotional degradation/gaslighting, using Cyanna's trauma and low self-worth against her. Lily is similar to Rose-Coercion in the form of offering a better life.
Haylen is purely sexual, or abusing a loneliness and lack of intimacy.
Other types are blackmail, addiction of any sort... I'm just curious to see what types of netorare you feel are either over-used or underused.
2) What is your favourite corruption progression?
The classic one is: Groping -> Making Out -> Handjob -> Blowjob -> Condom sex -> Raw sex -> Anal -> Degeneracy.
What sort of things do you feel these games miss out on? Do you think it goes too fast? Too slow? How would you change, for example, Rose or Cyanna's progression in the grand scheme of things to suit YOUR perfect netorare vision?
An obvious point that one of them said they highly disagreed with when they sectioned it off to quote it. Instead of jumping in to make this go longer. Go back and reread what was written. I'm not going over this again.
Sure.
Ion.TemUS
Well-Known Member
- Jun 8, 2017
- 1,140
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I never said anything other than that, and I think most other people are coming from the same angle. Nobody thinks this is the height of writing, but to dismiss it isn't fair either. I think some of the people drawing and writing porn games have genuine talent and they can build a really good narrative at times. Tropes are tropes, but most of us accept them as part of the genre, we know the porn-logic would not work without those tropes. I think there is some writers making h-games - even if they are in the minority - who are setting higher standards for themselves (within the genre). Maybe even have idols and ambitions that go beyond porn. But they chose this field because they just like telling and creating these kinds of stories and because its profitable on top of that. I think there is nothing wrong with that. And there is nothing wrong wanting a bit more quality out of your porn.
Yes, the primary objective is to satisfy your kinks. But who here has not had the experience before, that they booted up a game, they played a bit into it, played some scenes, and as they are midway in the game they climax, but it kind of feels shitty afterwards. Cause it feels like there was no substance. In contrast, there is stories where you can "waste" a good evening, couple of hours, playing through a game and you finish your evening (or the game) thinking "damn, that was really satisfying", "I think im gonna leave the game installed, I might replay parts of it, explore the scenes I have not seen yet or that I skipped over the first time".
It's the quality that makes the difference between a "pump and dump" kind of game that you afterwards feel "wasted" your time, and a game where you are like "yea it might have JUST been porn, but that was a decent read and I don't mind having spend a few hours with it, might even do it again".