How hard would it be for me to learn daz?

[noping123]

This seemed like the best place to post this, apologizes if it's not.

Little background: I have a couple ideas for a few games(primarily VNs) (One i've already started writing and fleshing out. a couple more rattling around in my head. ) Writing isn't an issue for me at all - neither the actual story creation, or the actual writing (like dialogue, choices, paths, etc).

I also have programming covered. While I've never worked with renpy and would have to learn it, I have enough programming background that it won't be too difficult or time-consuming.

The 3rd piece however..... I personally might be the actual worst artist alive today. I know when people say they suck, it means they're not good but they're exaggerating - no, I legitimately have trouble drawing stick figures. I downloaded daz and took a quick look at it, hoping it would mostly be just copy pasting assets into place and adjusting them to my liking, but after looking at it a bit, it seems like a lot more either flat out using stock stuff, or a lot of photoshopping, which I will definitely fall very very short in.

It's possible I just haven't delved into it enough to figure out if it's something I can really do or not, but rather than spend possibly weeks trying to figure it out myself, I thought I'd try and ask those who may be able to give me a little more insight.

Basically what I'm wondering is, would I, as someone with less artistic ability than a chimpanzee on meth, ever be capable of using daz properly to make things that aren't blandly stock and don't look terrible, or should I just abandon ship on that plan now and figure something else out?

Or rephrased I guess, how much of it is putting together puzzle pieces in just the right way, and how much involves actual artistry (which I will forever fail miserably at)

 

[sillyrobot]

I am in exactly the same boat so I am curious what responses you will get!

 

[UpAfterTen]

I started using Daz seriously last month. Before that I'd used Poser long ago when the end result wasn't nearly as nice as what's coming out of renders these days.

I've studied art a bit. I can draw cartoons, but nothing fancy. I can sculpt things that look pretty damn realistic. I've studied anatomy and positioning, and that's really come in handy with posing things in Daz. Getting a feel for what looks natural is important.

As for the software itself, it's not terribly complicated once you start learning it. A few YouTube tutorials and you should be off to the races. I found it pretty darn easy compared to learning Photoshop, though of course it's one of those things where getting the hang of the basics takes a few hours and really learning it takes much longer.

But if you sit down with the stuff and work through some tutorials it's really not that difficult to get up and running. The biggest thing you'll be doing, if you're anything like me, is spending time Googling to get around some of the program's "idiosyncrasies" that pop up from time to time.

 

[noping123]

I'm gonna preface this: A lot of what I say sometimes SOUNDS sarcastic, even though its meant to be sincere. I realized this after i started replying, so I decided to preface.

Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't really help me much. I guess my question was worded wrong really, not learn to use, but ACTUALLY use.

You have an art background, so it'd be a lot more learning the program and then applying what you know. Actually learning the program wouldn't be too much of an issue, it may take time (Took me a while to figure out how to use sony vegas, but now I can do wonders with it) - the issue for me is how much actual artwork is involved (and that is what I currently don't know, but so far it looks like a lot more than I had originally anticipated). That aspect is pretty much a no-go.

My expectation going in, was that everything would be pre-drawn and I'd have to figure out how to piece it all together, but the more I look into it, it seems like while you can get some pre-made assets, any level of customizability you really want, you'd have to do yourself.

But, I could be wrong on that, I just haven't worked with it enough to know yet.

 

[Egglock]

I think you're misunderstanding what Daz3D is. It's not a one-stop solution to art. It designed to remove the technical side of digital art, i.e modeling, rigging, texturing, morph targets ect. Be it at the discretion of those who make these models. If you want something outside of what Daz3D has to offer, you'll have to make them yourself (actually knowing how to do 3D modeling). This isn't to say that Daz3D lacks the customization, because it doesn't when it comes to model variety. You have an endless possibility, in the forms of morphs, sliders in Daz3D that you move left and right to create the character of choice. Can't get any easier than that honestly.

I don't understand your question about art, are you asking what makes art, art? As in how to make a piece stand out? How to make it appeal to someone, how to make it look good?

 

[watdapakisdis]

It is extremely easy to learn how to use Daz Studio if you're just going to pose figures, setup lights, fix cameras, render, etc.

Going under the hood is extremely difficult since Daz tutorials suck ass. Good luck learning advance topics like rigging, geometry editor, shader mixer, weight maps, scripting, etc.

 

[noping123]

I think you're misunderstanding what Daz3D is. It's not a one-stop solution to art. It designed to remove the technical side of digital art, i.e modeling, rigging, texturing, morph targets ect. Be it at the discretion of those who make these models. If you want something outside of what Daz3D has to offer, you'll have to make them yourself (actually knowing how to do 3D modeling). This isn't to say that Daz3D lacks the customization, because it doesn't when it comes to model variety. You have an endless possibility, in the forms of morphs, sliders in Daz3D that you move left and right to create the character of choice. Can't get any easier than that honestly.

I don't understand your question about art, are you asking what makes art, art? As in how to make a piece stand out? How to make it appeal to someone, how to make it look good?

This answer helps, ty.

Yea, I was misunderstanding what it did. I thought it would actually help with the 3d modeling, (actually creating them). Like I said before, no art experience and I suck at it, so I'm sorta lost when it comes to that aspect of stuff.

Here's what I *thought* daz would do (having never used it, or any other similar program before). I thought it would be something that would provide say... Ok here's a bank of 3d models. Here's a bank of various body parts. (a hair bank, an eye bank, an arm bank, a nose bank, etc etc etc) Whatever other various features you can think of. Go ahead and piece them together and create an entire person using the various 3d model parts that exist. Here's a bank of background images. (Here's a cup. or here's a wall. Or here's a book. Or here's a bookcase. etc etc etc). These 3d models already exist, and now you can use this program to piece them together however you want, edit the morphology of it if you like, and design the animation. That was what I thought it was. Now it's looking more like "hey if you want this stuff, you gotta design it yourself we'll give you some barebones basics, but GL on the rest". Or maybe not, idk.

When I say art, what I mean is..... so, when you have anything, 2d drawings, 3d models, painting on canvas, or chalk on a sidewalk, at some point, someone has to actually draw it. That's all I mean, the actual act of drawing it in the first place. (And yea technically you can use stuff like vector points to create a lot of stuff without drawing, but we won't get into that).

Basically what I thought it was, was like.... build-a-bear workshop. They provide all the parts, and you piece it together however you'd like. Between what I've seen in the program and the answers I'm getting, it seems more like they're providing the workshop to build it, but you have to provide all the parts yourself. That's something I'll never be capable of, so I guess I'll have to abandon those plans afterall. Ty though.

 

[MissFortune]

Basically what I thought it was, was like.... build-a-bear workshop. They provide all the parts, and you piece it together however you'd like. Between what I've seen in the program and the answers I'm getting, it seems more like they're providing the workshop to build it, but you have to provide all the parts yourself. That's something I'll never be capable of, so I guess I'll have to abandon those plans afterall. Ty though.

In a lot of ways, that's an apt title. You can buy (or pirate) the assets, clothes/shoes/etc., and even environments, then you more or less click and everything goes onto the figure. Then you can pose them, either manually or via a pose package. Where it starts getting tricky, as mentioned, is getting good lighting, rigging, and so forth. As far as the assets, clothes, props, etc. go, you aren't technically making them yourself. Just downloading/buying and installing them. I mean, you can make them, but you'd obviously need experience in other programs beyond Daz.

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

I don't know what kind of an answer you're expecting. But unless you download the thing, install it, watch some beginner tutorials and then start playing around with it, you're not going to get anywhere. From what it sounds like, you don't even know what the program is or what it does and the very first thing you did was post this thread, before doing any of the above.

Now that being said, Daz is NOT a 3d modelling software. It lets you import 3d assets, and you can pose them, position them, you can play around with the materials on the objects. It also provides "morphs", which are essentially sliders, that let you change certain aspects of the models. Like a bigger nose, longer legs etc. You can download/buy the assets, the morphs, clothing assets, and everything else either from the official website or just download it from here (pirate them). You don't actually have to do anything yourself.

So there is little to no actual know-how of art required. I guess you can argue that there is still SOME art involved, like the posing, the lighting, the angles, so cinematography basically. But I think you'll be fine unless your art-phobia is too far gone.

EDIT: Just remembered that you don't even have to do the posing yourself. You can download pose packs that come with poses of all sorts. You just have to apply them to the models and you're done. Of course you might have to fine tune them to suit your specific needs. But it doesn't get any easier than this. So just install the damn thing and get on with it.

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

When I say art, what I mean is..... so, when you have anything, 2d drawings, 3d models, painting on canvas, or chalk on a sidewalk, at some point, someone has to actually draw it. That's all I mean, the actual act of drawing it in the first place. (And yea technically you can use stuff like vector points to create a lot of stuff without drawing, but we won't get into that).

There is no "drawing" when it comes to 3d. You just have to hit the render button.

 

[noping123]

I don't know what kind of an answer you're expecting. But unless you download the thing, install it, watch some beginner tutorials and then start playing around with it, you're not going to get anywhere. From what it sounds like, you don't even know what the program is or what it does and the very first thing you did was post this thread, before doing any of the above.

Actually I was expecting (or hoping for) exactly the answers I got, so I'm appreciative. you are wrong though, I did spend about 2 hours messing around with it before coming here, and it took me about that long to figure out that'd it take weeks - possibly months - to really fully understand using it the way I'd want to, so I decided to come here first and ask ppl with experience before I started actually investing time into it. I just don't want to invest that sort of time if it's something I know would be beyond my abilities.

Actually the first thing I did after spending a couple hours toying with the program, was look around for assets. (either ones you pay for, or ones you...... don't). All I found right off the bat was a bunch of... I guess you could say too narrow? As in they were already too specifically created? Idk how else to describe it. To be fair i didn't look very much, but it was about that point I decided to pause and seek advice first before going further.

So there is little to no actual know-how of art required. I guess you can argue that there is still SOME art involved, like the posing, the lighting, the angles, so cinematography basically. But I think you'll be fine unless your art-phobia is too far gone.

That listed there, is the stuff I'm comfortable doing, but that's about it. After reading a few replies, I think my actual question should have been "Are the assets I'd want actually available, or would I have to create them". That seems to be what I was really asking, I just didn't know enough to ask it that way. It looks like the answer is, most of them exist, you have to purchase or pirate them though - they're not provided. And if you want anything hyper-specific you need another program to create it yourself.

On a personal note though, please try not to be so hostile. I'm just trying to understand and learn, sorry I'm not doing things the way you expect them to be done, but the aggressive attitude is very off-putting. I'm just trying to get more information so I understand better what I'm getting myself into, and I got a lot of that, so thank you, but "just install the damn thing" isn't really necessary.

 

[Egglock]

Basically what I thought it was, was like.... build-a-bear workshop.

Well in a way Daz3D is like that. It is a build-a-bod workshop. Daz3D provides the assets and you piece them together (through morphs) in the way that you find pleasing. That's the beauty of Daz3D is that you don't have to have the technical skills of a 3D artist, Daz3D handles all of that for you. Granted there are limitations as to what you can do, if you wanted a certain hair style, a piece of clothing, or a style of arch-viz, you are at the mercy of Daz3D and the assets it provides. If they don't have it then yes you'll have to create them yourself in such software as Blender.

As far as the art itself, once you're happy with your scene, it's as easy as clicking the "render" button in Daz3D, wait and see your results. Of course getting to that final render is another topic in itself. But for the most part if you lack the skills as a 3D artist, Daz3D is a good starting point. There's enough there to give you the general idea of what goes into 3D art, without overwhelming you with all the technical skills that goes into making it.

 

[Deleted member 1536527]

Actually I was expecting (or hoping for) exactly the answers I got, so I'm appreciative. you are wrong though, I did spend about 2 hours messing around with it before coming here, and it took me about that long to figure out that'd it take weeks - possibly months - to really fully understand using it the way I'd want to, so I decided to come here first and ask ppl with experience before I started actually investing time into it. I just don't want to invest that sort of time if it's something I know would be beyond my abilities.

Yes in the beginning it can be intimidating. But the way I recommend is to watch a beginner series that covers the basics. After that you will be comfortable with at least the UI and know what is what and where it is. After that you can start moving around a bit more freely. I'd say in about a week you'll get comfortable with it.

It looks like the answer is, most of them exist, you have to purchase or pirate them though - they're not provided. And if you want anything hyper-specific you need another program to create it yourself.

Not really. Morphs allow quite a great deal of customization. Just get the standard Genesis 8 starter essentials (its basically a starter female and male model, very bland looking, and basic materials), then after that you can download morph packs for genesis 8. The degree of control you get is very decent. you customize the model to your liking and make her look like pretty much anything. Unless you want something COMPLETELY unique. Like a new kind of creature or something, you're gonna have to look around a bit to find it, but I doubt you'll need that degree of specificity.

All I found right off the bat was a bunch of... I guess you could say too narrow? As in they were already too specifically created?

Yes most of the models you're going to find are going to be specific to how the creator made them. But you can still modify them quite a lot. Again using morphs. I have so many fucking morph packs installed I don't even know how many, so I just have hundreds of sliders for every little thing. The way I go about it is I picture what kind of a character I want, I try to look for something that is in the ball park, like a tall busty lady, or small skinny character anything like that, after that I just customize it to my liking. Get the hair assets, the clothes, tattoos, jewelry etc. (And also Daz has some very basic clothes simulation in it as well, so you can make the clothes fit more accurately or drape.)

On a personal note though, please try not to be so hostile. I'm just trying to understand and learn, sorry I'm not doing things the way you expect them to be done, but the aggressive attitude is very off-putting. I'm just trying to get more information so I understand better what I'm getting myself into, and I got a lot of that, so thank you, but "just install the damn thing" isn't really necessary.

Yeah sorry about that, its on me. Sometimes I see some posts and I see the hesitant attitude and what I perceive as "don't-want-to-put-in-the-time-and-trying-to-look-for-an-excuse-to-not-learn-it" thing that ticks me off. Maybe I perceived incorrectly. However, I'd still recommend watching some beginner tutorials, understanding the basics, and after that you'll become more proficient at it. You ARE going to have to put in the time obviously, but its not as long as you're guessing. And also the basic point I am tying to get across is that the "hurdles" that you think are there or might be there don't actually exist. Its really easy to learn and to use. Anyone can do it.

 

[UpAfterTen]

You have an art background, so it'd be a lot more learning the program and then applying what you know. Actually learning the program wouldn't be too much of an issue, it may take time (Took me a while to figure out how to use sony vegas, but now I can do wonders with it) - the issue for me is how much actual artwork is involved (and that is what I currently don't know, but so far it looks like a lot more than I had originally anticipated). That aspect is pretty much a no-go.

To get started in Daz3D you don't really need an art background. Honestly studying photography helped me a hell of a lot more with Daz than any time I spent on digital art. You have a bunch of premade characters, skins, clothes, hair, background, etc. that you plug into the program, and from there it's a matter of figuring out how to frame it and make it look interesting.

As for actually getting figures on screen it's all pretty straightforward, and there isn't much art skill involved. It's all a matter of making an interesting picture with the 3D assets you have to work with.

You don't need to have any artistic ability to load a body type, throw on some hair and clothes, and start posing it. The flip side is you also can't create something from scratch to match your exact vision, but you can achieve a lot of variety by playing with existing libraries of stuff.

 

[AetherL]

I might be tough, but I think it's better for everyone.

Using daz3d is as easy as learning to play a building game for 10 year olds.
You put things together and ... that's it.

This is the basis. anyone can learn how to do this very quickly just by following the tutorial included in the program.

But no...

To learn how to do something correct, which will not make you want to shoot yourself in the head every 5 minutes and which will provide just correct images. It may take you months.

The major part of the work being the lighting. Obviously putting one or more characters in a scene is not that complicated (as long as you don't start wanting too complicated poses, which happens quite quickly in reality but hey) and light up the scene so that we can see something it's the same, it's easy.

The problem is that the lighting is more complicated than that on daz3d. Because it's not always all about the lighting. Sometimes the lighting is good but since you are using a particular environment, hairs, camera angle and other stuff it can cause a lot of problems.
I won't go into the details of course, but I think it's important that you understand from the start that producing poor quality images by taking 3 hours per render is easy. But producing images, not necessarily very beautiful, just technically acceptable without spending 3 hours there and therefore having a correct level of production requires a lot of learning time.

So you have two possibilities in my opinion. Either you take the necessary time by investing yourself in it and you will end up achieving the goal you are looking for, but as I said you can count several months. Either you are working with someone who already knows how to do it. There are tons of artists out there who can do something right.

Personally, I don't know how to write. I tried, maybe I shouldn't have. Now I try to work with people who know and I hope to achieve something. And believe me it's worse. I would like to have my ideas take shape but obviously I am not capable of it so I work on the ideas of others. You still have your ideas that you will see others produce. So of course it is possible that it does not necessarily look like what you have in mind because an artist needs a little freedom to work well but if you find the right person, you will arrive at a result rather close to what you want.

That said, there are quite a few games with eye-painful graphics that are quite acceptable and fun to play. There are also sometimes simpler programs, for example I am thinking of honey select or things like that.

But with regard to daz3d and my experience (and the experience of quite a few others), you can count several months to achieve something. But with all that you don't need any special artistic knowledge. Just time to get through the panoply of problems included in the program.

 

[noping123]

I might be tough, but I think it's better for everyone.

Using daz3d is as easy as learning to play a building game for 10 year olds.
You put things together and ... that's it.

This is the basis. anyone can learn how to do this very quickly just by following the tutorial included in the program.

But no...

To learn how to do something correct, which will not make you want to shoot yourself in the head every 5 minutes and which will provide just correct images. It may take you months.

Yea, learning it may be easy, but I wouldn't accept "learning" it, I'd want to do exactly what I'd want to do without any compromises. I already expected that would take months. While the basics may be easy, I wouldn't be satisfied just understanding the basics, that wouldn't really be helpful. I'd need to put in the time to learn to do it right - which I'm not adverse to, and the replies I've gotten have made me a bit more at ease with the idea that it's not something out of my wheelhouse, I just didn't want to invest the time if it involved a lot of stuff I can't do.

So you have two possibilities in my opinion. Either you take the necessary time by investing yourself in it and you will end up achieving the goal you are looking for, but as I said you can count several months. Either you are working with someone who already knows how to do it. There are tons of artists out there who can do something right.

yea. I've been back and forth on that. On the one hand it lets me focus on what I'm good at, lets other ppl focus on what they're good at, and meet in the middle. On the other hand, I know I'm not the easiest person to work with, when I go in on something I go all-in, and I usually expect others to do the same, which really isn't fair, but it is what it is. I try not to work with ppl too often because I know I can often put a lot of pressure on others that they don't necessarily need or deserve.

To be honest that's why I installed the program to begin with, and why I came here looking, because while it might be "better" to work with someone, I know I can be a bit of an ass sometimes when it comes to stuff like deadlines and/or product quality, and I didn't wanna push that burden onto others, if it would be reasonable to do it myself.

The replies Ive gotten suggest it should be something I can figure out with enough time spent, so I'll try to give it a go. Or who knows maybe I'll run into someone who doesn't mind working with an eccentric perfectionist, and I'll go that way instead.

Either way, I appreciate all the advice to everyone who popped in, it's been helpful. You've given me a lot of insight I didn't have before, and plenty of info to go forward with, so ty to everyone who helped me out.

 

[HopesGaming]

To make a quick add on;
The fastest way to learn is to join a art discord and share your work.
On my channel I've seen some of my members sharing their first renders to now making stunning art.
Feedback and tips do wonders. Especially with daz where there is so little tutorial for.

 

[noping123]

To make a quick add on;
The fastest way to learn is to join a art discord and share your work.
On my channel I've seen some of my members sharing their first renders to now making stunning art.
Feedback and tips do wonders. Especially with daz where there is so little tutorial for.

That's not the worst idea I might have to do that at some point when I'm not terrified of the idea. But while you're here let me just say personally

I've tried out a lot of games so far. Deluca family is one of only 3 (well 5, but 2 are finished) that I thoroughly enjoyed and will invest time (and if I'm ever not completely poor, money) on, and keep up with until completion, so whatever you're doing, keep it up, it's great.


Yes.... I'm shameless.

 

[khumak]

The key benefit to Daz IMO is that it allows people who don't have any art skills to create really nice looking scenes. You download assets made by people who DO have art skills and combine those assets to make whatever scene you're looking for. So while you don't need any art skills to use Daz effectively, you DO need skill at posing as well as some knowledge of lighting and/or photography to get the best effects. Most of the things you need for Daz are technical rather than artistic.