Ren'Py How to make decent/cringless story/dialogs?

LvRtCw

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Oct 1, 2018
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I'm currently modding an old Renpy game and I wanted to fix/improve the story and dialogs but I seem to make it more worse. How do I improve my story writing skills? Any suggestions?
My problem > Skill issue! Skill issue? Skill issue.
 

anne O'nymous

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How do I improve my story writing skills?
By reading, reading and reading again, this while in between writing, writing and writing again.
There's writing classes of course, but they will teach you academical writing, what isn't the same and totally don't apply to dialogs.

Writing, especially when it come to dialogs, is a feeling. You feel the situation, like you feel how the characters would react during it. This give you the raw version of the dialog, that you'll then polish for it to feel natural.
Generally good writers know relatively well their characters, including totally irrelevant details regarding their life, that only them will ever know, but that are representative of their personality. They are like old friends. The kind of friends for which you would say things like "ah, if he was here, he would have done this, I have no doubt about it". It what permit them to write good dialogs.
And of course, all this can not effectively be taught. The only thing that you can learn is how to build your own mind to works that way ; yet with no guaranties that you'll be able to do it.

This being said, there's still way to improve your writing.
The easiest one, while still being relatively effective, is to say the dialog out loud. Bonus point if there's someone that could help you by "playing" the other characters. It help you catch the problem in a particular dialog line, as well as to catch the problems with the pace of the discussion, the tone of a dialog line when put in regard to the others, and all the generic errors that make a dialog be really bad.
It will not make your dialogs be effectively good, but at least they'll not be bad anymore, and it's already a really big win.
 

Nicke

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Jul 2, 2017
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I'm currently modding an old Renpy game and I wanted to fix/improve the story and dialogs but I seem to make it more worse. How do I improve my story writing skills? Any suggestions?
My problem > Skill issue! Skill issue? Skill issue.
If you don't anguish over it for days and rewrite it at least four times, you're not doing it properly!

Aside from inserting a joke, there's not much to add to what anne O'nymous said above. Every skill takes practice, practice, and more practice.

When you hear someone say this or that guy has such a talent, be it music, sports, writing, yea they might. But they also probably put a shitload of hours into it to get to where they are.
 

GNVE

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Jul 20, 2018
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I agree with anne O'nymous. And there is more truth in what Nicke then she let on. Write your first draft. leave it for a couple of days re-read the draft. See what doesn't flow and re-write. All arts have periods of working, waiting, working.

Some tips of my own:
Why is the dialogue important. I recently read a story where the author had realistic dialogue (see spoiler) but it made it a chore to read. All that was important in that scene was how the character felt about his first day at work. (I think the original dialogue also had something about what the wife was going to do the day after before she asked about her husband) You can lead it in with a sentence or two but you need to make choices.
The staff member was superfluous in the scene and added nothing. Now if they were discussing something secret, something embarrassing or even having a footie under the table this would be different. You'd have the tension in the air as the oblivious waitress does her thing.
I'm not saying every bit of dialogue has to be important for the story but there needs to be a reason it is there.
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Make sure the characters have a background. It is hard to write good dialogue if the characters personalities are big dick and cock/finger/tongue sleeve. It doesn't need to be an amazing character background but it can be as simple as having limits to what they are willing to do or discus and/or giving them a goal. Of course having a bigger background makes things easier later on but don't go overboard. like a one page background is probably more than you need.
 

anne O'nymous

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I'm not saying every bit of dialogue has to be important for the story but there needs to be a reason it is there.
That's an important point.

By itself, the scene you quoted add a bit of realism to the story, because yes when we goes to a restaurant this scene happen. But is this "bit of realism" really needed ? It's debatable.
Every time one write a piece of dialog, he should ask himself "what did it add to the story ?" And if he don't find an answer, or if this answer limits to "realism", then this piece of dialog is totally useless and should be removed.
This doesn't mean that every player will find this part interesting or even useful, because everyone will have his own reading, but as the writer you should know why every dialog is in the story.

Of course, there's the "bit of realism", and it matters.
Passing from, let's say a discussion in the car, to both seated in the restaurant and facing their meal, would be bad. But there's so many way to do this while still carrying a bit of information in top of the bit of realism.
To stay with your example, "I'll take the steak, as usual", or "heard their steak are good, I'll take one", already change a bit the feeling, because the player will feel like he learned something ; the husband is a man of habit, or they never came in this restaurant before.
By itself the relevance of the information isn't the most important part, what matters is that this information exist. We know a bit more about the husband, therefore he's a bit less of a stranger. It's because of this that, when closing a book for the last time, we have this "goodbye my friends" feeling. The characters were total strangers when we started to read, but aren't anymore when we stop. It's never just the story that we miss, it's the company of the persons with who we traveled through this journey.
 
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osanaiko

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The easiest one, while still being relatively effective, is to say the dialog out loud.
OP, this is my number one technique when reviewing and editing dialogue for other people's games.

Picture the scene in your mind. Read the words out loud... (internally maybe)... and then you will *hear* the parts that are cringe/unrealistic because they stand out like a AI-CG art photoshopped into a hand drawn comic.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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OP, this is my number one technique when reviewing and editing dialogue for other people's games.

Picture the scene in your mind. Read the words out loud... (internally maybe)... and then you will *hear* the parts that are cringe/unrealistic because they stand out like a AI-CG art photoshopped into a hand drawn comic.
used to yell his text, and only keep it if it was still sounding good. But it's probably exaggerated, and it need to not have too clause neighbors. Still, this prove that it's not something new, nor an amateur thing ; if it's good enough for Flaubert, I'm sure it's good enough for us.
 

Queen Rat

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Jul 5, 2021
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“The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shockproof, shit detector. This is the writer’s radar and all great writers have had it.” Ernest Hemingway

Most writers will write, edit, rewrite, edit, etc. etc. until their shit detector stops going off. Then they'll return to the scene after a couple of weeks/months and repeat the process. When the proof readers/editors get hold of the first draft they will tear it apart again, more edits during the second draft and so on and so on. I'm sure there are supremely gifted individuals who can produce a great first draft on their first attempt, but for the rest (professional writers), creating a story is an iterative, OCD fueled exercise that literally drive some crazy.

Not saying that anybody here should go to these extremes, but producing dialog that does not grate, does not drag and moves the story forward will probably require numerous rewrites. At least the OP realizes that the dialog is flawed, which is a good start .The shit detector seems to be working fine!
 

Deleted member 2282952

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May 1, 2020
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“The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shockproof, shit detector. This is the writer’s radar and all great writers have had it.” Ernest Hemingway

Most writers will write, edit, rewrite, edit, etc. etc. until their shit detector stops going off. Then they'll return to the scene after a couple of weeks/months and repeat the process. When the proof readers/editors get hold of the first draft they will tear it apart again, more edits during the second draft and so on and so on. I'm sure there are supremely gifted individuals who can produce a great first draft on their first attempt, but for the rest (professional writers), creating a story is an iterative, OCD fueled exercise that literally drive some crazy.

Not saying that anybody here should go to these extremes, but producing dialog that does not grate, does not drag and moves the story forward will probably require numerous rewrites. At least the OP realizes that the dialog is flawed, which is a good start .The shit detector seems to be working fine!
Yep, that. Keep writing, and then if after a couple of days you can read your own stuff and didn't think that it's shit - it means it's slowly becoming readable. Writing a story outline is fun. Writing text/dialogue that you put in-game - is very hard. That's why there are so many posts "I want to make a game" with some bad/good/great ideas, that don't come to fruition because making outlines and writing production content are drastically different processes.
 
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Eezergoode

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Oct 31, 2017
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This being said, there's still way to improve your writing.
The easiest one, while still being relatively effective, is to say the dialog out loud. Bonus point if there's someone that could help you by "playing" the other characters. It help you catch the problem in a particular dialog line, as well as to catch the problems with the pace of the discussion, the tone of a dialog line when put in regard to the others, and all the generic errors that make a dialog be really bad.
This, right here, is great advice. I do this myself, on the rare occasion I actually have time to write, and was doing it over 30 years ago when I was actively writing short stories. And it does work better if you have another person to read against, almost like actors rehearsing a scene. Record it, then go back and listen to it.

Also, I saw someone else say, write it, then set it aside and go back and re-read it later. This is also a solid idea. Fresh eyes might catch things you missed the first time around.
 

Fockstar

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Jul 18, 2023
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As noted before, the background of the character is a must thing to know inside out. Like what is the temperament of the character, what has happened, what's the special quirks of him/her. Try to mirror someone you know well, how would that person answer to a mundane question? Propably not just plain general shit, but something uniquely like their personality would. Of course it's a tedious job to imagine and write down an autobiography of every event that would've happened to a fictional character, so just stick to the important parts.

Why the dialogue is there - what is it conceiving? What is the purpose? Building the character for the player/reader is by giving the personality shine through, it needs to be believable and you need to be uniform in the responses the character gives out - that's why writing the backstory, temperament and personality is kinda a must.


Generally good writers know relatively well their characters, including totally irrelevant details regarding their life, that only them will ever know, but that are representative of their personality.
This is a really good piece of advice. Basically what i'm trying to say.
 

SoberSphagghett

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Sep 14, 2018
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I agree with anne O'nymous. And there is more truth in what Nicke then she let on. Write your first draft. leave it for a couple of days re-read the draft. See what doesn't flow and re-write. All arts have periods of working, waiting, working.

Some tips of my own:
Why is the dialogue important. I recently read a story where the author had realistic dialogue (see spoiler) but it made it a chore to read. All that was important in that scene was how the character felt about his first day at work. (I think the original dialogue also had something about what the wife was going to do the day after before she asked about her husband) You can lead it in with a sentence or two but you need to make choices.
The staff member was superfluous in the scene and added nothing. Now if they were discussing something secret, something embarrassing or even having a footie under the table this would be different. You'd have the tension in the air as the oblivious waitress does her thing.
I'm not saying every bit of dialogue has to be important for the story but there needs to be a reason it is there.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Make sure the characters have a background. It is hard to write good dialogue if the characters personalities are big dick and cock/finger/tongue sleeve. It doesn't need to be an amazing character background but it can be as simple as having limits to what they are willing to do or discus and/or giving them a goal. Of course having a bigger background makes things easier later on but don't go overboard. like a one page background is probably more than you need.
Sandra couldn't wait for Robert to start working at the company.
She knew the poor bastard would be slaving away 12hs a day 6 days a week for a paycheck she could crank out in an hour.
And she intended to crank those paychecks of her own.. plenty of them.. wherever the oportunity arose.
Maybe starting with this cutie taking their orders. In such a fine dining establishment, maybe even this underpaid morsel had something to offer.. or another.

Robert truly was nervous to start working at TrustFundMe and friends with benefits (tm).
He had heard that the higher ups would fire just about any newly enrolled face if it didn't satisfy their corporate needs of greed and power. He had aggreed to such a low weekly salary just so he could secure the spot.
It didn't matter to him that he had to study IT and Law for 6 years and accumulate ***k in family debt.
He was that desperate to finally start working.

Chip had a hard on through the entire day and seeing this bombshell of a lady ordering medium rare steak and the infamously bitter Chateu de Gudilieur in such a begulling fashion really put a strain on his pants. Good thing he saved up for a new PC rig to watch 4D 16K porn with the highest quality headset for maximum immersion. Just to finish this week and buy it, though, before it runs out of stock :/