How do developers like Philly_Games and DrPinkCake get such detailed Daz3D renders?

[joanly]

I've been watching Daz3D tutorials on how to increase render quality for my upcoming game, and over the weeks my renders have really improved. Here's some of the things I've learned:

- Use the highest resolution skin maps you can find (Not all Daz3D models are the same quality)
- The importance of lighting (Certain angles bring out details with 'dramatic lighting')
- Set pixel filter to Mitchell (the lower the pixel filter radius, the sharper the image, up until you get anti-aliasing problems)
- Render at 4K and downscale to 1080P (it's hotly debated whether this works - I personally don't see a difference in quality)
- Change mesh resolution and add more subdivisions

And yet... I still haven't reached the level of some of the most popular adult visual novels using Daz3D.

For example, here's one of my renders:



A render from Being A DIK:




They're still not nearly as sharp and detailed as in popular games like City of Broken Dreamers or Being A DIK. I've noticed there's far more visible detail not just in their skin, but in the textures across the entire scene. Does anyone have any tips or insider knowledge on how they're achieving such clarity and detail?

 

[Penumbral Evanescence]

They're still not nearly as sharp and detailed

I'm not nearly a subject matter expert in 3D modelling and rendering character model assets, however, I found the following render guide to be useful in terms of sharp render tips if that was what you were mainly after.

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- Set pixel filter to Mitchell (the lower the pixel filter radius, the sharper the image, up until you get anti-aliasing problems)

Also, not sure if you had previously experimented with this or not, but the guide did mention not to change the pixel filter setting from its original default "Gaussian" option. And to keep it set at Gaussian instead. As all three options (i.e., gaussian, mitchell, and lanczos) are pretty much the same in terms of pixel filtering effectiveness.

Moreover, I am unsure as to whether this might be a useful tip or not to be mindful of, but the guide also mentioned to refrain from using post denoiser if you aim to create a sharper render. As using post denoiser typically smooths out the image by decreasing the amount of noise present on the model. Therefore, if there is not much noise present, this essentially cancels out the level of and/or the degree of the sharpness effect so to speak.

Overall, I think you are on the right track, but you would just need to play around and experiment with the pixel filtering radius settings more, and try to strike a balance between image sharpness and the number of samples needed to decrease the amount of noise (i.e., without having to rely on denoising as much).

 

[MissFortune]

I don't think the success of BaD lies within its renders. In my opinion, at least. I find his/their renders quite flat, and if you look closely, you can see the bump/normals are turned way down, giving the girls something of a barbie doll-like plasticness (not to mention the vacuum clothing, but that's definitely more of a Daz problem than an artist problem.). In the example image, and even your own to some degree (not sure if it's the case for either, though.), it looks as if there's either a fairly large emissive plane somewhere above - or perhaps having the roof or another object being turned into an emissive. Though, I honestly prefer your render to the example given. It's softer and the lighting has more dynamic to it. It is already at a VN-level, getting that PhillyGames look isn't something that happens overnight. It takes practice, understanding of principles (in lighting, photography/videography, and framing.), with a whole lot of patience. That said, in my opinion, the most important part of getting those looks (sans a fairly beefy PC) is lighting.

Lighting. Lighting. Lighting. The type of lighting being used is often what extracts the detail from the skin (short of the skin being high quality itself.). The brighter the light(s), the more likely you are to wash out the skin's detail. The more controlled/natural the lighting, the more detail will be brought out. If you look at PhillyGames work, you'll see a lot of contrast play in all of his lighting. There's a lot of shadow weaving with the light, just like real life would. It puts you there. It's that understanding of light and shadows, and where they fall, that sets his work apart from the pack.

One thing your own render seems to lack is postwork (could be wrong, but that's just what I'm gathering from the render itself.). The camera raw filter in Photoshop is a powerful tool for renders that need a bit of help post-render. It can make a bad render look good, and a good render look great, and so forth. Sometimes it's easier to add that extra 'oomph' via Photoshop/GIMP/AE/PP/etc. than it is to do it in Daz (such as lens flares or smoke, for example.). Like so:



Getting detail out of a render is a mix of lighting, skin, and postwork at the end of the day. The skin can only do so much when the lighting is bad, and vice versa. It's hard to tell you where to improve without knowing what you're lighting scenes with and how you're setting them up, in all honesty. Based on your shown render here, I'd say avoid the big (which will create a lot of light damage more than it won't), single lights and go for multiple dimmer lights (spotlights are preferable for some, others prefer planes. it's up to the dev themselves.). Three-Point lighting should be the focus (assuming you haven't already read up on that.), then study up on other alternative forms of lighting and see how you can apply them to Daz.

As for Denoising. Refrain unless your render needs it as this is where detail will typically be lost in an otherwise high-quality render. Daz's built in denoiser is particularly bad. If you need to denoise renders, I'd recommend looking into Intel's AI denoiser as I've had the best experience with it, but there's also Nvidia's and Topaz's own to look at, as well. You'll lose detail regardless of how high quality your render is if you denoise, but sometimes it's entirely necessary.

Use the highest resolution skin maps you can find (Not all Daz3D models are the same quality)

Not all are created equal, but most Genesis 8 and 8.1 are going to be relatively high quality, especially if they're purchased from the Daz store.

The importance of lighting (Certain angles bring out details with 'dramatic lighting')

Unless it's a one-off portrait, all of the lights pointed at your figure (and even the ones that aren't), should be at an angle. There's obviously exceptions, but generally, point a light flat at a figure/model will wash them out.

Set pixel filter to Mitchell (the lower the pixel filter radius, the sharper the image, up until you get anti-aliasing problems)

I've never used this, and playing with it right now, I'm not seeing the benefits of it. Though, I'm assuming this might be the caught of the cut-pastey looking right arm on your render.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I don't think the success of BaD lies within its renders. In my opinion, at least. I find his/their renders quite flat,
and if you look closely, you can see the bump/normals are turned way down, giving the girls something of a barbie doll-like plasticness (not to mention the vacuum clothing, but that's definitely more of a Daz problem than an artist problem.).

I totally agree with this. What make BaD renders stand out is their brightfulness, not their effective quality.
They looks better because they are colorful, what make them feel more living. But there's a little more quality in OP render. It's just that it looks dull because the colors for the girl herself aren't bright enough, especially in regard of the background.

 

[joanly]

I found the following render guide to be useful in terms of sharp render tips if that was what you were mainly after.

Awesome guide! Interesting that there's little difference between Mitchell and Gaussian, as I thought there was, but in retrospect that may have just been because I was also playing with Pixel Filter radius at the same time.

It is already at a VN-level, getting that PhillyGames look isn't something that happens overnight.

Glad to hear my renders are acceptable! I definitely agree that it takes time and skill to get to Philly_Games level of quality. I just want my renders as good as possible from the get-go, because if I suddenly get better at renders mid-game, players would notice the change, and it might ruin the immersion. Consistency seems as important as quality when it comes to graphics. For example, if BaDIK renders suddenly started looking like Philly_Games renders mid-game, players would be thrown off.

I totally agree with this. What make BaD renders stand out is their brightfulness, not their effective quality.
They looks better because they are colorful, what make them feel more living. But there's a little more quality in OP render. It's just that it looks dull because the colors for the girl herself aren't bright enough, especially in regard of the background.

You're right! I guess it is a lot more colorful than mine. Thankfully, that can be easily fixed.

Here's a new render with adjustments based on the suggestions made so far:
- More dynamic lighting (added a volumetric lighting source on the ceiling, tinted to give it a 'party' vibe) - Credit: MissFortune
- Better color (increased saturation by 50%) - Credit: anne O'nymous
- Downscaled from 2K instead of 4K - Credit: MissFortune
- No post-denoiser - Credit: Penumbral Evanescence
- Postwork: Raw Camera Filter in Photoshop to increase clarity and contrast - Credit: MissFortune




Of course, there's a couple of improvements to be made. For one, there's a bit of noise in the dark areas that can probably be fixed with more sampling. For another, I'll need to change the environment map, as you can see out the windows that the night sky looks more gray than black.

If anyone else has more suggestions, I'm all ears!

 

[Meaning Less]

And yet... I still haven't reached the level of some of the most popular adult visual novels using Daz3D.

The main difference is that you are lacking proper illumination in your character, simple as that.

You can see that the background is well lit, but the character is still very dark making her look out of place.
The second picture probably has a light source aligned with the camera much like photographers do in real life studio pictures.

Illumination is very important to make scenes look more realistic.

 

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Photoshop

 

[StrongPanda]

Stopped by to revive and say this is a very helpful post thread... Thanks!

 

[Sumatra 3D]

Stopped by to revive and say this is a very helpful post thread... Thanks!

Same. I always wondered how devs of titles like Acquainted, Shale Hill Secrets, The Grey Dream, Life in Santa County, Summer Heat and such achieved such beautiful renders. Now I know it's mostly postwork and lighting.

Someday, I too shall produce renders like YunoGasai and Mr. Vargas.

p.s. MissFortune also has awesome renders.