Importance of Minor Visual Details

[SatinAndIvory]

How important are minor visual details in a story-oriented visual novel? I'm making a visual novel and I'm starting to think that I am a bit too much of a stickler for details, spending 90% of my time on the 10% of things that probably don't matter, so they say. But I guess I'll let you be the judge of that. For example, let's say I have a scene where two characters are walking and talking, does it ultimately matter if I just have only one render of two characters walking throughout their entire conversation of 10 lines of dialogue, or will it have made a noticeable difference if I had 10 renders of them actually walking while they spoke? Obviously, it'd be nice to have the actual visual representation of what's going on in the scene, but would it ultimately have mattered in the bigger scheme of things and affected your enjoyment of the scene if there was only 1 render vs 10?

This isn't the only example I have on hand. I have a list of these minor details of which I am talking of, and I want to know your honest opinion on whether these things, when present or absent in other adult visual novels you've played, made any major impact on your enjoyment of said novels.

• As previously stated, multiple renders for moving vehicles and people while mid conversation
• Random passerby's on a supposedly busy street or school campus
  • Different appearances for those random passerby's unless they happen to be the same person from previous
• Decorations in a house (light switch, power outlets, pictures, coat rack, shoe rack, dish rack, knives and a stocked kitchen)
• City buildings, trees, fences, etc that block out the horizon line so it doesn't look nothing exists in a certain direction
• Variety of food types at a cafeteria versus 1 or 2 types only
• Gizmos, gadgets, chemicals, safety goggles, etc in a classroom laboratory
• Matching furniture styles (An house with a modern design and feel should have modern-styled furniture instead of a traditional-styled sofa for example)

 

[TessaXYZ]

How important are minor visual details in a story-oriented visual novel? I'm making a visual novel and I'm starting to think that I am a bit too much of a stickler for details, spending 90% of my time on the 10% of things that probably don't matter, so they say. But I guess I'll let you be the judge of that. For example, let's say I have a scene where two characters are walking and talking, does it ultimately matter if I just have only one render of two characters walking throughout their entire conversation of 10 lines of dialogue, or will it have made a noticeable difference if I had 10 renders of them actually walking while they spoke? Obviously, it'd be nice to have the actual visual representation of what's going on in the scene, but would it ultimately have mattered in the bigger scheme of things and affected your enjoyment of the scene if there was only 1 render vs 10?

This isn't the only example I have on hand. I have a list of these minor details of which I am talking of, and I want to know your honest opinion on whether these things, when present or absent in other adult visual novels you've played, made any major impact on your enjoyment of said novels.

• As previously stated, multiple renders for moving vehicles and people while mid conversation
• Random passerby's on a supposedly busy street or school campus
  • Different appearances for those random passerby's unless they happen to be the same person from previous
• Decorations in a house (light switch, power outlets, pictures, coat rack, shoe rack, dish rack, knives and a stocked kitchen)
• City buildings, trees, fences, etc that block out the horizon line so it doesn't look nothing exists in a certain direction
• Variety of food types at a cafeteria versus 1 or 2 types only
• Gizmos, gadgets, chemicals, safety goggles, etc in a classroom laboratory
• Matching furniture styles (An house with a modern design and feel should have modern-styled furniture instead of a traditional-styled sofa for example)

I'm biased, but IMO those small details are actually what makes a VN stand out. Everyone can render two people fucking, but can you bring the world to life? The world should be its own character, and it should be a tool in telling the story as much as direct exposition or dialogue is. If you have a lab scene without equipment, then why even bother rendering anything at all? And the furniture style should match the person who lives in that space. Is it a broke college student? Mismatched furniture would make more sense. Is it a millionaire who hired an interior decorator? Design the scene accordingly.

As far as having renders for walking down a path, my general rule of thumb is 3-5 lines of dialogue per render. Sometimes I'll go over that if the conversation is particularly long, but just watch any movie and observe characters talking. Are they standing around, arms stiffly to their sides? No, they're walking around and interacting with their environments in ways that often affect the conversation or its tone directly.

Two characters talk while they enter a store. Does one of them hold the door for the other? That gives us subtext about their relationship.

One character says something funny. The other character laughs. Are you not going to show that expression?

A line of romantic dialogue while the two characters are strolling in a park. Show the other one get closer, reacting to the line.

I could give a million examples. Any dialogue worth having in well-written media should elicit SOMETHING behaviorally, and having a lively world means showing, not telling, all the interactions.

A lot of people will probably say they don't care about that kind of stuff. That's fine. I would simply argue that they'd still identify a VN as more compelling if it includes these details even if they aren't able to describe the differences.

 

[Droid Productions]

The little details are what shows that the game is loved, that the creator cared for it. Definitely worth doing.

 

[Wankyudo]

The people downloading fall into two categories. Coomers and Players.

The coomers are exactly that. They just want pretty pictures and hot text to jack off to. They'll hold in the skip button until scenes come and then pants are off. If your style doesn't fit into what they want; they'll just call it shit and then move onto another game typically. Or make a thread about how games are shit. Probably both.

The players want a game. They want a story that grabs onto them just as much as they want the scene to grab onto their loins. But that second grab isn't the only thing essential to them; as they want the story and the world and the dialogue and everything to all matter.

Now in terms of the little details, coomers don't care about them. They just want the hot fucky-fucky. The players though? To the people who are looking at it from the perspective of someone wanting to play an erotic game vs just jackin it; they want to see a living, breathing world that shares consistency in all matters. They'll give leeway to small errors, but if you lack the details then they'll feel it's jarring and find something else. Those are the people you don't want to find something else, as they are the ones who will make you feel your world was worth something more then a quick tissue paper into the trash can. Don't skip on the little details unless you're planning on just making a slide-show of renders bumping uglies.

If you want to make a story, then make a world. If you want to make porn, then make porn. Better to have one person who falls in love with your story then a hundred who discard it as an afternoon masturbation session. At least, that's my perspective.

 

[Certified Coomer]

The people downloading fall into two categories. Coomers and Players.

The coomers are exactly that. They just want pretty pictures and hot text to jack off to. They'll hold in the skip button until scenes come and then pants are off. If your style doesn't fit into what they want; they'll just call it shit and then move onto another game typically. Or make a thread about how games are shit. Probably both.

The players want a game. They want a story that grabs onto them just as much as they want the scene to grab onto their loins. But that second grab isn't the only thing essential to them; as they want the story and the world and the dialogue and everything to all matter.

Now in terms of the little details, coomers don't care about them. They just want the hot fucky-fucky. The players though? To the people who are looking at it from the perspective of someone wanting to play an erotic game vs just jackin it; they want to see a living, breathing world that shares consistency in all matters. They'll give leeway to small errors, but if you lack the details then they'll feel it's jarring and find something else. Those are the people you don't want to find something else, as they are the ones who will make you feel your world was worth something more then a quick tissue paper into the trash can. Don't skip on the little details unless you're planning on just making a slide-show of renders bumping uglies.

If you want to make a story, then make a world. If you want to make porn, then make porn. Better to have one person who falls in love with your story then a hundred who discard it as an afternoon masturbation session. At least, that's my perspective.

You said literally everything I think. For me, immersion is way more important for a game than the number of sex scenes, or if the scene is animated, etc. When I realize that a game is one of these shitty games with a different sex scene every 5 dialogue lines, I just hold skip to see if the game is worth something or if I should just delete it. Of course nobody wants to spend 3 hours reading dialogues just to see a handjob scene, but it's all about how good the immersion is. I would trade 10 random sex scenes with random characters for a single sex scene with a character that I was building a relationship since the beginning of the game in a blink. Sometimes I actually forget that I'm actually playing a porn game (it happened with Lessons in Love and Keepers) and I personally don't mind when it happens because it means the game is actually making a good job at keeping me immersed.

Also, not to get off-topic, I think these minor details are really important for the immersion. Like, it can make the scenery looks more "alive", it can say things about a character's personality, etc. Since you are making a VN, I personally would like to see the dev's attention to details, it shows the dev made the game with love, but I think you should pay atttention not to make the renders way too overloaded because it may be distracting, or you may spend way too much time focusing on the details and ending up delaying your work. Good luck with your future game, OP.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[...] I'm starting to think that I am a bit too much of a stickler for details, spending 90% of my time on the 10% of things that probably don't matter, [...]

As others already said, it's the opposite, those 10% are what mater the most.
It's what show your implication into the story you're writing. It's what show the serious with which you're taking your role of author. It's what show the respect you have for the players.

For example, let's say I have a scene where two characters are walking and talking, does it ultimately matter if I just have only one render of two characters walking throughout their entire conversation of 10 lines of dialogue, or will it have made a noticeable difference if I had 10 renders of them actually walking while they spoke?

It totally depend of what they are saying, how they are walking, and how important is the scene.
In The DeLuca Family, there's a scene between MC and Isabel, where for a long time the only thing we see is Isabel face, and the CGs change almost with each dialog line. It's important here, because she's telling MC to stop trying to have an affair with her, while in fact having an affair with him is all she want. Changing the CGs permit to show the internal conflict she have at this moment. She's saying something, while her expression show the opposite, with more or less intensity depending how big is the lie she's telling at that instant.
But would the scene be different, with her agreeing by example, less CGs could perfectly do it, because there would have less to "visually say". Two/three CGs, being her smiling more and more, to show how happy she is that MC love her, could have been enough.

Said otherwise, in Visual Novel there's "Visual", a part that shouldn't be forgotten ; the CGs should carry as much information than the dialogs. What mean that they should change each time there's a new information to provide. This being how VN should be done, the visual replacing the useless internal thoughts, and/or useless narration, thrown to the player face.
Go back to my previous example. The scene could have add an internal though between each dialog line, with Isabel thinking "I'm lying", "My god, why am I saying this while what I want is to kiss him ?", and so on. Instead it have Isabel face showing how much her thoughts are different from her words.

So, to come back to your example, the number of renders for this walk depend of the important of this walk and what is said during it.
If it's something important, change the CGs often, to depict the reaction(s) to what is said. If it's more on the filler side, two/three renders can perfectly to it ; yet more to show that they are effectively walking, more than for anything else.

In the end, all is a matter of importance.
Is the detail you want to show important for the story ? If yes, then you've to show it, always.
Is the detail you want to show important for the character's personality ? If yes, then show it, but don't abuse.
Is the detail you want to show important to put some life in the game ? If yes, then show it, but don't abuse.

For everything else, I'm tempted to say that the less you do it, the better it is. Not that it need to be totally removed, but too many games fail because they try to overdo it. They flood the game with purely useless detail, what tend to annoy the player on a long run.

• As previously stated, multiple renders for moving vehicles and people while mid conversation
• Random passerby's on a supposedly busy street or school campus
  • Different appearances for those random passerby's unless they happen to be the same person from previous

Both fall on the living feeling. Show that the characters are effectively moving, and that there's a whole world behind. But don't abuse it, one CG every ~5 dialog line is generally enough.

• Decorations in a house (light switch, power outlets, pictures, coat rack, shoe rack, dish rack, knives and a stocked kitchen)

This fall more on the "useless details".
But everything is relative, especially here. The house need to feel like a living place, so it need to have some decorations, objects, and all. But there's no real need to constantly update this. No one will really complain because the knife rack is still full, while the MC is using a knife to cut something ; there other knifes in the kitchen, he use one of those.
But yeah, in the same time, if you left a magazine on the couch, remember to remove it at some time. It will not stay there for months, but no one will really notice if it stayed for three days in a row ; in fact, it's probably because it stayed for three days in a row, that player will notice that it isn't there anymore.

• City buildings, trees, fences, etc that block out the horizon line so it doesn't look nothing exists in a certain direction

Background life, that is needed ; the number of MCs who live in the middle of nowhere, while still being two blocks of everything is amazing. But it don't really need to evolve with time. What is different from the foreground of the city, that can possibly be optional (depending where and when), but have to change every time.
This being said, there's a moment when you'll reach the feasibility limit. You can't really have crowded streets, or background that change for every single CGs ; whatever if it's 2D or 3D, it would be too much works.

• Variety of food types at a cafeteria versus 1 or 2 types only

In display and showed, yes, available, no.
Do not ask what the player want, unless it's significant for the story, but don't make the player eat the same thing every single time. Yet, there's an exception here. The food can be part of a personal ritual, like him taking always taking his favorite sandwich every Friday, as a way to mark the break between the week and the week-end. But then try to make it explicit, with by example a friend saying that he always eat the same sandwich, and the MC explaining why.

• Gizmos, gadgets, chemicals, safety goggles, etc in a classroom laboratory

See what I said regarding the house. Except that here they need to be at their place. Make them be used when they have to be used, else they need to always be when they are stored.

• Matching furniture styles (An house with a modern design and feel should have modern-styled furniture instead of a traditional-styled sofa for example)

It totally depend.
Matching furniture are a luxury, most home have whatever the owner like and can afford. Plus, you can perfectly have a modern couch and a classical dresser, there's no real incompatibility here.
This apply especially when it's in different rooms, there's people who like to have a different feeling depending of the room. The kitchen is practical and modern, the bedroom more cozy and good looking, and so on.