I need help installing and running games on linux

cybersnatch

Newbie
Aug 28, 2019
17
3
Right now i'm trying to install and run Treasures of Nadia and My Best Deal.
In ToN i give permissions to launcher.sh but it opens sublime text/mousepad
In MBD i give permissions to all files and same thing happens
please help!
 

scrumbles

Engaged Member
Jan 12, 2019
2,340
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I don't know what your distro and your file manager are, but see if helps. The files are executable, right?

Btw, you can also launch any .sh file from terminal (provided that it is executable, of course):
Code:
cd path/to/the/game/dir
./launcher.sh
Also you may find this thread useful in the next future.
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
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It depends on the distro, but with most, it shouldn't be a problem. If you're running almost any Debian or Ubuntu Forks, (which honestly is half of them out there), you can install either windows compatibility layer or wine windows program loader. After you DL the Windows version of the game, find the .exe application, right click it, go to permissions & check run program as executable. (the dialogue may vary by distro, but the checkbox should be there with text that is a reasonable approximation of "run as executable") then after that, if you're using wine compatibility layer, simply double click the .exe application just like you would in windows. If you're using wine windows program loader, right click the .exe & click run with wine windows program loader.
 

cold_arctus

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Sep 25, 2018
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It depends on the distro, but with most, it shouldn't be a problem. If you're running almost any Debian or Ubuntu Forks, (which honestly is half of them out there), you can install either windows compatibility layer or wine windows program loader. After you DL the Windows version of the game, find the .exe application, right click it, go to permissions & check run program as executable. (the dialogue may vary by distro, but the checkbox should be there with text that is a reasonable approximation of "run as executable") then after that, if you're using wine compatibility layer, simply double click the .exe application just like you would in windows. If you're using wine windows program loader, right click the .exe & click run with wine windows program loader.
First, you replied to an one year old question and second, your answer or help isn't helpful at all! Sorry!

There is absolutely no reason to use Wine & Co. to play any Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game on Linux. Wine & Co. are only needed for some Unity, UE and special engines, if no native Linux build exist for the game. Native Linux builds for Ren'Py and RPG MV Maker are easy to be ported by players using the Windows build of the game. For more information check the threads linked in my signature.

Have a good day.
 

Slappy Kinkaid

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Apr 14, 2018
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First, you replied to an one year old question and second, your answer or help isn't helpful at all! Sorry!

There is absolutely no reason to use Wine & Co. to play any Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game on Linux. Wine & Co. are only needed for some Unity, UE and special engines, if no native Linux build exist for the game. Native Linux builds for Ren'Py and RPG MV Maker are easy to be ported by players using the Windows build of the game. For more information check the threads linked in my signature.

Have a good day.
I appreciate your input but I respectfully disagree. Keep in mind, if the program is in a .sh format, then that's likely because the Linux native version is in the form of a tarball. Many linux novices don't really know how to launch & use tarball downloads. Even for those that do know how to use them, you have to navigate to the correct routepath in terminal & launch it from there.

Quick side note btw, I looked up the thread you referenced, & it's full of people whom are having issues running Linux ports, (as well as using Wine), & having to jump through all kinds of hoops to get the games working right. For example, Alleykat posted a walkthrough for Unity games that required multiple steps of Dling Java repositories & configuring them. This seems like a lot of additional steps & hassle with less than ideal results.

Now, in contrast, My method is very simple & straight forward. Step 1. Download on your Linux machine Wine compatibility layer or Wine windows program loader, (this step only needing to be done ONE TIME ONLY, barring reinstalling the OS or what not). Step 2. Dl the windows version of the game. Step 3. Open game in folder, right click the .exe for the game, select properties & tick the "run as executable" box. Step 4. Double click the game, just like if it was on a native Windows system. BTW, the ticking of the box only has to be done one time after DLing the game. Once it's installed & the box is ticked, all the person needs to do anytime they want to run the game is simply double click it. That's it.

So, when looking at my method, once Wine compatibility layer, (or WWPL), is installed the only additional step Linux users would need to take is right clicking the game launcher, clicking properties & ticking a box. Otherwise, they just run the games by double clicking them just like on a Windows machine. I've been doing it that way on my xubuntu voyager machine for years & so far, haven't had any problem running 99% of the games that I've downloaded. I'd say I've only had issues with maybe 1 out of every 20 or so games.

So I don't understand why your response is that my way isn't helpful at all when it's simple, straight forward, newbie friendly, requires literally only 1 additional step beyond the "windows method" of launching the game, & most importantly, it works with a very high success rate, while the resources you directed me to would likely confuse a Linux newbie & for a seasoned user like myself just raises the question of "why the extra hassle & headache when other methods are faster, easier & based on that thread, more reliable"?
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

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Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
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First, you replied to an one year old question and second, your answer or help isn't helpful at all! Sorry!

There is absolutely no reason to use Wine & Co. to play any Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game on Linux. Wine & Co. are only needed for some Unity, UE and special engines, if no native Linux build exist for the game. Native Linux builds for Ren'Py and RPG MV Maker are easy to be ported by players using the Windows build of the game. For more information check the threads linked in my signature.

Have a good day.
So TL: DR version, You are incorrect, my method absolutely IS helpful because it's simple, straight forward & simply works reliably, which is what most people want. They want their programs to work right out of the box, or as close to that as possible, which the method I provided does. What additional benefit is there to all the extra steps of DLing additional repositories & extra configuring & tinkering & work in the terminal to get the Linux ports working that makes my solution "not helpful"? This isn't the days of Fedora Core & Slackware anymore. Linux has come a long way in the last 10 to 15 years & honestly, I'm not seeing what advantage using the old way offers when simpler, more turn key options like mine are readily available.
 

cold_arctus

Devoted Member
Sep 25, 2018
8,945
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because it's simple, straight forward & simply works reliably,
I strongly disagree with you. Recommending a Linux newbie to install a Windows layer to launch a bunch of adult games written in Python or Java is over the top and nothing as a dirty workaround. The aim should not be to run an .exe file, but to run a game/application natively in its Linux environment without the need of a Windows layer such as Wine. Means, Wine & Co. might be a temporal solution, but at the same time it is nothing than an illusion that pretends that you can run any Windows game through Wine & Co. just by clicking on .exe file - which isn't true either.

Your solution starts to crumble as soon as a user use a computer/laptop with old hardware. For a Ren'Py game they might not experience much performance issues (resource consumption), but as soon as it comes to RPG Maker MV or Unity games it is a total different story. In case of RPG MV Maker games the Windows build version often runs unstable through Wine and might crash frequently, which often isn't the case via a native Linux build. Further, most Unity games to not run out-of-the-box through Wine & Co as suggested in your first post. Either a newer Wine build is needed or extra Windows libraries (.dll) are required to see dialogues, animation etc. which you need to install through Winetricks and configure through Wine itself.

I also don't understand why you think that installing Wine & Co. is a "simple, faster and straight forward way" to play a Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game? The last time that I checked how to install Wine, Lutris etc. I had to follow multiple steps starting from open Terminal, adding a new repository (to get the last stable version and not he old one shipped through distro-rpository), adding a new repository key, downloading the program, (clicking through an UI and enable or disable functions (in Lutris)). I really don't see how this is newbie-friendly and easy to do for a novice? While to run a Ren'Py game they only have to download the windows build (because 99% of all Ren'Py games have the Linux libraries included) and to give permission to execute the .sh file. In case that the game has missing Linux libraries - which doesn't happen very often (1%) - you either copy and paste them from another game or by using Ren'Py SDK.

Even installing Ren'Py SDK is more newbie-friendly then your Wine & Co. solution, because if you think a newbie is able to install Wine (even through the distro-repository) then you can expect that they can extract a tarball with a standard application like File Roller (often already installed).

The same goes for RPG MV Maker games. All they have to do is to copy over "www" folder from the Windows build into the native RPM MV Linux Launcher (available here on F95 - and it comes as .zip or .rar file) and launch the game. Nothing more.

I really fail to see why your Windows layer solution is a "simple, faster and straight forward" way to play adult games compare to giving permission to a .sh file and/or copy and paste a folder? No installation required, no additional repositories, no performance issue on older hardware.

Your solution might help to launch and play simple Ren'Py and RPG Maker games, but it isn't the efficient and newbie-friendlies way and fails as soon as it comes to play games using "advance" engines.

Let's say that we both agree that we disagree with each other.

Take care.
 

Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
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I strongly disagree with you. Recommending a Linux newbie to install a Windows layer to launch a bunch of adult games written in Python or Java is over the top and nothing as a dirty workaround. The aim should not be to run an .exe file, but to run a game/application natively in its Linux environment without the need of a Windows layer such as Wine. Means, Wine & Co. might be a temporal solution, but at the same time it is nothing than an illusion that pretends that you can run any Windows game through Wine & Co. just by clicking on .exe file - which isn't true either.

Your solution starts to crumble as soon as a user use a computer/laptop with old hardware. For a Ren'Py game they might not experience much performance issues (resource consumption), but as soon as it comes to RPG Maker MV or Unity games it is a total different story. In case of RPG MV Maker games the Windows build version often runs unstable through Wine and might crash frequently, which often isn't the case via a native Linux build. Further, most Unity games to not run out-of-the-box through Wine & Co as suggested in your first post. Either a newer Wine build is needed or extra Windows libraries (.dll) are required to see dialogues, animation etc. which you need to install through Winetricks and configure through Wine itself.

I also don't understand why you think that installing Wine & Co. is a "simple, faster and straight forward way" to play a Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game? The last time that I checked how to install Wine, Lutris etc. I had to follow multiple steps starting from open Terminal, adding a new repository (to get the last stable version and not he old one shipped through distro-rpository), adding a new repository key, downloading the program, (clicking through an UI and enable or disable functions (in Lutris)). I really don't see how this is newbie-friendly and easy to do for a novice? While to run a Ren'Py game they only have to download the windows build (because 99% of all Ren'Py games have the Linux libraries included) and to give permission to execute the .sh file. In case that the game has missing Linux libraries - which doesn't happen very often (1%) - you either copy and paste them from another game or by using Ren'Py SDK.

Even installing Ren'Py SDK is more newbie-friendly then your Wine & Co. solution, because if you think a newbie is able to install Wine (even through the distro-repository) then you can expect that they can extract a tarball with a standard application like File Roller (often already installed).

The same goes for RPG MV Maker games. All they have to do is to copy over "www" folder from the Windows build into the native RPM MV Linux Launcher (available here on F95 - and it comes as .zip or .rar file) and launch the game. Nothing more.

I really fail to see why your Windows layer solution is a "simple, faster and straight forward" way to play adult games compare to giving permission to a .sh file and/or copy and paste a folder? No installation required, no additional repositories, no performance issue on older hardware.

Your solution might help to launch and play simple Ren'Py and RPG Maker games, but it isn't the efficient and newbie-friendlies way and fails as soon as it comes to play games using "advance" engines.

Let's say that we both agree that we disagree with each other.

Take care.
I can certainly agree to disagree on this, after all, I'm not after any kind of acrimony here, though I do love spirited, (but civil), debate.

Personally, I, like many linux users, use multiple machines for different purposes. I have my main desktop, I have 1 machine just for games like this, I have 1 dedicated specifically for tinkering with other OSs in VMware, I have 1 specifically for running Kali for pen testing, etc... & many of these devices are older hardware, for example, I have an old Compaq laptop from the Vista era that I got on Craigslist for $20 5 years ago, that's got a low end AMD Sempron & 2 GB of Ram. That's significantly underpowered even by comparison to modern smartphones. Obviously it's running a super lightweight linux distro because there's no way windows would run even half decent on them. Likewise, the machine I'm using right now, (the one I presently play these games on), is a Broadwell era I7 Dell with 16 GB of DDR3 ram. Significantly more robust, but all still running different distros of Linux. With the old Compaq, I used Lubuntu 16.04 & on this current machine I'm running xUbunbtu Voyager 18.04.

With both, as part of the typical post installation / set up process for the machines, aside from doing the usual updates, installing & configuring hardware drivers & plugins, installing flash plugin installer, etc... One of the first things I did was install all of the software & packages I might need or want to use, (not just wine, but other tools I like using. I'm still partial to browsers like dillo, Konqueror, etc...). So that is part of the machine set up stage & should be done anyway after a fresh OS installation. I think we can both agree on that. So the presumption is that all these universal baselines are set in place by the time they are seeking out games to download & play.

So, let me take you through my methodology so that it might be more clear. When I'm doing the initial post install setup, I'm already aware that I'm inevitably going to encounter games or programs that I may want to play that don't have a Linux native build, nor a Linux port. So, I make it a point to check to see if Wine Compatibility layer is already installed at that time. Since most linux distros already come with it pre-installed, (for example, Ubuntu), that step doesn't even need to be taken, it's already done. However, in the case of xubuntu voyager, that was not the case.

Now you argue that in order to download wine, I have to go through a convoluted process of going into terminal, downloading repositories & repository keys, tinkering with Lutris, etc... & sure, that's ONE way of getting wine, though, like your methodology seems so far, it would be a needlessly convoluted & arduous way of doing so.

The better way of getting it would be to Simply open your distro's software "store", (which again, most distros these days have in addition to their package manager), search for wine & click install on Wine compatibility layer or WWPL, (whichever is present for your distro). That's it. No terminal, repositories, keys or Lutris needed. Your understanding of Linux seems to be based on older distros from 10 to 15 years ago where you had to do a lot of work in terminal just to get Mplayer running to watch a youtube video. Linux has come a long way since then. Keep in mind, Everything I've covered in this post thus far is already pre-installed in most linux distros already by default, so the "arduous" task of opening the software store, searching for wine & clicking install ONLY has to be done by users of the few distros that don't already have it pre-installed.

So, at this point, the user likely already has Wine compatibility layer or WWPL, (either by default or through the simple task of downloading it through the software "store"), So they download their game file from here. Now the normal "windows" method of running the game is to open the folder, click the .exe & play. The only additional step the linux user takes is right clicking the .exe, ticking the box in properties. After that, they launch the game the same way they would on a Windows machine.

So to summarize, for most users, the process is, download your game, right click the .exe, tick the box in properties, launch game as normal. That's it. literally just 1 single step beyond the normal "windows" way of launching the game. For those few users that don't have wine preisntalled on their distro, they have the 1 single step of opening the software store & installing WCL or WWPL from there, which only has to be done ONCE only on their machine. How is anything you presented more straightforward, simple or user friendly than that?

I think where the disconnect lies is in your presumption that this method doesn't work. Here is where your argument falls apart because the fact is, I'm not arguing from a theoretical perspective, but rather actual hands on experience. I've used that same method for every single game I've played on here. It's reliable worked on every Renpy, RPGM, Unity, WolfRPG maker, Unreal Engine & HTML game that I've attempted to play without issues. Now granted, with Twine & QSP games, sure. Additional steps may need to be taken, but those are considerable outliers as they are 2 of the least used platforms for games on here, so far as I've found. So my experience has been that almost all of the games that I've attempted to play using that method have worked without issue on both my old compaq & this current machine. The only reason why I switched machines is because Unity games lagged terribly on the old one, but that was due to the older hardware not being able to meet the resource demands of the game. So I'm speaking from actual user experience on this one with a very high rate of success on this.

Now you could argue that "well if you go with the pre installed wine build, or the one from the software store, that's possibly out of date & you have to go the long way to make sure that your wine is up to date". Why? If the older pre installed wine libraries still get the game to run perfectly fine right out of the box, why would I need to update it? The only reason using out of date wine would be a concern is if it affects the functionality of the game, which so far in my experience, it hasn't, so it hasn't become a necessity thus far, & I've played a fuck ton of games from here & other sites.
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

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Apr 14, 2018
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I strongly disagree with you. Recommending a Linux newbie to install a Windows layer to launch a bunch of adult games written in Python or Java is over the top and nothing as a dirty workaround. The aim should not be to run an .exe file, but to run a game/application natively in its Linux environment without the need of a Windows layer such as Wine. Means, Wine & Co. might be a temporal solution, but at the same time it is nothing than an illusion that pretends that you can run any Windows game through Wine & Co. just by clicking on .exe file - which isn't true either.

Your solution starts to crumble as soon as a user use a computer/laptop with old hardware. For a Ren'Py game they might not experience much performance issues (resource consumption), but as soon as it comes to RPG Maker MV or Unity games it is a total different story. In case of RPG MV Maker games the Windows build version often runs unstable through Wine and might crash frequently, which often isn't the case via a native Linux build. Further, most Unity games to not run out-of-the-box through Wine & Co as suggested in your first post. Either a newer Wine build is needed or extra Windows libraries (.dll) are required to see dialogues, animation etc. which you need to install through Winetricks and configure through Wine itself.

I also don't understand why you think that installing Wine & Co. is a "simple, faster and straight forward way" to play a Ren'Py or RPG Maker MV game? The last time that I checked how to install Wine, Lutris etc. I had to follow multiple steps starting from open Terminal, adding a new repository (to get the last stable version and not he old one shipped through distro-rpository), adding a new repository key, downloading the program, (clicking through an UI and enable or disable functions (in Lutris)). I really don't see how this is newbie-friendly and easy to do for a novice? While to run a Ren'Py game they only have to download the windows build (because 99% of all Ren'Py games have the Linux libraries included) and to give permission to execute the .sh file. In case that the game has missing Linux libraries - which doesn't happen very often (1%) - you either copy and paste them from another game or by using Ren'Py SDK.

Even installing Ren'Py SDK is more newbie-friendly then your Wine & Co. solution, because if you think a newbie is able to install Wine (even through the distro-repository) then you can expect that they can extract a tarball with a standard application like File Roller (often already installed).

The same goes for RPG MV Maker games. All they have to do is to copy over "www" folder from the Windows build into the native RPM MV Linux Launcher (available here on F95 - and it comes as .zip or .rar file) and launch the game. Nothing more.

I really fail to see why your Windows layer solution is a "simple, faster and straight forward" way to play adult games compare to giving permission to a .sh file and/or copy and paste a folder? No installation required, no additional repositories, no performance issue on older hardware.

Your solution might help to launch and play simple Ren'Py and RPG Maker games, but it isn't the efficient and newbie-friendlies way and fails as soon as it comes to play games using "advance" engines.

Let's say that we both agree that we disagree with each other.

Take care.
TL: DR version again, Most linux distros already have WCL or WWPL already preinstalled by default making the need for downloading it in the first place a skippable step for most linux distros. Installing one of those is only needed in the few distros that don't already have it installed.

Once WCL or WWPL are installed, (which again, usually already are by default in the OS), all the user has to do before launching the game is right clicking the .exe & ticking the box in properties. Otherwise they launch the game like normal by double clicking the game. It doesn't get more simple or straight forward than that.

Installing Wine isn't nearly as complicated as you make it out to be because almost all distros have a software "store" where you can search for wine & download WCL or WWPL with a single mouse click. Doesn't get more simple than that.

" The last time that I checked how to install Wine, Lutris etc. I had to follow multiple steps starting from open Terminal, adding a new repository (to get the last stable version and not he old one shipped through distro-rpository), " Why? I've used the pre-installed libraries on all the games I've downloaded & they work just fine with them. Why go through all the extra headache to get "the latest & greatest" wine build if the "old" one that's already there does the job just fine? I have yet to encounter a single game that required me to update my wine build to get it to play & I've played hundreds of them at this point. Most people only care about 1 thing. Does it work? If so, then they don't care if there's newer wine builds out there. If what they have works for the programs they're running, that's all that matters.

"Even installing Ren'Py SDK is more newbie-friendly then your Wine & Co. solution, because if you think a newbie is able to install Wine" incorrect, because since most distros already come with WCL or WWPL pre-installed, your alternative would have to be simpler & more user friendly than literally doing nothing, which it isn't.

" Your solution starts to crumble as soon as a user use a computer/laptop with old hardware." Incorrect. I've played hundreds of games from this site & others on newer & older hardware without any compatibility or functionality issues.

I've played countless Renpy, RPGM, Unity, Wolf RPG, Unreal, HTML & RPG MV games using my method, almost none of them had any issues whatsoever & ran just like they were on a Windows native machine. They all ran reliably & perfectly fine. & I'll remind you again, that the only additional step I had to take with each game was right clicking the .exe, ticking the box in properties & then launch the game as normal. That's it.

Now you could argue that my way theoretically wouldn't work because it relies on wine to emulate, older wine builds might run into compatibility issues & all the other stuff you brought up. I don't care about theory. I care about actual observable results. & the fact is, I've been using the method I laid out for at least the last 3 to 4 years & it's consistently worked on every single game I've played, including those on more robust engines like Unity or Unreal. The only ones I've had any issue with were QSP & Twine, which require additional programs anyway.

" most Unity games to not run out-of-the-box through Wine & Co as suggested in your first post " So are you saying that I hallucinated playing those games & my hallucination just happened to mirror the game content? Because I have played many unity games right out of the box this way without issue.

Now if there's a linux port or native build for a game & the method I laid out doesn't work to play it, is your method a good one to use? Sure. Absolutely. I'm confident it works just fine. My point is, the way I laid out is objectively faster, easier, is more newbie friendly &, for the past 4 years or so, has worked reliably for me with only about 10 to 12 games out of hundreds not running right out of the box. However, your methodology only works IF there is a Linux port of the game. So if it's Windows only, well tough shit, no game for you. My method works on all games.

Lastly, as far as Linux native builds go, it would be one thing if the programs were .deb or .rpm programs, which should run right out of the box, but once we're dealing with tarballs, even using a program like file roller for Tarballs, (which I love btw), is STILL more steps & work than right clicking an application & ticking a box in properties.
 
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cold_arctus

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Demitrius p: No problem here. We both have a different way to look at it and this is absolutely ok. I myself use the latest version of wine-staging with different wineprefixes on a 10 year old machine.

Let me ask you, since you seem to be more acknowledge with wine then me, did you ever come across the animation problem while playing games? I experience it frequently with Unity games, not so sure for RPG Maker games.

So far every game that use Unity's build-in video player relays on Windows Media Foundation and won't play animation, doesn't matter which Gstreamer plugin (good|bad|ugly (x86+x64)) I use. I found a workaround by manually switching mfplat.dll and other .dll to enable Media Foundation. Videos/animations are starting to play, but their performance is very bad and unstable.

Any suggestions for a better solution? :unsure:
 

Slappy Kinkaid

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Demitrius p: No problem here. We both have a different way to look at it and this is absolutely ok. I myself use the latest version of wine-staging with different wineprefixes on a 10 year old machine.

Let me ask you, since you seem to be more acknowledge with wine then me, did you ever come across the animation problem while playing games? I experience it frequently with Unity games, not so sure for RPG Maker games.

So far every game that use Unity's build-in video player relays on Windows Media Foundation and won't play animation, doesn't matter which Gstreamer plugin (good|bad|ugly (x86+x64)) I use. I found a workaround by manually switching mfplat.dll and other .dll to enable Media Foundation. Videos/animations are starting to play, but their performance is very bad and unstable.

Any suggestions for a better solution? :unsure:
Hmm, not sure. What game is it & I can try to do a test run. What distro are you using? I've only played these games on Lubuntu 16.04 & xubuntu 18.04.
 

cold_arctus

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Sep 25, 2018
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Hmm, not sure. What game is it & I can try to do a test run. What distro are you using? I've only played these games on Lubuntu 16.04 & xubuntu 18.04.
I upgraded recently from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I'm running Wine-Staging 5.19 (x86/x64) with both prefixes installed and both are set to Windows 7.

Try one of these. But it will take some time until you reach the first animation in Mystwood Manor and Happy Marriage.
https://f95zone.to/threads/mirror-hearts-v0-2-eroseason.57677/
https://f95zone.to/threads/mystwood-manor-v0-2-1-5-faerin.42940/
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-happy-marriage-ch-11-part-2-lazinginthehaze.11830/

Thanks!
 

Slappy Kinkaid

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Apr 14, 2018
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I upgraded recently from Ubuntu 16.04 to 20.04. I'm running Wine-Staging 5.19 (x86/x64) with both prefixes installed and both are set to Windows 7.

Try one of these. But it will take some time until you reach the first animation in Mystwood Manor and Happy Marriage.
https://f95zone.to/threads/mirror-hearts-v0-2-eroseason.57677/
https://f95zone.to/threads/mystwood-manor-v0-2-1-5-faerin.42940/
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-happy-marriage-ch-11-part-2-lazinginthehaze.11830/

Thanks!
Sure. It might take me a few days, just a heads up. I'm currently in the middle of moving & getting settled in at my new place so currently the hours that I'm working are ironically the closest thing to downtime that I have presently. I'll get them figured out one way or the other though.