I'm noping - I make AVN's, and I'm a failure.

[noping123]

What a title, right?

First and foremost I just wanted to state the purpose of this thread. It's not for sympathy, or validation, it's simply to put my thoughts into words because sometimes that's the best way to deal with stuff and move on. I'm personally in a depressive state right now (Hey, I'm bipolar, what can you do, right?) and I've found just saying the shit on my mind sometimes helps. Sometimes doesn't, but hey.

I make games. I've made two so far. One completed, one in progress. The first one... it was ok. It wasn't great, it wasn't terrible - the majority of people who play it seem to agree, it's above average but not by much. Honestly I was fine with that. While one can always dream, I never expected it to be great - the entire project was born from a desire to learn, to figure all this stuff out, and try to apply it to my next game.

Then there's my second game. And most people who play it agree - it's not bad. It's not offensive or really flawed in any way. Ok there are a few minor flaws, but nothing major. Some small minor complaints, but nothing that really takes away from it in a big way. But it's just not... good. It's ok, it's not bad, it's even worth your time if you're bored and have nothing else to do - but it's not great, it's not a must play, there's just nothing... special about it.


When I started making it, I knew one thing for sure - my renders were never going to be top tier, top notch, best in the biz. My UI wasn't going to be top tier either - so I had to make sure my story, my characters, the interactions, the writing, it was as good as it could get. It was the best you'll see. So I worked - and I worked - and I improved things, and as I progressed and started creating, I said "Yes, this is it."

And then I put it out there - and everyone who played it said "Eh, it's ok. Maybe when there's more it'll be better? Idk."

So, I failed. I tried to make a great story, with great characters and interesting interactions - and I thought I did. And people played it, and disagreed. No one seemed to think it was bad - well maybe one person, but mostly no one thought it was bad - they just thought it was "Okay". Not great.

And as I realized this, and began to come to terms with it, I started to wonder why. What was it that made people respond with a resounding "Meh". Was it really worse than I thought? Was it less interesting? Did I hold too much back - in trying to protect some of the more interesting aspects from being revealed too soon, did I create a situation where I was filling the story with boring nothinginess and a depravity of development? Was it just not good to begin with?

I struggled with these questions, and more. I thought about it, and analyzed my work, and tried to figure out what I could have done better. When you're someone like me, that can send you into a spiraling depression pretty quick. So, here I am.

This doesn't mean I give up. It doesn't mean I won't try to improve, or try to figure out how to make things in a way that people one day WILL say "That was great" - but will I? Do I have it in me? I don't know. All I know for sure is I'll keep working - one day this game will be complete. On that day, will it be great? Or will it just be "another game"? Will it be something people try, and love, and recommend? Or will it just be something people play when they have nothing better to do, and walk away going "Well, that was fine."



I'm noping - and I'm a developer. And as a developer, I've found success. But in the search for greatness, I've failed.....


For now.

 

[Icarus Media]

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

When you feel like quitting, remember why you started.

All things will return to dust, all is meaningless.

Rome was not an overnight success.

If you find yourself walking in hell, keep going.

Man is both the sculpture and the sculptor.

 

[Jaike]

For most first-time devs, failure means they abandon their first game. Maybe they'll never try another one, maybe they'll try again and the second game ends up likely abandoned too. Or if they, actually, somehow, complete their second game, they call that a success.

For you "failure" means... completing your first VN... and having your second in active development with regular updates? Development has been pretty quick compared to the usual, the story quality's been heaps over what's normal in the scene (okay that's kind of faint praise or potentially a backhanded compliment with how trash and mediocre stuff there is) and the graphic quality is pretty good too?

That's a high bar for "failure" for sure.

"Failure" must be relative, I guess.

Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

Maybe you'll consider your second VN still a "failure" in the end, but you're setting damn high bars for failure.

 

[Raife]

I'm noping - and I'm a developer. And as a developer, I've found success. But in the search for greatness, I've failed.....


For now.

First of all: listen to Jaike... the bar you're setting yourself is way too high. Most first-time devs fail to even finish their games.

Secondly, you're being far too hard on yourself. Two points:

1. _Alive_ was a very good game. Waaaaaay above average, and off the charts for a first effort. It had some quirks and issues, but it was fun to play. I played through several times and explored most of the routes.
2. _NSL_ is better than _Alive_... much better. The plot is superior, you've already executed some rather unique twists, and the gameplay is much improved.

You're like the weekend warrior who turns up at a track meet expecting to achieve Usain Bolt-like times on his first trip or two out. That's just not fair to yourself or realistic.

I say you're on the right track, and that you still have a chance to be 'great' -- whatever that means in this context -- if you continue improving at your current pace and trajectory. But you'll need to stop beating yourself up unnecessarily.

 

[desmosome]

The answer is simple. Top notch renders/art and a safe story about romance/harem with an MC that won't offend the average self-inserter. That has a decent chance to be a "success." Another angle is to target a fetish market. NTR, Furry, Futa, Fem protag corruption, Loli, incest, etc. That kinda shit can get some loyal followers and has a decent chance at "success."

But the stories that are legit trying to be interesting, unique, and well written outside of the confines of some genre tag? The people that appreciates such things enough to support are tiny in comparison. You can't judge your success in the scene by comparing yourself to the major successes when you are playing under different rules.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

I make games. I've made two so far. One completed, one in progress.

Sounds like a success story to me!

 

[Deleted member 6928841]

Don't misunderstand me but No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games] is basically " Being a DIK at home".
It's just like you played Being a DIK and decided to create a game with the things you still remember.

Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]	No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games]
"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music"	"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music"

 

[noping123]

Don't misunderstand me but No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games] is basically " Being a DIK at home".
It's just like you played Being a DIK and decided to create a game with the things you still remember.

Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]	No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games]
View attachment 3265012	View attachment 3265015
View attachment 3265019	View attachment 3265021
View attachment 3265028	View attachment 3265025
"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music" View attachment 3265033	"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music" View attachment 3265032
View attachment 3265034	View attachment 3265035
View attachment 3265037	View attachment 3265038

I haven't responded to anything in this thread because it did what I personally needed it to do - it let me vent. And I probably won't again - but I will respond to this.

Your post tells me one of two things is absolutely true. Either #1 - you didn't play NSL (or you played like 5 minutes and then stopped) - or you are so far from my target audience, it's insane. And that's fine - different things for different people, but still. Either case sort of invalidates your opinion... no. it doesnt really do that, you're absolutely entitled to an opinion, it just invalidates it to me.

 

[madrobot4]

lmao i though this was a suicide letter for a moment
i am a failure and i am noping lol
Best of luck in your game devs

 

[Icarus Media]

lmao i though this was a suicide letter for a moment
i am a failure and i am noping lol
Best of luck in your game devs

Oh there is one of those in the forums if you're into that.

 

[firsttry51]

marketing is the soul of business, plenty of "bad" games find success and plenty of "good" ones don't.
wish you well dude.

 

[Deleted member 6928841]

Your post tells me one of two things is absolutely true. Either #1 - you didn't play NSL (or you played like 5 minutes and then stopped)

I finished both.

or you are so far from my target audience, it's insane.

It's college themed adult game, don't think I am far from the "target audience". And what is the thing that's insane?

Either case sort of invalidates your opinion... no. it doesnt really do that, you're absolutely entitled to an opinion, it just invalidates it to me.

What? From fonts to UI, storyline to minigames, render shots to music choices, it's nearly replica. And the way you triggered to this confirms everything for me...

 

[VegitoHlove]

I myself have failed to finish not one but two games. I allow my own roadblocks to stop me. The bar you set for failure is indeed a high-bar.

You have done more than a lot of others. I mean I don't really know what else to say.

 

[qwoppe]

Failure's just an opportunity to learn. This is a harder mindset to adopt than to just spout on the internet, but if you finished a game and started doing a second one, and if people agree you've demonstrably learned from the experience, you've already proven that you're capable of moving according to this principle.

True depression is rough, since it instills upon you a sense of hopelessness, and makes you think things won't get ever better even if they demonstrably did in the past and therefore will again in the future. That's always been my understanding of my own depression at least: A state of hopelessness, rather than just sadness. Sadness is peanuts compared to despair.

So try not to ruminate too much when you're in that state, as it will warp your impression of the world irrationally, while masquerading itself as realism. Instead, do what you need to do to haul your brain into a more constructive mood and go from there. You probably got this and don't even know it yet.

 

[noping123]

Failure's just an opportunity to learn. This is a harder mindset to adopt than to just spout on the internet, but if you finished a game and started doing a second one, and if people agree you've demonstrably learned from the experience, you've already proven that you're capable of moving according to this principle.

True depression is rough, since it instills upon you a sense of hopelessness, and makes you think things won't get ever better even if they demonstrably did in the past and therefore will again in the future. That's always been my understanding of my own depression at least: A state of hopelessness, rather than just sadness. Sadness is peanuts compared to despair.

So try not to ruminate too much when you're in that state, as it will warp your impression of the world irrationally, while masquerading itself as realism. Instead, do what you need to do to haul your brain into a more constructive mood and go from there. You probably got this and don't even know it yet.

I definitely need to comment on this.

You sort of hit the nail on the head. When I wrote this, that is exactly how I felt - hopeless. Worthless, like this might as well be the end. That's why I wrote it. I had spent days with these thoughts in my head... I've found sometimes just taking them out of my head and putting them into words helps. Other times it doesn't.


You know what? This time it did I think. I woke up feeling just as awful as I did yesterday....but as the day went on, I wasn't really thinking about it. You know now, just about 24 hrs later, (and about 16 hrs since I woke up!) I feel... better. Not the best, but I actually just finished writing. I don't know if it's my best work - maybe it is, maybe it's not - but at least I did it.

There's definitely truth to what I said - I've been at this for almost 3 years now, and I am most definitely not where I wanted to be. I haven't done what I wanted to do by now, or accomplished what I wanted to accomplish - by all metrics of my expectations, I've absolutely failed, that's not in question. And there's absolutely the lingering question of - will I ever get where I want to be - maybe, maybe not.

But you know what really matters? Not what other people say - not the people in this thread, or elsewhere - positive or negative. What matters is, whether or not I can look at what I've done and say "Yes, I'm proud of that". The truth? Right now, no I can not. Some things I can fix... some I just can't. (For example, the UI is actually atrociously bad in my games, and I can't begin to tell you how many dozens of hours I spent just getting it that far. Some things I really am just bad at - and I don't know if I'll ever improve on those. I try but...) - but there are things I can. So maybe if I'm really lucky, a year from now I'll be able to revisit that question and say "Yes, yes I am".

Or maybe I won't. But there's only one way to find out.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Failure isn't trying but not "succeeding". Failure is never trying at all. Failure is giving up.

 

[Jaike]

Don't misunderstand me but No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games] is basically " Being a DIK at home".
It's just like you played Being a DIK and decided to create a game with the things you still remember.

Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]	No Such Luck [v0.2] [CSkin Games]
View attachment 3265012	View attachment 3265015
View attachment 3265019	View attachment 3265021
View attachment 3265028	View attachment 3265025
"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music" View attachment 3265033	"After hyped main menu music, start thougful music" View attachment 3265032
View attachment 3265034	View attachment 3265035
View attachment 3265037	View attachment 3265038

Is this a joke? Most of those screens aren't that similar, not enough for "obviously inspired by BaDIK", definitely not enough for "half remembered copy of BaDIK".

Let's go through all your comparisons.

Spoiler

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Like, if you had a case you'd have mostly examples like that car picture and a few like the party picture. It isn't clear if there's been any inspiration from BaDIK as things are now.

There's definitely truth to what I said - I've been at this for almost 3 years now, and I am most definitely not where I wanted to be. I haven't done what I wanted to do by now, or accomplished what I wanted to accomplish - by all metrics of my expectations, I've absolutely failed, that's not in question. And there's absolutely the lingering question of - will I ever get where I want to be - maybe, maybe not.

Sure, but most of us don't accomplish our expectations... because expectations before starting are totally unrealistic for most people. It's even worse for natural optimists... I guess you're not one of those.

But you know what really matters? Not what other people say - not the people in this thread, or elsewhere - positive or negative. What matters is, whether or not I can look at what I've done and say "Yes, I'm proud of that". The truth? Right now, no I can not. Some things I can fix... some I just can't. (For example, the UI is actually atrociously bad in my games, and I can't begin to tell you how many dozens of hours I spent just getting it that far. Some things I really am just bad at - and I don't know if I'll ever improve on those. I try but...) - but there are things I can. So maybe if I'm really lucky, a year from now I'll be able to revisit that question and say "Yes, yes I am".

Okay, if you can't be proud of your work, that sounds like a problem. Is that something you have more often?

 

[noping123]

Like, if you had a case you'd have mostly examples like that car picture and a few like the party picture. It isn't clear if there's been any inspiration from BaDIK as things are now.

To be fair, the game DOES draw inspiration from badik in some limited respects - particularly two things - some of the UI, and the use of freeroams. I liked free roams and the idea of them - and the thought of how I could apply them narratively so I opted to add them after seeing them there - the idea of a main menu music player also came from badik - I just really liked the idea of being able to browse the game's music and in (some - but not all) situations being able to choose the song you wanna hear (Or if you just want to know what a song is, so you can try to find it outside the game!). So that stuff? Yea, definitely drawn from bad.

The story though? The plot? The settings? All of it? I'm sure people could draw similarities - just the same as they could between badik and animal house - but the reality is, the base of my story was written before I'd ever heard of badik. So did I adopt some of the stuff I liked and wanted to use (Particularly in the UI department, and to a lesser extent the gameplay mechanics) yes. Is it a badik rip off? I'm absolutely positive there are some people who will say that, but I'll laugh when they do and move on, that's all. Just like people will compare College Kings and Badik, or literally any other game in a college setting. It's fine, of all the potential criticisms, that's the one I am least concerned with and pay 0 attention to.

Okay, if you can't be proud of your work, that sounds like a problem. Is that something you have more often?

I don't want to get all mental health clinic here (or any more than I already have at least) so I'll stay away from that topic, but yea sure I guess you could say it's a theme.

 

[Deleted member 6928841]

Is this a joke? Most of those screens aren't that similar, not enough for "obviously inspired by BaDIK", definitely not enough for "half remembered copy of BaDIK".

First, if you do not played the game, just play it to see how basically compressed BaDIK it is.
And like a said earlier " From fonts to UI, storyline to minigames, render shots to music choices, it's nearly replica."

But not the same of course, just a badly made BaDIK.

 

[qwoppe]

I definitely need to comment on this.

You sort of hit the nail on the head. When I wrote this, that is exactly how I felt - hopeless. Worthless, like this might as well be the end. That's why I wrote it. I had spent days with these thoughts in my head... I've found sometimes just taking them out of my head and putting them into words helps. Other times it doesn't.


You know what? This time it did I think. I woke up feeling just as awful as I did yesterday....but as the day went on, I wasn't really thinking about it. You know now, just about 24 hrs later, (and about 16 hrs since I woke up!) I feel... better. Not the best, but I actually just finished writing. I don't know if it's my best work - maybe it is, maybe it's not - but at least I did it.

There's definitely truth to what I said - I've been at this for almost 3 years now, and I am most definitely not where I wanted to be. I haven't done what I wanted to do by now, or accomplished what I wanted to accomplish - by all metrics of my expectations, I've absolutely failed, that's not in question. And there's absolutely the lingering question of - will I ever get where I want to be - maybe, maybe not.

But you know what really matters? Not what other people say - not the people in this thread, or elsewhere - positive or negative. What matters is, whether or not I can look at what I've done and say "Yes, I'm proud of that". The truth? Right now, no I can not. Some things I can fix... some I just can't. (For example, the UI is actually atrociously bad in my games, and I can't begin to tell you how many dozens of hours I spent just getting it that far. Some things I really am just bad at - and I don't know if I'll ever improve on those. I try but...) - but there are things I can. So maybe if I'm really lucky, a year from now I'll be able to revisit that question and say "Yes, yes I am".

Or maybe I won't. But there's only one way to find out.

We improve at telling apart good art from bad pretty quickly compared to the rate at which we improve at actually creating art ourselves. And it takes a lot more effort, too. On top of that, the average quality of content in any given medium of art also improves as time passes, so you have to be permanently learning just to keep your place in the rankings, so to speak. So I don't think you're ever supposed to feel content with where you are as an artist, just the rate at which you improve.

(I do know that it's fine to phone some parts of a game in and focus on what you're really good at. A bland, unintrusive UI is honestly just fine if you have stunning artwork, engaging characterization, fun overall gameplay or really well-written sex scenes. It's fine to go down a list of various things a game should be good at and have most of them be just average if you have one or two that are great, and supplement it with peripheral elements like music, humor, worldbuilding, etc.)