Ren'Py Hero Party Must Fall [v0.5.3] [Nitrolith]

[kinglionheart]

Thank you, I greatly appreciate the feedback and the support.

What you described is usually the orthodox way to portray deities in fiction. Turning their own power into a weakness which makes sense for a story and especially in the context of an RPG. It can also feel satisfying to outsmart them and prove victorious in the end.

But I thought it would be interesting to write a deity that was basically broken, with the way for the protagonist to snatch their happy ending is to work within their insane framework.

It's funny you mentioned TT, because the way I see the Goddess is something like the GM themselves. The players have no way to destroy the GM and they must play according to his grand plans (or not, depending on their style). I guess it's possible to cause the GM to rage quit by ruining his campaign which is always funny but largely the players can't do much.

As powerful as the Goddess, there is still a being that is more powerful than her. A "One Above All" kind of character, who has the power to literally rewrite the rules of her world. But with all the power this person has, I doubt he wants to exercise his might since it would break the world he made.

If pissing the Goddess off so much that she Rage Quits the game is the best the player can accomplish then I at least hope we can see a picture of her crying like a little baby.

 

[Zetsuko]

Thank you, I greatly appreciate the feedback and the support.

What you described is usually the orthodox way to portray deities in fiction. Turning their own power into a weakness which makes sense for a story and especially in the context of an RPG. It can also feel satisfying to outsmart them and prove victorious in the end.

But I thought it would be interesting to write a deity that was basically broken, with the way for the protagonist to snatch their happy ending is to work within their insane framework.

It's funny you mentioned TT, because the way I see the Goddess is something like the GM themselves. The players have no way to destroy the GM and they must play according to his grand plans (or not, depending on their style). I guess it's possible to cause the GM to rage quit by ruining their campaign which is always funny but largely the players can't do much to oust them.

Ah, yeah, that's another way to go about that. You could say the goddess is pretty much the "I allow you to do what you do, you're not really doing it without me noticing" kind of being then...BUT I don't always GM, and when I'm a player, I know I can literally break the GMs jaw in awe sometimes literally just breaking an encounter.

I'm not usually the kind of person who breaks games just to piss of the GM, I just want the GM to know I can do it, and I choose not to.

This is a famous and known fact, but you can basically oneshot the most powerful being in DnD alone with a lvl 20 character, but for this fact to be fact, a player had to do it first and tell all the others. Just imagine the face of the first GM who faced their player oneshotting the Terrasque in one turn with no support from his team. Sure, the GM hipothetically holds all the power, and the GM could say "Well, the Terrasque says fuck and and a lightning falls on you before you can cast Simulacrum", but that's too metagamey, and a GM who does that usually finds he's left with no tables to GM, so oftentimes, when you outsmart your GM, you lot(The players and the GM) laugh it off together and as long as you don't abuse this nothing else has to happen.

The way I see the goddess, she can read your thoughts and all, but have you ever heard the term "Double-trapping"? If you google it you'll probably find the sport itself, but it's innerworks are similar to the term's. Basically, someone who's mmh...Let's say unaware, lays a trap for someone, under other person's command, but then lay another trap of their own and the first trap was a trap to actually be discovered, to actually lead the other person to stop it, but that's where the actual trap lies, where the person who's going to stop it to outsmart the first, falls in the true trap.

Let's say, for consistency, Hellele wants to screw the goddess over. She orders(or coerces) your character to carry an artifact that suposedly makes the goddess unable to read his thoughts. This doesn't work, but your character BELIEVES it works, so the goddess sees you think she can't read you. After this, she lays out a plan for you, seemingly a plan that would screw her(The goddess) over unless stopped. At the same time of this happening, Hellele lies another trap inside your character(For example, and I'm absoutely making this up cause I don't know the extent of the powers of the beings in the game, but let's say a magic unholy bomb that only affects divine beings and completely shuts off their magic temporarily, but has no effect on mundane beings.), so the Goddess takes your character to her realm to stop him from laying the trap, but then the bomb that was hidden inside him explodes and doesn't afect your character(since he's a mundane being, non-divine), and this allows your character to literally have the goddess powerless in front of you to actually trap or whatever they want. Double trap.

Anyways, I could go on with this but I guess you get what I mean, I like hiding my intentions from the master when I'm a player so he can't figure out a way to stop me, and this, I do by beggining to do something icky(Taking a powerful feat along with a powerful spell), but then when the GM goes out of their way to try and stop me with, for example, a being immune to this type of magic, I pull out my trap card, and double down by doing something actually broken, even compared to the first thing.

Just for clarification; I don't always do this, I don't have such a power boner to show I'm always the one in control, this would make playing with me actually unfun, and me a dickhead, and I don't want that. My friends take this as encouragement to try to double trap me when I'm being a GM, and we all have in on the fun(And if not, I'll double trap them into having fun...Jk jk.)

PS: Text wall, so I bolded the important parts.

 

[uyro]

So the whole plot of the game was Elena's fault huh... that's funny now i can't wait to see how bad the goddess will make fun of her for that

 

[Zetsuko]

So the whole plot of the game was Elena's fault huh... that's funny now i can't wait to see how bad the goddess will moke fun of her for that

You're not suposed to see, the game makes a quite decent job at making you unaware of what your character wouldn't know most of the time.

In fact, that already quite probably happened, the first thing she says when she comes is that the goddess was furious at her. Considering the narcicistic egomaniac she is, she probably called her fucking stupid or something like that.

 

[LucidAsaDream]

very good game a lot to do in it and the characters look nice too

 

[SharkVampire]

The plot with goddess reminded me a bit the Rance series, those who played will understand A bit of spoiler

Spoiler

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. But I also liked the fact that in Rance series the only person who new the truth was the Pope and everyone else was blindly follow her faith without knowing her true motives. In this game I was a bit of disappointed that the goddess gave us Carte blanche on everything they did so far. It's just my opinion, but I think the atmosphere before this conversations was more interesting. Where Mars had to be as careful as possible not to be exposed and the hero was a great danger. Now the atmosphere shifted upside down and there is no thrill anymore, Mars can just beat hero into submission and the priestess took her new mission, so she will approve most of his actions now. I think, if we didn't know about her plans until after Mars tried to destroy her balance and found out her true intentions, the intrigue and mystery about her figure would remain in the story. That's why I think that the intentions of divine powers should be reveled in the end of the story or only for person who is not the main character of the story. Otherwise it will eliminate felling that we have free will in our actions. There could be exceptions, of course, but in this particular story it feels that way.


The second heroine, Sera, was a favorite of mine; honestly, I hope that at least we don't see her fall so easily. To be honest, it was breaking my heart to do staff with her as well as with Elena despite the thing what she did, so again praise to you Nitrolith for excellent character building and the writing.

 

[nitrolith]

Ah, yeah, that's another way to go about that. You could say the goddess is pretty much the "I allow you to do what you do, you're not really doing it without me noticing" kind of being then...BUT I don't always GM, and when I'm a player, I know I can literally break the GMs jaw in awe sometimes literally just breaking an encounter.

I'm not usually the kind of person who breaks games just to piss of the GM, I just want the GM to know I can do it, and I choose not to.

This is a famous and known fact, but you can basically oneshot the most powerful being in DnD alone with a lvl 20 character, but for this fact to be fact, a player had to do it first and tell all the others. Just imagine the face of the first GM who faced their player oneshotting the Terrasque in one turn with no support from his team. Sure, the GM hipothetically holds all the power, and the GM could say "Well, the Terrasque says fuck and and a lightning falls on you before you can cast Simulacrum", but that's too metagamey, and a GM who does that usually finds he's left with no tables to GM, so oftentimes, when you outsmart your GM, you lot(The players and the GM) laugh it off together and as long as you don't abuse this nothing else has to happen.

The way I see the goddess, she can read your thoughts and all, but have you ever heard the term "Double-trapping"? If you google it you'll probably find the sport itself, but it's innerworks are similar to the term's. Basically, someone who's mmh...Let's say unaware, lays a trap for someone, under other person's command, but then lay another trap of their own and the first trap was a trap to actually be discovered, to actually lead the other person to stop it, but that's where the actual trap lies, where the person who's going to stop it to outsmart the first, falls in the true trap.

Let's say, for consistency, Hellele wants to screw the goddess over. She orders(or coerces) your character to carry an artifact that suposedly makes the goddess unable to read his thoughts. This doesn't work, but your character BELIEVES it works, so the goddess sees you think she can't read you. After this, she lays out a plan for you, seemingly a plan that would screw her(The goddess) over unless stopped. At the same time of this happening, Hellele lies another trap inside your character(For example, and I'm absoutely making this up cause I don't know the extent of the powers of the beings in the game, but let's say a magic unholy bomb that only affects divine beings and completely shuts off their magic temporarily, but has no effect on mundane beings.), so the Goddess takes your character to her realm to stop him from laying the trap, but then the bomb that was hidden inside him explodes and doesn't afect your character(since he's a mundane being, non-divine), and this allows your character to literally have the goddess powerless in front of you to actually trap or whatever they want. Double trap.

Anyways, I could go on with this but I guess you get what I mean, I like hiding my intentions from the master when I'm a player so he can't figure out a way to stop me, and this, I do by beggining to do something icky(Taking a powerful feat along with a powerful spell), but then when the GM goes out of their way to try and stop me with, for example, a being immune to this type of magic, I pull out my trap card, and double down by doing something actually broken, even compared to the first thing.

Just for clarification; I don't always do this, I don't have such a power boner to show I'm always the one in control, this would make playing with me actually unfun, and me a dickhead, and I don't want that. My friends take this as encouragement to try to double trap me when I'm being a GM, and we all have in on the fun(And if not, I'll double trap them into having fun...Jk jk.)

PS: Text wall, so I bolded the important parts.

Ah, I see, that's interesting. I'll keep that in mind.

So the whole plot of the game was Elena's fault huh... that's funny now i can't wait to see how bad the goddess will make fun of her for that

Not exactly, Mars doesn't see her as the culprit and is resorting to something like that so he can quickly get her under his control. He was also bluffing about the Hero's power, because even though it's within him he can't use it yet without Helelle's help.

The plot with goddess reminded me a bit the Rance series, those who played will understand A bit of spoiler

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

. But I also liked the fact that in Rance series the only person who new the truth was the Pope and everyone else was blindly follow her faith without knowing her true motives. In this game I was a bit of disappointed that the goddess gave us Carte blanche on everything they did so far. It's just my opinion, but I think the atmosphere before this conversations was more interesting. Where Mars had to be as careful as possible not to be exposed and the hero was a great danger. Now the atmosphere shifted upside down and there is no thrill anymore, Mars can just beat hero into submission and the priestess took her new mission, so she will approve most of his actions now. I think, if we didn't know about her plans until after Mars tried to destroy her balance and found out her true intentions, the intrigue and mystery about her figure would remain in the story. That's why I think that the intentions of divine powers should be reveled in the end of the story or only for person who is not the main character of the story. Otherwise it will eliminate felling that we have free will in our actions. There could be exceptions, of course, but in this particular story it feels that way.


The second heroine, Sera, was a favorite of mine; honestly, I hope that at least we don't see her fall so easily. To be honest, it was breaking my heart to do staff with her as well as with Elena despite the thing what she did, so again praise to you Nitrolith for excellent character building and the writing.

Yeah, I was aware of the risk of introducing the Goddess early but it's essential for the next phase of the story.
Although it looks like she gave him carte blanche, but it's a little more complicated than that.
The Goddess can see into the future, she knew picking Cecille will lead to this outcome, and is now giving Mars the freedom to choose just so she can potentially punish him for that freedom later.

Sera will be the last to get anything. If we're not counting Erin.

 

[Zetsuko]

Ah, I see, that's interesting. I'll keep that in mind.



Not exactly, Mars doesn't see her as the culprit and is resorting to something like that so he can quickly get her under his control. He was also bluffing about the Hero's power, because even though it's within him he can't use it yet without Helelle's help.




Yeah, I was aware of the risk of introducing the Goddess early but it's essential for the next phase of the story.
Although it looks like she gave him carte blanche, but it's a little more complicated than that.
The Goddess can see into the future, she knew picking Cecille will lead to this outcome, and is now giving Mars the freedom to choose just so she can potentially punish him for that freedom later.

Sera will be the last to get anything. If we're not counting Erin.

Art thou speaking about...Erina the heroine?

 

[okureta]

Erotic!!! Love art, although it does need some polish in places. Story on the other hand is, maybe, too good for this kind of game.
Also I have a question, do you intend to do hero part in the later part of development or soon(ish), and will you do training scenes like Sera and Cecille have, or just cutscenes?

 

[nitrolith]

Art thou speaking about...Erina the heroine?

Elena and Erina sound very similar. Interesting ...

Erotic!!! Love art, although it does need some polish in places. Story on the other hand is, maybe, too good for this kind of game.
Also I have a question, do you intend to do hero part in the later part of development or soon(ish), and will you do training scenes like Sera and Cecille have, or just cutscenes?

It will take some time. Next update will be the end of the build-up phase. The second phase of the story will be denser in H scenes and will have a stronger Netori feel as Mars' position in the party has shifted. 3rd phase will include femerin and resolutions. Although Erin's buildup will start in the second phase.

It will be mostly scenes but he might show up in the girls' minigames.

 

[okureta]

Elena and Erina sound very similar. Interesting ...



It will take some time. Next update will be the end of the build-up phase. The second phase of the story will be denser in H scenes and will have a stronger Netori feel as Mars' position in the party has shifted. 3rd phase will include femerin and resolutions. Although Erin's buildup will start in the second phase.

It will be mostly scenes but he might show up in the girls' minigames.

Ah so it will be much later. Thanks for the answer!
By the way, I forgot to ask (if it's not a secret) will Erin scenes include yaoi content or will you do a gender switch?

 

[Zetsuko]

Ah so it will be much later. Thanks for the answer!
By the way, I forgot to ask (if it's not a secret) will Erin scenes include yaoi content or will you do a gender switch?

 

[nitrolith]

Ah so it will be much later. Thanks for the answer!
By the way, I forgot to ask (if it's not a secret) will Erin scenes include yaoi content or will you do a gender switch?

Both. I want to make it an option in the game.

 

[okureta]

Both. I want to make it an option in the game.

Okay, this is ebin. Although I am afraid that by the way things are looking right now you might be overstreching yourself. There is Cecille, Sera, Lavinia, Erin(a), maybe you will do more Vi content that is not tied to other characters. Very ambitious, hope you make it, king.

 

[Dadidares]

hi dev you haven't thought of a scene where mars has the power to clone or another where mars can attack girls' dreams i just think it would be good

 

[nitrolith]

Okay, this is ebin. Although I am afraid that by the way things are looking right now you might be overstreching yourself. There is Cecille, Sera, Lavinia, Erin(a), maybe you will do more Vi content that is not tied to other characters. Very ambitious, hope you make it, king.

Yeah, for a first project I kinda overdid it there. But I only want to do one Netori focused game and I want to make it as best as I can.

hi dev you haven't thought of a scene where mars has the power to clone or another where mars can attack girls' dreams i just think it would be good

He doesn't really need to do that I guess. There will be new scenarios/gimmicks later.

 

[Zetsuko]

Was anyone else expecting more Cecille? With the way the last update ended it felt like we were going to go right back into more corruption content with her as we had just crossed a major threshold. Felt kind of anti-climatic to immediately move on (gameplay wise) and have no new animations with her.

Still a great update and a fantastic narrative reveal at the end! You really know how to leave the player wanting more. I was just a bit disappointed we didn't get new Cecille animations. I hope you're planning on going back to the sandbox style training sessions for each of the girls. It does feel like that's where we're heading, this was just an unexpected prelude?

It actually makes perfect sense to me.

You are literally, permanently bonded to her by the curse. The more you screw around, the more power she gains. This goes your way too, but as it is now, you have enough power to do your job, so you don't need no more(yet).

You are, as of now, making her get hornier and hornier with the passing days so she wants to fuck you more...And in the meantime, you're also corrupting another person. It's important.

 

[nitrolith]

Was anyone else expecting more Cecille? With the way the last update ended it felt like we were going to go right back into more corruption content with her as we had just crossed a major threshold. Felt kind of anti-climatic to immediately move on (gameplay wise) and have no new animations with her.

Still a great update and a fantastic narrative reveal at the end! You really know how to leave the player wanting more. I was just a bit disappointed we didn't get new Cecille animations. I hope you're planning on going back to the sandbox style training sessions for each of the girls. It does feel like that's where we're heading, this was just an unexpected prelude?

It's more like an intermission. I was thinking people are getting a little bit sick of Cecille.
Next update is more of Elena, but there will be a scene or two with Cecille. Depending on how much time I get.

 

[Zetsuko]

It's more like an intermission. I was thinking people are getting a little bit sick of Cecille.
Next update is more of Elena, but there will be a scene or two with Cecille. Depending on how much time I get.

I was indeed getting a bit sick of Cecille because of her attitude, but her new attitude is actually quite likable. Like, how she actually jokes and treats you like a frenemy and not an enemy.

It's nice that she -knows- she needs you but you don't need her, and I found it cute that she got all bitchy because you were literally not thinking about her at all, I found it genuinely funny through the whole interaction. xD

 

[cognu]

I enjoyed a lot Elena as a character, again pretty well written (Maybe a tad bit fast, but that's goddess intervention for no?).

She seems to be getting to the point that might fall the fastest and the hardest for Mars due to guilt, his past, and her desire to "heal" him. Well besides the actual sexual corruption, i mean (And oh boy the potential jelously that it might awaken after that in certain Priestess).

She has the potential to be one of, or even my favourite. I only need more of her to watch how the twist unravels and where the story goes.

Again, i understand that the cast got bigger, so i understand why Cecille got less sexual scenes in this update. I'm still loving her the most of the entire cast, just for how aware of how she is in reality even if she denies to the world, and i believe that when it matters she is the fiercest of the cast (primary in the mental aspect).
I truly loving her downfall to the Abyss, just to met the real Mars there and be able to take both away from it together if the story allow so.

I really, really liking a smart MC. So, so difficult to find a MC with actual agency and a well thought plan.
He seems to know where he has the advantage, and when he is just in disadvantage and those scenarios he is measuring the the situation like with the goddess, or what i think is him taking an extra effort to deny Cecille.
Maybe i'm reading too much his silence in the goddess scene? or while denying Cecille he is also protecting his secret, and getting deeper and deeper into her mind?,but hell he had the previous cold state of mind to do so, so i want to believe that.

The game is still in development, so its "natural" for the interactive scenes to be barebones, so hoping for them to improve. My opinion is that story should get priority, as it is now, so i like the devs approach.

Again, a pretty good update, and eager for more.