I would like an honest opinion about certain fetishes in adult games

[Oberoth]

Well, this is basically my first post in all the years I've been on F95, as I've kept a low profile all this time, just limiting myself to commenting on a few posts or reacting to certain comments, however, I'm working on an adult game of my own hand, an original idea that I have been thinking about for years since I first played Summertime Saga, and then reinforced by the art of Four Elements Trainer, Daily Lives in My Countryside and also Insexual Awakening, since I am a comic artist (Although I felt insecure because of my level, which is not good enough).

Having already put in context, I would like to ask you my question, and that is that my story contains incest, non-consensual sex and things like that, and I've recently noticed that less and less people want to see that in their games, with games developers that they prefer use stepmom or stepsister, instead of using real family relationships despite the fact that the blood relationship they share is very obvious due to the kinship of the characters, and then with non-consensual sex, here the tag of “sleep sex” or “molesting”, showing that they consider this type of relationship inappropriate, but another fetish that I would like to raise is the lolicon, shotacon and bestiality, because in my story, the MC will be in different stages of his life, and therefore, he can who does dirty things with ages of questionable legality (I checked on the Internet and it is not illegal to use underage fictional characters for this, as long as they are not based on real people, nor are they realistic, so it is not about pedofi lia, at least not my intention), the purpose of using this genre is that I wanted to create a game that would push every taboo fetish within adult games to the limit, I consider Insexual Awakening to be one of those that has taken further, or Four Elements Trainer... However, I would like to know the general opinion of whether or not I should do it, because I have not felt comfortable with the subject, and even more so if I am going to receive such cruel comments about it, since As I said, I have noticed more disagreement about it...

As an addition, to tell you that this game will take me a long time to finish its first version, since I want to take the time to develop an organic story and give you good art, also, I am a Spanish speaker, so writing in English is a bit difficult for me hehe

 

[Catapo]

The main problem is that every fetish you mentioned: incest, non-con, beastiality, loli, shota are illegal on patreon so any game with those would be banned if caught. That is why you see a lot of games choosing alternatives like step families or landlady / roommate BS.

Stuff like loli and shota are illegal on this forum as well according to rule 7 but that is a more gray area and is treated on a case by case.

Personally I am ok with all of those (non-consensual can get a bit icky though) and would like to see games who are not afraid to push boundaries but I also understand not wanting to get banned.

 

[Oberoth]

The main problem is that every fetish you mentioned: incest, non-con, beastiality, loli, shota are illegal on patreon so any game with those would be banned if caught. That is why you see a lot of games choosing alternatives like step families or landlady / roommate BS.

Stuff like loli and shota are illegal on this forum as well according to rule 7 but that is a more gray area and is treated on a case by case.

Personally I am ok with all of those (non-consensual can get a bit icky though) and would like to see games who are not afraid to push boundaries but I also understand not wanting to get banned.

And what about Subscribestar? I don't know what you mean with lolicon and shota being illegal on Patreon though, since the most popular adult games I've played that contain said fetishes (Even the ones that have crossed a line that I refuse to mention or repeat) I've downloaded from Patreon, or from Privix, although well, I don't expect to make a fortune or a lot money making adult games, either, if I can earn a couple of dollars so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time, well, it's not bad, but don't think that I think too much about Patreon when it comes to monetizing... Although your observation is very very correct and I will take it into account

 

[Deleted member 229118]

While incest is populair it is still a niche compaire to normal sex.
Same with rape.
Lolicon and shota are very difficult as few place's will let you post that.
And while i think f95zone has gotten more relax on the lolicon and shota tag's all it takes it one person drawing a bit to much attention for them to crack down on it hard.
Rule 7 pretty much means: Dont rock the boat.
Aka do nothing that draws the feds or worse the pedofiles attention.

Personal i like the idea of the main character aging and having sex at different age's.
I would probley play it for the aging mechenic's alone.

You are playing with fire if your adding lolicon and shota.
Be careful you dont get burned.

As for why it is less and less.
Oversaturation.
Incest and rape have so many good games most dev's are looking for a new niche rather then try to compeet.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] the purpose of using this genre is that I wanted to create a game that would push every taboo fetish within adult games to the limit, [...]

Perhaps am I too old now, and have I played to many games, read to many porn comics, and watched too many porn videos, but I'm already bored by your future game.

Not that I'm against taboo fetishes, or that I think they should have a limit... Well, I do believe they should have a limit, but I put it really high ; there's a difference between a story with forced sex (below my limit) and a story resolving solely around violent rape (above my limit). No, it's more the way you present it that I found boring. It really looks like you want to do it just for the purpose to do it, or perhaps to be shocking. And yes, for me this is boring, because it's ridiculously impossible.
You can possibly disgust me, by putting a guro scat rape scene in your game, by example. But you'll not shock me, because all the limits have already been overstepped so many times. In the end, it's more than probable that your game will stay below the limits defined, in other games or in other porn genre, years before you started this thread.
I mean, what limit is there to still push ? I know that I would be disgusted by a guro scat rape scene, because I saw one once. There's an abandoned bestiality game where the MC is a dog corrupting his mistresses ; and it was intended to have optional sharing (between dogs) scenes, while the said dog would become the girls master. There's dozen of dojinshi where girls before 10 are raped. Incest is everywhere despite Patreon ban. There's guro porns where you can see people having sex with girls while they cut them and eat their flesh (and I describe here the soft ones). And so on...
What limits do you intent to push exactly ? It's been decades that there's no more limits anymore, excepts the ones that we put ourselves in the content we accept to see.

So yeah, perhaps am I too old, and/or perhaps have I played too many games, seen too many porns, but I now don't care about someone who push the limits and I found him boring. I have nothing against the fact to push the "global moral limits as defined by the society" ; no names cross my mind right now but there's games I follow that do it. But they are doing it for the purpose of the story, and it's the story that interest me ; the way it evolve, the way this lead the characters to evolve with it.
Then I don't care if the limits are pushed or not, because they are the trigger for what I found interesting, this evolution ; how it will change the said characters, how they'll deal with this. It don't even need to be well wrote or well handled (still it's better when it is), as long as it exist and feel, hmm, "reasonably rational".

And I found nothing of that in the way you present the intent behind your future game. It looks way more like a festival of pushed limits that will surely stay reasonably acceptable and that will perhaps, or not, be served by something looking like a story.

 

[Oberoth]

While incest is populair it is still a niche compaire to normal sex.
Same with rape.
Lolicon and shota are very difficult as few place's will let you post that.
And while i think f95zone has gotten more relax on the lolicon and shota tag's all it takes it one person drawing a bit to much attention for them to crack down on it hard.
Rule 7 pretty much means: Dont rock the boat.
Aka do nothing that draws the feds or worse the pedofiles attention.

Personal i like the idea of the main character aging and having sex at different age's.
I would probley play it for the aging mechenic's alone but be careful.

You are playing with fire if your adding lolicon and shota.
Be careful you dont get burned.

As for why it is less and less.
Oversaturation.
Incest and rape have so many good games most dev's are looking for a new niche rather then try to compeet.

It sounds reasonable honestly... Well, I agree that some limits are not so much for the audience, but because of the fuss and controversy that can be generated, certainly if there is something that I do not want, it is controversy, I want to do something that touches the limits and see how far I can go with this, but I don't want to stir up the honeycomb and end up in trouble for it, so your advice is certainly something I'll take into account, in fact, as I said, the idea of putting shota or lolicon bothers me, and that I get into too much trouble, as some say, it's not worth doing if the risk is so high... I mean, I'm doing this because I'm a big fan of DarkCookie and I just wanted to take a story to the limit (I clarify that my story is not inspired by any hahaha only in the structure perhaps)

 

[fyl3toys]

 

[twoEyedCyclops]

If you're concerned about being criticized for including controversial content in your game, I'd axe it. One less thing to worry about when you're making your game.

However, there are some work arounds for some of your issues. For instance- instead of giving specific ages you could leave it vague (young, seasoned, milf, cougar) and put a disclaimer at the start of the game that all characters are over 18.

Alternatively, you could give the player the option to type in the ages for characters, with the default being set to 18. Tamas Awakening does something similar with how it handles family relationships, the older lady that you've lived with since childhood is your "Land Lady", but they give you the option to enter in something different. That way, it's not their fault if you decide to type in something like "Step-Mother" or "Sex-Astronaut".

Beastiality and non-con stuff is a horse of a different color, though. I'm not sure how you could realistically get around that.

That being said, while I don't want to discourage you from creating a game, I'm kind of with Aon with this one. There are lots of games on this site that are shocking and offensive, but games that are well written and/or with an original concept? Not so much.

 

[woody554]

what others said. with the exception that consenting adult incest is super popular, it just doesn't show up clearly because it hides under several euphemisms like 'step-mom', 'landlady' and milf. vanilla is still slightly more popular but incest is right behind it. the ONLY reason the euphemisms are used is censorship, absolutely no one is actually into 'step-incest' as a fetish.

your plan has another problem though. which is having so many divisive tags, each cutting out a chunk of the audience. none of the tags are the type "well I don't care about that but whatever", instead the people who don't like your tags as a rule REALLY hate them.

the rule 7 stuff alone is gonna decimate your audience HARD, then you lose 50% for incest, 90% for hard rape(kicking and screaming) maybe 30% for soft rape (sleep sex etc). you'll be left with maybe 1-2% of the audience. add bestiality and it's 0.1-0.2%.

if you think about summertime saga it cuts out very few of its audience, even the pseudo-incest in it is pretty mild.

this only happens with the highly divisive tags. stuff like 'big tits' and 'lesbian' don't have a significant hater base.

 

[おい！]

Well, this is basically my first post in all the years I've been on F95, as I've kept a low profile all this time, just limiting myself to commenting on a few posts or reacting to certain comments, however, I'm working on an adult game of my own hand, an original idea that I have been thinking about for years since I first played Summertime Saga, and then reinforced by the art of Four Elements Trainer, Daily Lives in My Countryside and also Insexual Awakening, since I am a comic artist (Although I felt insecure because of my level, which is not good enough).

Having already put in context, I would like to ask you my question, and that is that my story contains incest, non-consensual sex and things like that, and I've recently noticed that less and less people want to see that in their games, with games developers that they prefer use stepmom or stepsister, instead of using real family relationships despite the fact that the blood relationship they share is very obvious due to the kinship of the characters, and then with non-consensual sex, here the tag of “sleep sex” or “molesting”, showing that they consider this type of relationship inappropriate, but another fetish that I would like to raise is the lolicon, shotacon and bestiality, because in my story, the MC will be in different stages of his life, and therefore, he can who does dirty things with ages of questionable legality (I checked on the Internet and it is not illegal to use underage fictional characters for this, as long as they are not based on real people, nor are they realistic, so it is not about pedofi lia, at least not my intention), the purpose of using this genre is that I wanted to create a game that would push every taboo fetish within adult games to the limit, I consider Insexual Awakening to be one of those that has taken further, or Four Elements Trainer... However, I would like to know the general opinion of whether or not I should do it, because I have not felt comfortable with the subject, and even more so if I am going to receive such cruel comments about it, since As I said, I have noticed more disagreement about it...

As an addition, to tell you that this game will take me a long time to finish its first version, since I want to take the time to develop an organic story and give you good art, also, I am a Spanish speaker, so writing in English is a bit difficult for me hehe

 

[Oberoth]

Perhaps am I too old now, and have I played to many games, read to many porn comics, and watched too many porn videos, but I'm already bored by your future game.

Not that I'm against taboo fetishes, or that I think they should have a limit... Well, I do believe they should have a limit, but I put it really high ; there's a difference between a story with forced sex (below my limit) and a story resolving solely around violent rape (above my limit). No, it's more the way you present it that I found boring. It really looks like you want to do it just for the purpose to do it, or perhaps to be shocking. And yes, for me this is boring, because it's ridiculously impossible.
You can possibly disgust me, by putting a guro scat rape scene in your game, by example. But you'll not shock me, because all the limits have already been overstepped so many times. In the end, it's more than probable that your game will stay below the limits defined, in other games or in other porn genre, years before you started this thread.
I mean, what limit is there to still push ? I know that I would be disgusted by a guro scat rape scene, because I saw one once. There's an abandoned bestiality game where the MC is a dog corrupting his mistresses ; and it was intended to have optional sharing (between dogs) scenes, while the said dog would become the girls master. There's dozen of dojinshi where girls before 10 are raped. Incest is everywhere despite Patreon ban. There's guro porns where you can see people having sex with girls while they cut them and eat their flesh (and I describe here the soft ones). And so on...
What limits do you intent to push exactly ? It's been decades that there's no more limits anymore, excepts the ones that we put ourselves in the content we accept to see.

So yeah, perhaps am I too old, and/or perhaps have I played too many games, seen too many porns, but I now don't care about someone who push the limits and I found him boring. I have nothing against the fact to push the "global moral limits as defined by the society" ; no names cross my mind right now but there's games I follow that do it. But they are doing it for the purpose of the story, and it's the story that interest me ; the way it evolve, the way this lead the characters to evolve with it.
Then I don't care if the limits are pushed or not, because they are the trigger for what I found interesting, this evolution ; how it will change the said characters, how they'll deal with this. It don't even need to be well wrote or well handled (still it's better when it is), as long as it exist and feel, hmm, "reasonably rational".

And I found nothing of that in the way you present the intent behind your future game. It looks way more like a festival of pushed limits that will surely stay reasonably acceptable and that will perhaps, or not, be served by something looking like a story.

I think that since I haven't said yet what the story will be about, or what it will be like, or anything like that, it sounds like I only want to attract curiosity, and you have very right to say so, cuz it's not that you're old, it's that we're living in the era of media overexposure, and when you have things a thousand times more unhealthy that have broken many stigmas in this medium, if it leaves you dissatisfied and wanting more.

What I intend to do is generate an interesting story at least, but if it is true that I don't intend to innovate in the genre or in the medium either, because I myself am aware that I have no talent, and maybe it will be boring for you, or maybe it will surprise you and I will surprise myself, but what I know is that this is something that I need to do because I feel motivated to do it, and because I can as they say, I still fail miserably, but I will have tried, however, I have my doubts and since I have no other means of feedback, I have come here, because more than knowing if these fetishes they are popular or not, I want to know what kind of limit I want to reach, because although I want to touch the limits, I don't even want to stir up a hornet's nest and end up prosecuted or in trouble for something I did out of mere curiosity...

And I hope don't get me wrong, I genuinely want to surprise everyone who plays my game, because more than doing it on a whim, I hope to create a story that entertains and makes many cum with the girls that I have designed, I have been doing a lot of building up to give them realistic and genuine personalities, that do not feel like the typical empty girls with no personality who only want the protagonist's dick, I have learned from the beastly amount of porn games I have played, and from hentai manga that have stories that turn the genre upside down. So I hope I won't disappoint you too much if I do.

 

[woody554]

another thing: you shouldn't put much weight on the opinions of ANY of us. not me, not anyone else. the forum is full of strong very loud opinions, often represented by less than 5 posters.

what you should do is consider it, then make your own mind whether it makes your game better or worse. most people here are wrong even about very basic fundamentals of storytelling.

and do some checking if possible when people claim things like "nobody wants to see trope x anymore, we want original stories", do the releases support that claim?

 

[Oberoth]

If you're concerned about being criticized for including controversial content in your game, I'd axe it. One less thing to worry about when you're making your game.

However, there are some work arounds for some of your issues. For instance- instead of giving specific ages you could leave it vague (young, seasoned, milf, cougar) and put a disclaimer at the start of the game that all characters are over 18.

Alternatively, you could give the player the option to type in the ages for characters, with the default being set to 18. Tamas Awakening does something similar with how it handles family relationships, the older lady that you've lived with since childhood is your "Land Lady", but they give you the option to enter in something different. That way, it's not their fault if you decide to type in something like "Step-Mother" or "Sex-Astronaut".

Beastiality and non-con stuff is a horse of a different color, though. I'm not sure how you could realistically get around that.

That being said, while I don't want to discourage you from creating a game, I'm kind of with Aon with this one. There are lots of games on this site that are shocking and offensive, but games that are well written and/or with an original concept? Not so much.

The truth is that I am very happy with the feedback that I have received from those who have responded to my call, more than anything, helping me decide what limits I would like or not to cross, such as incest, or bestiality, and certainly with the ages of the characters, and I had thought of the idea you propose, it is a lot of work to create specific variables for each character so that the ages and roles of the characters are left to the responsibility of the player, but I think it is worthwhile to give a more personalized experience, something I had already thought about. I also very much agree that a well-written and developed story with really believable and immersive characters is more important than something that generates morbidity just because, I want and I hope that all the build up that I am doing in working on the story and the personalities will help.

To that, the detail as I said before, is that many things arose naturally in what I have written, including bestiality of course, that's why I stopped to think, what the hell am I doing? Because i was starting to go down a really twisted path that wasn't in my original plans when writing my story, that's why i came here in the first place and your advice and opinions have helped me a lot

 

[Hagatagar]

With many taboo tags, it's not really sufficient to just have them in a story, they need to be used properly.

A simple example is how other NPCs react to the MC when he follows this taboo. In most games, oddly enough, none of the other NPCs care.
Great taboo, right?

And very often this kind of rather unusual tags fall flat, because the dev himself isn't into them and therefore won't (or can't) implement them well enough.

 

[Oberoth]

another thing: you shouldn't put much weight on the opinions of ANY of us. not me, not anyone else. the forum is full of strong very loud opinions, often represented by less than 5 posters.

what you should do is consider it, then make your own mind whether it makes your game better or worse. most people here are wrong even about very basic fundamentals of storytelling.

and do some checking is possible when people claim things like "nobody wants to see trope x anymore, we want original stories", do the releases support that claim?

What you say is reasonable, however, unlike comics (which is what I do, action and fantasy comics mainly), I don't have an audience yet, nor a clear target audience, it's my first porn game, and it's my first experience in this world is that I hadn't even done NSFW Art before, just this year I created a Twitter account and I started to have followers hahaha, the point is, it's hard for me to discern between what I should to do and what I shouldn't to do, as well as what advice to follow and what advice not to do, I have to tell you that at the moment everyone has been very unilateral about something, they have been clear that they have no problem with incest, as long as the story is good and justifies it , that the lolicon and the shotacon is a risk that I must decide, that bestiality is unnecessary, and some leave it more open for me to decide, but in general the most popular advice is that if I want to popularize my game through Patreon, do not use incest directly nor minors for the story, with which I agree and I am planning modifications so that it makes sense, and obviously, it will be easier to work like this, I only lose the possibility of exploring some limits on that side, but I don't lose much either, I think

 

[Oberoth]

With many taboo tags, it's not really sufficient to just have them in a story, they need to be used properly.

A simple example is how other NPCs react to the MC when he follows this taboo. In most games, oddly enough, none of the other NPCs care.
Great taboo, right?

And very often this kind of rather unusual tags fall flat, because the dev himself isn't into them and therefore won't (or can't) implement them well enough.

You're absolutely right, I probably left out the lolicon and shotacon aside, because I'm not very excited about working with that genre, more than to experiment my limits, and I certainly don't want controversy, that lack of interest can always make me trip over the same stone, nor to mention that you have said something that I definitely don't want in my story... and that is, that the characters act naturally in the face of these taboos, since they are taboos and should be treated as such, even if they later end up normalized in private, it is always gratifying a dialogue type “Oh no, what are we doing, this is wrong” and when finishing and cumming either on the tits or on the face, that the NPC shows his indignation and revulsion at the act, although he subconsciously knows what her was wanted, things like non-consensual sex is very well done in that parody of Rick and Morty, where if you abuse the girls, they will give you a dialogue angry and scared, clearly showing consequences, although said consequences are not lasting... I like to experiment when I create stories, that is why I have motivated myself to do something that I did not limit myself in that sense, I hope not to fail, this is just a survey, and I do not intend to generate false expectations in anyone

 

[Doorknob22]

Developing a porn game is a lonely and mostly thankless endeavor. Since you're most like to hide this project from your real life close ones for obvious reasons, you'll mostly have to push yourself forward based on your own drive and this drive needs to be highly connected to your own fantasies. In other words: if you'll tame down your game to the level where you leave your own passion out, you're not very likely to be able to survive the years needed to meet success.

 

[Oberoth]

Developing a porn game is a lonely and mostly thankless endeavor. Since you're most like to hide this project from your real life close ones for obvious reasons, you'll mostly have to push yourself forward based on your own drive and this drive needs to be highly connected to your own fantasies. In other words: if you'll tame down your game to the level where you leave your own passion out, you're not very likely to be able to survive the years needed to meet success.

Honestly, i did not expect such profound advice, or rather, I did not think that I deserved someone to give me such profound advice, since my doubt was superficial, but I appreciate that advice, I think I will follow that advice, I do this for passion, I couldn't put fetishes that don't give me pleasure in the first place, and following woody554's advice, maybe I should make my own mind of what things could improve or worsen my game

 

[M$hot]

Not counting stuff that may get you blackballed (dancing a bit too aggressively on the loli/shota line) even if it makes sense (As a 15yo I had sex with a 15yo, totally fine, but nothing something you can represent in a game if you're explicit about the age of one or both of the participants being below 18.) you should do what you want.

I do think with bestiality and noncon (not sure what level you intend on) and dancing the line of rule 7, if you don't get blitzed, you put yourself in a very niche section. I personally won't play anything with bestiality and heavy noncon is an absolute nono for me and I detest loli/shota. So your game is like a triple no from me before we even get to the art or story. But others have already warned you for this, the genres you're playing with are mostly marmite-tier. Very few indifference will be found, most people will either love it or hate it.

But developing a game is hard and takes a lot of time, if you are not super passionate about the story, the directions you may take it that tickle your kink, you're not likely to finish it. This site features like 3000 abandoned games? So just be clear up front with yourself if something is a dealbreaker to include or remove. For example with the thing I'm working on, including scat would be a deal breaker, excluding manipulation would be a deal breaker. I want to make a game I'd want to play if someone else handed it to me, and if I have to grind for hundreds of hours to get it made I want it to fit my tastes to an absolute T.

You are putting the hours in, put them into something you'd absolutely LOVE to find on this site. With the exception of shota/loli, that's just adding a gamble that you may get nuked. Considering the hours you are likely to put in to get it to even the first release, this just seems very unwise. Rather than try and dodge a bullet, I would personally not even load the gun if I could still be excited for the game without it.

I may not be excited about the game you want to make, but if you are that's awesome! I hope you persevere and get to make the game you want and enjoy!

 

[Evizzy89]

Well, this is basically my first post in all the years I've been on F95, as I've kept a low profile all this time, just limiting myself to commenting on a few posts or reacting to certain comments, however, I'm working on an adult game of my own hand, an original idea that I have been thinking about for years since I first played Summertime Saga, and then reinforced by the art of Four Elements Trainer, Daily Lives in My Countryside and also Insexual Awakening, since I am a comic artist (Although I felt insecure because of my level, which is not good enough).

Having already put in context, I would like to ask you my question, and that is that my story contains incest, non-consensual sex and things like that, and I've recently noticed that less and less people want to see that in their games, with games developers that they prefer use stepmom or stepsister, instead of using real family relationships despite the fact that the blood relationship they share is very obvious due to the kinship of the characters, and then with non-consensual sex, here the tag of “sleep sex” or “molesting”, showing that they consider this type of relationship inappropriate, but another fetish that I would like to raise is the lolicon, shotacon and bestiality, because in my story, the MC will be in different stages of his life, and therefore, he can who does dirty things with ages of questionable legality (I checked on the Internet and it is not illegal to use underage fictional characters for this, as long as they are not based on real people, nor are they realistic, so it is not about pedofi lia, at least not my intention), the purpose of using this genre is that I wanted to create a game that would push every taboo fetish within adult games to the limit, I consider Insexual Awakening to be one of those that has taken further, or Four Elements Trainer... However, I would like to know the general opinion of whether or not I should do it, because I have not felt comfortable with the subject, and even more so if I am going to receive such cruel comments about it, since As I said, I have noticed more disagreement about it...

As an addition, to tell you that this game will take me a long time to finish its first version, since I want to take the time to develop an organic story and give you good art, also, I am a Spanish speaker, so writing in English is a bit difficult for me hehe

youre going to get cruel comments and negative feedback on your game regardless of if people like it or not some people are just here to troll, if you plan on interacting with people or reading comments about your game then I would personally recommend developing some thick skin.
you already sound like a soft boi worryin bout what other people think'