Honey Select or Daz3d?

[Northern_Blade]

I apologize this is a rudimentary question, but would you recommend going with Honeyselect or Daz3d? Aesthetics aside, I have a middle of the road computer, and limited funds (about $1000 to spend on producing this game at least for the next year or so)

I've heard Daz3d has much longer render times than Honey Select?
However, it seems daz3d has larger asset libraries? But it'll cost alot moresince most assets have to be purchased individually?
I've also heard technically it's not legal to use Honey Select for commercial products, so the chances of a future steam release is out of the question?

Am I correct in these understandings, and are there any other major concerns or pro/cons that I've missed. Thank you alot for your experience and help.

 

[GamesMtP]

I apologize this is a rudimentary question, but would you recommend going with Honeyselect or Daz3d? Aesthetics aside, I have a middle of the road computer, and limited funds (about $1000 to spend on producing this game at least for the next year or so)

I've heard Daz3d has much longer render times than Honey Select?
However, it seems daz3d has larger asset libraries? But it'll cost alot moresince most assets have to be purchased individually?
I've also heard technically it's not legal to use Honey Select for commercial products, so the chances of a future steam release is out of the question?

I'll give you some kind of answer for the Daz side only since I've never used HS.

Daz needs a Nvidia card and preferably a lot of VRAM on it. If you don't have a Nvidia card, don't consider Daz. Even with a Nvidia card, I'm guessing your card is pretty average and don't have a lot (24Gb+) of Vram, so you'll have to fiddle a bit with it to make renders fit in the memory.

Daz has a billion assets. Some are great, and easy to work with. Some are dogshit. I'd say never buy anything you didn't pirate to try out first. It's a lot less headache than trying to refund bad products. Also, I obviously don't support piracy at all!

 

[Northern_Blade]

Thanks alot Nicke! Appreciate your ansewr. Yeah my graphics card does not have 25Gb+ of Vram. And thanks for explaining the Daz assets side of things.

Is there a way to say import the Daz characters into Unreal and render it there? I'm quite new to Unreal as well, but wondering if I could circumvent the lack of Vram by importing elsewhere for final render (mostly Unreal, but perhaps Blender).

 

[GamesMtP]

Thanks alot Nicke! Appreciate your ansewr. Yeah my graphics card does not have 25Gb+ of Vram. And thanks for explaining the Daz assets side of things.

Is there a way to say import the Daz characters into Unreal and render it there? I'm quite new to Unreal as well, but wondering if I could circumvent the lack of Vram by importing elsewhere for final render (mostly Unreal, but perhaps Blender).

You can work pretty well with 12Gb VRAM too. You're just going to have to reduce some texture's sizes, think a bit more about what you put in a scene, things like that. The less VRAM, the worse it gets.

As for porting to unreal, there's this:

You must be registered to see the links

I have zero experience with it. It says it's smooth and easy so it's probably a complete pain in the ass to work with

 

[Northern_Blade]

You can work pretty well with 12Gb VRAM too. You're just going to have to reduce some texture's sizes, think a bit more about what you put in a scene, things like that. The less VRAM, the worse it gets.

As for porting to unreal, there's this:

You must be registered to see the links

I have zero experience with it. It says it's smooth and easy so it's probably a complete pain in the ass to work with

I see. Maybe it would make sense to start a game with smaller textures, and if it gets popular upgrade to higher rez textures.

As for the daz to Unreal bridge, haha, true say

Thanks Nicke!

 

[GamesMtP]

I see. Maybe it would make sense to start a game with smaller textures, and if it gets popular upgrade to higher rez textures.

As for the daz to Unreal bridge, haha, true say

Thanks Nicke!

If you do go the Daz route and find that your scenes won't fit in your memory:
https://f95zone.to/threads/scene-optimizer-mar-2019.9973/

Don't worry about the original textures, most assets only come with one resolution. Reducing them with this nifty little script is the most common way to reduce their size. But man, if you've never used Daz, you got a long way to wander

 

[Northern_Blade]

If you do go the Daz route and find that your scenes won't fit in your memory:
https://f95zone.to/threads/scene-optimizer-mar-2019.9973/

Don't worry about the original textures, most assets only come with one resolution. Reducing them with this nifty little script is the most common way to reduce their size. But man, if you've never used Daz, you got a long way to wander

That's a useful link! Gonna bookmark that.

Yeah I've never used Daz before. I'm sure there's gonna be a long learning curve. I heard it's not as hard to pickup as Blender, but oh well, the journey's half the fun right lol. Thanks again Nicke!

 

[BitingTheBullet]

If render times is something that's stopping you then you can either go with HS or you can use the in-built Filament PBR engine in daz.

The filament engine works just like modern gaming engines when it comes to visuals which means you can render things instantly. But you need to tune your entire workflow around it and even edit a lot of the textures maps for characters.
This is the official daz page for more info:

You must be registered to see the links

The best thing with using this method is that you have access to the same library of assets. All you have to do is change some of the shaders to work in filament (such as hair and windows). Another thing is that you can use a lower end GPU without affecting the visuals.
And if you want, you can always do postwork on the images to elevate em even further.

If you want to go with Iray instead, then a 3060 is a great entry level card mainly for it's 12 GB vram. That way you don't have to splurge too much too early.

 

[Northern_Blade]

If render times is something that's stopping you then you can either go with HS or you can use the in-built Filament PBR engine in daz.

The filament engine works just like modern gaming engines when it comes to visuals which means you can render things instantly. But you need to tune your entire workflow around it and even edit a lot of the textures maps for characters.
This is the official daz page for more info:

You must be registered to see the links

The best thing with using this method is that you have access to the same library of assets. All you have to do is change some of the shaders to work in filament (such as hair and windows). Another thing is that you can use a lower end GPU without affecting the visuals.
And if you want, you can always do postwork on the images to elevate em even further.

If you want to go with Iray instead, then a 3060 is a great entry level card mainly for it's 12 GB vram. That way you don't have to splurge too much too early.

*furiously taking notes* Thanks alot! I definitely have a pretty entry level graphic card, so render time/capability is a big concern. Gonna read through the daz page and do some experiments.

Thanks BitingTheBullet! This is gold.

 

[BitingTheBullet]

*furiously taking notes* Thanks alot! I definitely have a pretty entry level graphic card, so render time/capability is a big concern. Gonna read through the daz page and do some experiments.

Thanks BitingTheBullet! This is gold.

No worries.
From personal experience, I'd highly recommend getting an image editor (Photoshop, GIMP, etc.) and edit the textures to add more detail/coloration to them. The filament engine mainly makes use of the Diffuse Textures, Diffuse Overlay, Normal Textures and the Bump Textures from what I've tested (best to read the documentation for more info) which means that translucency and some other maps are left unused.

This asset is a damn near fundamental for working with Filament:

You must be registered to see the links

- Shaders for Hair


The

You must be registered to see the links

are a good place to learn more from other creators

 

[MissFortune]

I never see this said in these types of threads, but be aware that going Illusion will limit your avenues for monetization. You'll be limited to Patreon and SubStar. And that's working under the assumption that whoever buys the rights to a sinking Illusion doesn't go on a DMCA massacre and pop every single big game using it. I suppose Itch falls under this, too, but who knows what's going on there day to day. Leafo does things how he wants and whenever he wants to at any given moment.

That means no Steam or GOG, which are going to be the real big money draws if you play your cards right. You're cool with Daz here, which is why a majority of AVNs use it as opposed to Illusion. But it's also the reason you see a lot of trash on Steam giving bad looks to actual good work by devs. So, take that how you will.

 

[Northern_Blade]

I never see this said in these types of threads, but be aware that going Illusion will limit your avenues for monetization. You'll be limited to Patreon and SubStar. And that's working under the assumption that whoever buys the rights to a sinking Illusion doesn't go on a DMCA massacre and pop every single big game using it. I suppose Itch falls under this, too, but who knows what's going on there day to day. Leafo does things how he wants and whenever he wants to at any given moment.

That means no Steam or GOG, which are going to be the real big money draws if you play your cards right. You're cool with Daz here, which is why a majority of AVNs use it as opposed to Illusion. But it's also the reason you see a lot of trash on Steam giving bad looks to actual good work by devs. So, take that how you will.

Thanks MissFortune. Yeah I actually was wondering that myself. It seems Honeyselect is kind of in a legal gray area, and Steam is off the table. Plus the risk of future lawsuits. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Maybe I played too much Eternum, but I've grown really fond of the honey select look. Especially it's color palette and "warm" almost 3D anime feel. Maybe there's a way to play with Shaders to give a similar feel to Daz.

 

[BitingTheBullet]

Thanks MissFortune. Yeah I actually was wondering that myself. It seems Honeyselect is kind of in a legal gray area, and Steam is off the table. Plus the risk of future lawsuits. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Maybe I played too much Eternum, but I've grown really fond of the honey select look. Especially it's color palette and "warm" almost 3D anime feel. Maybe there's a way to play with Shaders to give a similar feel to Daz.

You can chage the hdri image to get a similar feel or go completely manual with spotlights and whatnot.
As for hs, calling it a legal grey area is a terrible outlook. The devs/publishers just aren't as tight about it.
Treat it like any other game: if you make VNs using bethesda's rpgs, expect them to come for you even if you're on patreon.
Daz on the other hand allows you to use the renders (specifically the renders and not the assets) for commercial use including games.

 

[MissFortune]

Thanks MissFortune. Yeah I actually was wondering that myself. It seems Honeyselect is kind of in a legal gray area, and Steam is off the table. Plus the risk of future lawsuits. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Maybe I played too much Eternum, but I've grown really fond of the honey select look. Especially it's color palette and "warm" almost 3D anime feel. Maybe there's a way to play with Shaders to give a similar feel to Daz.

Gray area is a pretty apt term for it, it's been fine for quite a while, but the ground got a lot shakier after Illusion went under. If that's the look you're after, the HS might be the best choice. Just be ready to have the noose tightened at any moment, so to speak.

Alternatively, if you're willing to drop some time into learning it, Blender excels with more stylized figures/characters and comes with a far more refined animations suite (among its superior physics). It's tough and would take some time, but might be another option to look into.

 

[Northern_Blade]

No worries.
From personal experience, I'd highly recommend getting an image editor (Photoshop, GIMP, etc.) and edit the textures to add more detail/coloration to them. The filament engine mainly makes use of the Diffuse Textures, Diffuse Overlay, Normal Textures and the Bump Textures from what I've tested (best to read the documentation for more info) which means that translucency and some other maps are left unused.

This asset is a damn near fundamental for working with Filament:

You must be registered to see the links

- Shaders for Hair


The

You must be registered to see the links

are a good place to learn more from other creators

That's a great idea! I'm still very new to Daz/3D production in general, and to be honest many pieces of the pipeline are unknown and confusing to me. But this makes sense. gonna bookmark this thread and return to it after I've mastered the basics lol.

You can chage the hdri image to get a similar feel or go completely manual with spotlights and whatnot.
As for hs, calling it a legal grey area is a terrible outlook. The devs/publishers just aren't as tight about it.
Treat it like any other game: if you make VNs using bethesda's rpgs, expect them to come for you even if you're on patreon.
Daz on the other hand allows you to use the renders (specifically the renders and not the assets) for commercial use including games.

True. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe adjusting HDRI is just for the color? One thing that personally I like about HS is the models themselves. I find Daz models to lean more towards realism, whereas HS models lean more towards a stylized anime look. Of course, the legal issue means HS is off the table as far as VN production goes, so I'll probably have to experiment with other ways to make the models look the way I want
(Side tangent, I recently switched away from Unity exactly to avoid potential future legal/royalty issues. And HS is far more problematic than Unity)

 

[BitingTheBullet]

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You can use the hdri as a background too. You won't be able to change the color but you can just change the hdri image itself to get a different/desired color.

You can find models in daz and other vendor sites that lean more towards the anime-look.

Here are a few:

You must be registered to see the links

with some anime assets

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You must be registered to see the links

- Male

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You must be registered to see the links

- Male

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You can also mix and match the assets to get a more unique character and then apply skin materials from a different figure.

 

[Northern_Blade]

You can use the hdri as a background too. You won't be able to change the color but you can just change the hdri image itself to get a different/desired color.

You can find models in daz and other vendor sites that lean more towards the anime-look.

Here are a few:

You must be registered to see the links

with some anime assets

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You must be registered to see the links

- Male

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You must be registered to see the links

- Male

You must be registered to see the links

- Female

You can also mix and match the assets to get a more unique character and then apply skin materials from a different figure.

Thanks alot Bullet! Some of those models might work with some tweaking and adjustments. Gonna do some more exploratoins and digging.

Thanks for your help, and good luck on your projects!