How much do mechanics in a story-driven game matter to you?

[Unicorn_Gundam]

It's a thing that's been on my mind for a while now. Do you care about mechanics? Do they bother you? Do they actually add something or just waste time?
Of course I'm not talking about shooters, action RPG, things like that. But rather, say, Visual Novels.

For example, a relatively popular game called "VA-11 Hall-A" has you playing as a bartender. It's almost entirely story-driven, you sit there listening to character stories, get to know them better, learnin about the world etc., however there is also a cocktail making mechanic. Personally, I think it's completely unnecessary. You are not required to guess what a character would like based on their traits, mood or something, you are not required to remember their tastes, you literally only need to read their order, look up the recipe and mix it. There is no timer, there is literally no way to fail it. Is it really adding anything to the value of the game? In my opinion, it's just there to waste time. It would be quite enough to just say "you served them drink X", without making you mix it personally and it wouldn't change a thing.

Or let's say, Danganronpa (or to a lesser extent Zero Escape). Huge "detective" franchises. But treat their player like a moron. You can't collect clues or inspect out of order, you can't give wrong answers during trials (you can, but it just reloads you to the beginning of it if you fail), it constantly reminds you of important things you've learned 5 minutes ago... so does the fact that you can walk around in 3D(ish) environment actually add anything? Would just having a minimap or a linear progression really take anything away from this game? OK, you can go to a room where nothing happens yet. But you can't inspect it, collect clues there or do anything the game doesn't want you to, so why bother in the first place?

On the eroge front I can think of a lot of examples, but let's say, from the top of my head, a game called "Just Deserts". It's your average visual novel with some dating sim elements that has you buying gifts and giving them to right girls. And that by itself doesn't bother me much. A dating sim is a dating sim. Whatever. But it also has a super generic combat system where you fight some unimaginative enemies (literally flying cubes and spheres) with either a normal attack or using some item. Basically your average JRPG combat minus skills. Like, any skills. At all. Just basic attack and items. Why? Just... why?

So... what are your thoughts? Do mechanics in story-driven games actually add anything to your experience? Or are you like me and think they are highly unnecessary?

 

[kytee]

I agree mostly, except I think, whatever it is you consider mechanics, when done correctly, can be used as a very effective world-building tool. Many of the visual novels on this site are guilty of spouting exposition in order to build their worlds, which end up extremely boring and heavy-handed; You have an omniscient narrator telling you exactly how the world is, with no flex for wonder or questions. A lot of it is also completely useless information; the writer thought of some completely useless, cool shit in the world and just had to include it so it doesn't go to waste. All of this background information is boring and would slow down the pacing of the main story, but when included as part of an engaging "mechanic", can be fun for the end user to play and explore some backstory. I liken it to side quests in big RPG's that help flesh out the world the main quest takes part in. Ultimately though, I think a very engaging visual novel should do away with mechanics altogether and instead sprinkle backstory and world building into the visuals and dialogue in a way that the readers should have to do a bit of detective work to uncover.

 

[Kinderalpha]

I don't believe these mechanics your describing belong in a visual novel. If you're trying to squeeze mechanics into your game so that it feels more interesting, challenges you as a developer, or you want to stand out. You need to step away from the visual novel format, and use something different. Mechanics, especially complex, don't belong in a visual novel. It takes away from the immersion, it requires more input and focus from the player than necessary, and usually adds little to the experience. Visuals novels should remain visual novels. If you don't wanna make a visual novel, then don't make one.

 

[ParadiseLofts]

I actually like breaks in the story-telling, so long as it doesn't get redundant or grindy, but I get Kinderalpha's point of view, too. As a developer who has coded little games and challenges in my VN, based on my limited experience, players do not like to "lose" - I don't have a lot of patrons, but I've received hundreds of messages from players wanting to know if they did this right, or that right, or got every scene, yada yada.

On the backend of things, to do a challenge "right" you need to code the success ending, the fail ending, and maybe others in between , and get them all to loop back into the story and somehow be tracked, if that challenge is scored or referenced later in the game. I am guessing the games that don't let you fail a challenge (hence, why have the challenge in the first place?) are maybe just following a very linear story, and the players pass every "challenge" successfully.

 

[215303j]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Purpose of a porn "game": to get the player to cum. This is done by presenting the player with scenes which the player finds erotic. Because different players have different fetishes / turnoffs, players can choose to see or skip certain content by clearly indicated choices.

- Purpose of a visual novel: to present the player an interesting (and occassionally erotic) story. The player gets to make meaningful choices which drive the MC in one direction or another, and thereby indirectly choosing the content the player gets to see. Sometimes this is obvious but sometimes it's hidden. Paths can be taken by simple choices, or by gathering points, for example.

- Purpose of a "true" game: to present the player with challenging but enjoyable tasks. The pay-off of completing these tasks is to progress the story and/or see erotic content.

All three can be found on this site and all of them serve their purpose.

I would say that a true game is the most difficult to make, and I think that the erotic element makes it harder. Although I like such games, they are (in my opinion) less effective as porn.

The branching VN is the best in this genre, in my opinion. Not only does it make the game more interesting, it also makes the porn scenes more involved and effective.

 

[woody554]

better is always better, but it seems I'm willing to ignore pretty much any failings if only the story tickles my kink. conversely the smoothest mechanics can't make me interested in a story without my kinks.

when you gate my target content behind a coctail making minigame, it's unlikely that I'm ever gonna have ANY interest in making cocktails. but, if you somehow connect the cocktails into my kink it changes everything.

lets say I'm after milfs. and you force me into making coctails to get forward. sure I'll click through it, but reluctantly just to get to the milf. it's a nuisance, not a feature.

but, if you write the milf as a battle-hardened bar owner milf, who hates his incompetent staff. and give me the opportunity to impress the milf with my cocktail making skills, now it's all different. now the cocktails mean something to me, they're my way of showing affection to the milf, so I identify with it. it's not about making cocktails anymore but communicating with the milf.

now, lets remove the milf being impressed with cocktails, and we're back to square one. if the milf doesn't care about it, I won't either.

it's the same old thing, making your readers feel for your characters. about manipulating your reader to feel things. engaging those mirror neurons in the brain and fooling readers to feel the feelings you show them. failing that connection ANY story/minigame is just meaningless words on paper. and will get skipped.