I'm playing this for the fourth evening now and about to break the curse a second time, with no idea how much more content there is to come. I'm really tempted to already give some feedback, so I do just that (maybe prematurely), or I wont find peace while playing any further. I'm also catching up reading the thread (I'm up to page 50 or something...), so maybe I just gonna repeat what already has been said, so bear with me, or just skip the parts you're already annoyed discussing. Still, maybe I can give another good argument for one or the other thing...
Obligatory praise (first things first)
setting: underwhelming/same old and boring at a first glance, but that turns out to be not only okay, but an excellent choice. There's simply no need to elaborate too much on worldbuilding (and the usual tropes) everyone is already familiar with, and nobody is here for that kind of (fantasy/isekai) plot (written by some 13 year old jackass...) anyways. And that's what makes this game so great: it focuses on exactly the right kind of plot: the characters. Still, the world isn't sold cheap either, and the author really knows how to setup an exciting story (
). And deliver. Oh boy...
characters: incredible. 10/10. This is the lewdest, absolutely most erotic kind of porn: Up close and personal.
writing: excellent. 10/10. The perfect rollercoaster of funny, sad, intriguing, witty and most importantly: erotic as fuck. Finally an author that understands what's to be emphasised, and what kind of plot is needed to make porn work: characters and the situations they are put in. I couldn't care less about demonkind and their enternal struggle against humanity, or the other way around, or - oh no - some third, even more evil party emerging (shocking) and all that bullshit. Just as much as is needed to setup the characters. And it's go time! Oh boy... Excellent shit.
art: very good 8/10. Sure, it's not the dopamine overloading, almost grotesque and exaggerated and over-shaded to shits and back boobies one might be used to, but don't be fooled. This shit is, if sometimes a bit wonky, absolutely lovely, very expressive (Cecille's many dumb faces are the best) and still easily manages to be incredibly hot and as such perfectly functional. The animation is great too. /v/tards would call it SOUL - and really mean it.
In short, it's a joy to follow the main story. And it's so good, I hope the game recieves the polish and streamlining it deserves. Because there are a few problems that render actually "playing" the game not so fun, and that hurts, because the meat of the game is so fucking good.
UI: main interface/navigation, or world screen
The main click and point adventure interface got it's charms, but I'm afraid it's the wrong choice here; a typical RPGM world map with chibis running around would serve this so much better, and I hope maybe this could be swapped out at some point. Let me elaborate:
- Navigating the click and point adventure with the mouse is fine, but with a game pad it's just a pain in the ass. All would be solved with an ordinary RPGM world map to run around in. Good game pad support for porn games is important, since it's way more convenient than using a keyboard and a mouse.
Can you imagine? I almost completely ignored Mihra a good chunk into the game, because I only ever reached her sprite while (later) playing with the mouse, yet initially I was playing with the game pad only, and so I always jumped to one of her boys who never had anything interesting to say (from where I probably could push the down button to reach Mihra...). That arrow/direction navigation is ass.
- It scales. You currently only have a bunch of screens, yet going right-right-right like in a flip book is already dumb and annoying. And I'm not suggesting that you implement a huge world. All you need is one screen for the town, with a house for the important npcs, the inn (and their interior screens/rooms), the void, and maybe another screen for the woods. That's it. A very compact scenery with plenty of room for all the NPCs and if you feel like adding another screen/location, it's no problem at all. Fun and easy to navigate with mouse and game pad alike.
- Fun activities: Aiths (crazy imaginary lewd wanna be priestess) scenes shouldn't be triggered automatically; but also they shouldn't be initiated by the player, since Aith is pursuing Mars. Ordinary RPGM chibi world would fix this easily, by having her show up on some screen/place and having her chibi chase the one of Mars, s.t. the scene gets triggered if she catches you; but the player may choose to escape her.
And that's just one example. Here's another: the lewd maid, Iris, right? Imagine there would be one screen for the hotel/inn they're staying at with a bunch of rooms, maybe a second floor, and the lewd maid, Iris, with her pussy exposed, randomly walks around, from room to room to clean it. So you can catch her to interact with her, in this case: how about free-use anywhere, anytime? (just have a bunch of different backgrounds and maybe also a bunch of different fuck positions, depending on the exact spot, and you're good to go) See? You just can't do fun stuff like this with a static click and point thing, but you can do all kinds of silly shit with RPGM - easily. Player and NPC movement might not seem like much, but it really is a powerful tool if used correctly.
- Mind tricks: steering your chibi around in a 2d world is simply much more immersive. Going to town and fuck some bitches. It's just not the same with your static screens.
UI: indicators
This one may be even more important than the main/world interface, and still holds true should you decide to stay with the static click and point screens: there's nothing more frustrating than having to check each character (or void/spiral object or what not...) over and over again whether they have something new to talk about or do, only to find out there's nothing to be done. It's such a waste of time. Plus, our main character is a demon mage/magus with elevated senses, instincts and magical powers, so for the love of god, implement some indicators that clearly tell the player whether there is (new) content behind a button/object/NPC.
For a start, don't put a dialog anywhere only to say: "Progress more of the main story to continue". There's no purpose. Instead, simply get rid of the character for the time being (e.g. the maid), or fine, let her there, which wouldn't be a problem with proper indicators in place, that signal whether you can do something (new/meaningful) to this character (or thing).
Similarly there is also no need to announce end of content for certain characters (that's rather something for the changelog, or the forum). Just make sure that their latest state makes some kind of sense. (e.g. I could indefinitely repeat Ivet's "I'm pregnant/meet the parents" scene, which does not make any sense at all. Also you should always end on a lewd fucking scene if it can be repeated indefinitely, obviously).
alright, indicators:
- Having no indicator at all (e.g. on an NPC) means there are only trivial things to talk about that the player already explored and exhausted. There is nothing (meaningful) to do whatsoever. Not even anything lewd. No need to click, nothing to see here, please move along.
- Have an action, or talk indicator if you can talk about something new with an NPC. E.g. certain nameless townfolks will have new gossip from time to time. Don't make me click every fucking day on them, only to be told the same old stuff, and then, for one day to get something new... It wastes so much time and is no fun at all. But also don't just take away the option to hear the same gossip again. So what do? Give our protagonist some magic power to know when people talk about something new, and let's have an indicator. An exclamation mark will do. Anything.
- Have a heart symbol for repeated lewd options, such as fucking the town bicycle. Maybe use another for the training readyness, or also use the heart (or whatever indicator).
- And maybe even have another special indicator for milestones that progress or branch the story. Maybe not.
That would help so much already. I mean, do you even have a fucking idea how many accumulated man-hours you've collectively wasted by all the anons repeatedly clicking on Lavinias spiral (or Vi's door), only to be able to click on talk to hear the same old line and fuck back off because there wasn't actually anything to do with or to Lavinia? Show some responsibility!
Also such indicators would have let me know that I'm missing out on Mihra, so I would have tryied harded to reach her anyways with my stupid game pad.
UI: training stage
It's fine with a mouse, but a horrible experience with a game pad. Please implement dedicated game pad controls there; navigating this thing with this "arrow/directions" concept is a mess. And training clearly needs you to switch fairly quickly from teasing to hard mode and back; which should have a dedicated button, then maybe use L/R buttons to switch modes, and something like that. Give it a thought, I'm sure you'll figure out something much better.
Gameification vs VN: training stage vs (post-)training
While the training collecting points to break the curse mechanic seemed to work fine at first for Cecille's first stage of training, it was already off with Sera's first training session, where I noticed that training Sera was done much too fast (i.e. I collect points far too quickly), with many post-training scenes left to be seen. And later the training gameification fell completely apart where all of a sudden post-training was no longer post, but actual training, and yet I had to go through a completely useless and detached game training stage first. This needs to be fixed, and I think you know where to put the knife here.
First and foremost: do not ask the player whether he wants to prematurely break the curse or whether he wants to watch the plot (the whole point and meat of the game), that's dumb and dumb players will pick the wrong choice, because they think this is a game and the first to break the curse wins something.
Indeed, this part of the game is a linear VN, not a game. The simple fix is to have as many hard point thresholds as needed for so and so many post-training scenes, so you can't go any faster than there are post-training scenes. Seconldy, if the post-training is actually proper training, then just skip the manual training stage alltogether. The training game is still functionally fairly useless (still fun, don't get me wrong), but this way the problem should be mostly fixed.
And maybe training scenes should have been more specific (with new goals/tools each session) instead of a generic collecting points thing. I don't know. It's not so important.
Helelle's shop
Make her introduce and explain the potions she has to sell, so there's a bit more talk with her, and you know what those fucking potions are. Maybe don't introduce the three potions all at the same time, but one after the other. Also that estrogen side-char/quest thing needs some dedicated talk and what's up with that anyways, not finished (implementing) yet? I never got an opportunity to use that, I believe, or did I? This was supposed to be for Aith, I believe? Well, she went nuts anyways...
Side characters
The main game/story is super strong, and sure, that's where to put your main effort and focus. Still, I believe your game would gain a lot if you would put a bit more into the side characters, and even introduce some more of them. A simple system as in Kichikuou Rance would work perfectly, where you have a "good" and a "bad" ending/outcome for each lewdable side-char depending on your actions (not that any of it would matter much in the big picture). And in fact, from what I can tell, this is pretty much what you're doing already.
This would not only serve to break up the mostly linear nature of the game, but also offer a way for plenty "nukige" (this is a porn game after all) and arranging the town and its people to your liking. Mars is a manwhore afterall. Yet, a bit into the game I've noticed there are plenty of time-slots where there simply isn't anything meaningful to do. This is fine, but the town should be really populated by plenty of options to have some fun with. Something to fight for, seduce and fuck (repeatedly once conquered/solved).
And there probably should be a few more places to visit (which would be no problem, once proper RPGM map and action/plot indicators as outlined above are in play), such that side characters may appear in different locations, so you can do them differently. Maybe some side-chars can have combined scenes. Interruption scenes. Anything goes.
Not to get lost in side-characters, but the town really does need some (more) life and opportunity to be changed by the player. And this side of the game not only would serve as a pleasant nukige contrast to the main plot, it would also allow the player to choose a comfortable pacing (of the main plot). Sometimes you just don't feel like training the priestess, and let her squirm and wait another day, hahaha.
Special shout out to Yvet and Odette: I will be so mad if I can not play my cards just right, so I end up with both of them in the same bed. At the same time. In competition to each other, judged and tamed by the great Mars. hahaha. But there should be the possible outcome of just one or the other becoming your (nukige/side-)fucktoy. Up to you. Good or bad end for the side chars, where becoming your fucktoy isn't necessarily always the bad end (or is it?).
Julia (I mean the mom with the kid): while I think she and her story is great, unfortunately it's all fixed on rails. Instead the player here should have the option to (actively) make sure her husband returns safely, or (passively) let him die. Help or don't. Preggers with a demon baby, or forever (un-)happy? with her returned husband?
While the main plot/story is mostly linear (with a later branch or two), the side characters are up for gameification!
And when the fuck do I get to lewd the lewd Iris (the lewd maid). AAAHHHHH. Again, tie lewding her into your own sexy maid to her bad end, or help her make her dreams come true for a good end and maybe a goodbye quicky for the player. Or just a hug, hahaha.
Basically, there should be a secondary achievements screen at the end of the game similar to Kichikuou Rance (see pic. related), where side characters either reached their god or bad end. That's all I'm asking for, so that players can take a screenshot and post it around in forums and on 4chan (this stuff is important; you also need a character sheet/overview picture kind of thing that introduces and teases all the characters in your game; this stuff is important).
This also means, that not everyone should end up with the same (side-)characters and endings, and that players indeed should be able to personalize the town by making tuff decisions. Have some mutually exclusive side characters. Flat or cow? Boobs or ass? ... Not that any of this is meaningful in the grande scheme of things, but it really does add a lot, so your game really becomes alive. And most importantly: have plenty of fun writing this. It's short. It's optional. So you can really go places and have some more extravagant fun with this.
Conclusion
I would look at the state of the current game as a nice prototype. No regrets (or hard feelings
nitrolith), but this needs to be put together from scratch. That's just the nature of prototypes. I would suggest to start with a small, compact, default-tileset RPGM world, set up the necessary locations and chibis, and then you put it all back together.
All the art and scenes do not need to be rewritten, a bit restructured, and it's all python anyways. I think you could do it without wasting too much time. Maybe some anons even wanna help with a proper RPGM template, putting a lovely compact world together and or help with some chibis. Once that's set up (which should be fairly straightforward), putting the scenes and stuff back should be equally simple. Sure, it still takes time, but it would be worth it 100% guaranteed. At least, think about it. Maybe later, once you're done and happy with the main plot. I don't know.
Hero Party Must Fall is simply way too good, and it would be really a shame to not give it the overhaul, streamlining and polish it deserves.
