How much content do you all think should be in a game's initial release and how long should the gameplay be?
Initial release content?
- Thread starter bugglebox
- Start date
- Nov 10, 2017
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I would say it depends on game. Fast paced one with a lot of assets may be shorter because of that. VN where majority is a text, should have more to read than toilet manual.
But it does seem like it depends on the game itself and creator. Author(s) should show what they are about, if it's a lot of sex than story, put (finished) sex scenes, if it's about story - give that.
Creator should play it, if he thinks that it's enough to say "hey guys, this is what I am about" then show it, but if he thinks like it's not enough, should add more. Though, it's easy to fall into "meh, it's fine like that" and "No! Still too short!".
Generally, more content and more gameplay is better.
I would say at least 1h would be nice.
But it does seem like it depends on the game itself and creator. Author(s) should show what they are about, if it's a lot of sex than story, put (finished) sex scenes, if it's about story - give that.
Creator should play it, if he thinks that it's enough to say "hey guys, this is what I am about" then show it, but if he thinks like it's not enough, should add more. Though, it's easy to fall into "meh, it's fine like that" and "No! Still too short!".
Generally, more content and more gameplay is better.
I would say at least 1h would be nice.
- May 6, 2017
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- 3,309
As someone who's in the midst of making their own game, I can tell you an hour of content is for a first release is an extremely unrealistic expectation. Unless your game has reams of dialogue, tons of grind or you have a team working behind you, I'd say 30 minutes is about the target you should aim to hit.
- Nov 10, 2017
- 273
- 223
Why "unless"? Doesn't seem that weird for a VN or RPG to have a lot of dialogue, especially for first release where there is a lot of stuff to introduce, mostly in a form of intro or prologue, that already can be enough to fill 30min, rest can be other content. Sure, if there are images for characters you also need that on screen, same goes for sexual events.
I will agree gametime will vary depending on game type, but calling it unrealistic? No way. More work? Yes.
- Jun 10, 2017
- 10,978
- 16,236
I think you take the problem from the wrong side. It's not a matter of content or time of play, but a matter of understanding of the game.
The first release should introduce the story, present the main characters involved, and give us a good idea of how all these characters ended here right now. It should also let us understand what kind of story we will have (corruption, seduction, domination, etc.), and have a good overview of the game mechanism. At least if there's any game mechanism.
So, the question isn't, "how much content and how many time". It's a marketing approach of the problem, and it don't works for games. No, you should publish your first release when what you wrote is enough for us to understand what we can expect from the final game.
Take a basic incest game like Dating My Daughter by example. You're a divorced father living alone, your daughter come, she's innocent, you find her pretty, you fight the idea of incest. Alright, it will be an incest game following a seduction path, and a visual novel with some choice to influence the story. No need to say more, there's enough for the initial release.
Obviously you can always put more content, but the goal of the initial release is achieve with just this. We know what you game will be and if it trigger our senses.
But in the end, the right moment to publish the initial release is when you feel that there's enough content. After all it's your game, you must do it as you feel, not as we expect it.
The first release should introduce the story, present the main characters involved, and give us a good idea of how all these characters ended here right now. It should also let us understand what kind of story we will have (corruption, seduction, domination, etc.), and have a good overview of the game mechanism. At least if there's any game mechanism.
So, the question isn't, "how much content and how many time". It's a marketing approach of the problem, and it don't works for games. No, you should publish your first release when what you wrote is enough for us to understand what we can expect from the final game.
Take a basic incest game like Dating My Daughter by example. You're a divorced father living alone, your daughter come, she's innocent, you find her pretty, you fight the idea of incest. Alright, it will be an incest game following a seduction path, and a visual novel with some choice to influence the story. No need to say more, there's enough for the initial release.
Obviously you can always put more content, but the goal of the initial release is achieve with just this. We know what you game will be and if it trigger our senses.
But in the end, the right moment to publish the initial release is when you feel that there's enough content. After all it's your game, you must do it as you feel, not as we expect it.
If it's your first game, I think anything around 10-30 minutes if you think is good, would be nice for a demo.
- Sep 10, 2017
- 234
- 147
In my opinion a demo or first release should present the essence of the game that you are going for. If it's a story oriented linear game, then you should present an interesting part of your story that hooks people. If the game is about game play then make sure you have enough game play to show. Which exposes key mechanics to the player and let them see how the game plays. There doesn't need to be much content.
I'm getting closer to finishing my first NSFW game's Early Concept demo. There are still months to go to reach full form, but compared to the overal time that has passed since I started working on the game, the time to finish the concept demo is miniscule.
I'm aiming for at least 20 hours of game play, right from the start with most game mechanics being done and working. The only thing I don't care about much is the presentation eg.: UI. I'm planning on completely redoing that part, once I'm done with fine tuning the concept and the game gets a bit of endorsment (if any).
Lingering bugs and game play will be the focus of the first build, therefore I'm giving the game two weeks of play testing and bug fixing before letting anyone else see the concept.
I'm getting closer to finishing my first NSFW game's Early Concept demo. There are still months to go to reach full form, but compared to the overal time that has passed since I started working on the game, the time to finish the concept demo is miniscule.
I'm aiming for at least 20 hours of game play, right from the start with most game mechanics being done and working. The only thing I don't care about much is the presentation eg.: UI. I'm planning on completely redoing that part, once I'm done with fine tuning the concept and the game gets a bit of endorsment (if any).
Lingering bugs and game play will be the focus of the first build, therefore I'm giving the game two weeks of play testing and bug fixing before letting anyone else see the concept.
I may be going to the opposite of a majority but for me it will all depend on the return you expect.
From the moment you wonder what you have to offer, you already have everything wrong ...
From the moment you don't offer a complete game then you do not sell anything, you offer nothing, you are working. Producing a game.
So you have to show your work and not sell it. And if people feel that they want to support you then they will do it.
If you are in period of test of your work and that you want to have returns then shows the minimum for that. (Obviously here, you already have a global idea of the game and want to produce the beginning so it is not necessarily the case)
But announce it, explain why you show that.
If you have your game already well thought out and you want to start producing it but you are not quite sure of yourself, then do not produce too much. Just the minimum to allow players to have an idea about what you want to do as a game (the subject, the main characters, the mechanisms, the plot ...)
Not producing too much gives you the opportunity to change what is wrong if it is. To redo the renderings / drawings, code, writhing etc ... if you estimate after reading some comments / advice that you can do better. Even if it means wasting time to redo everything at least it will be good. If you leave on something too big and you realize that it could be better .... You will redo everything and it will take you a lot of time or you will decide to continue and you will be dissatisfied with yourself, what is bad.
But again announce it, explain ... communicate.
If you're sure of yourself and you do not intend to do your work again, no matter the comments, so don't stop at a little demo. Show a good deal of content. The more you show at the start, the better. You will only receive what you deserve and you will not be able to go back. But in return you will have fewer people who decide to wait for the 0.5 patch to support you because they find that there is not enough content to see for the moment.
There you obviously get very close to selling your work rather than showing it. Since you don't intend to change it, it's just a game you sell in pieces.
Some will find the last idea is bad. But for me if for example you produced a demo of small size but you do not count anyway to change it then you lose all the advantages to do it.
Anyone who would like you to improve on some point will not support you, and anyone who appreciates your work but would like content will not support you (at least in the beginning).
It's all about knowing what you want to do with your time and what you will receive in return. Comments allowing you to do better or support to motivate you and allow you to move forward. One does not necessarily exclude the other but pay attention to the way of doing things.
Regarding the amount anyway it will not necessarily in terms of playing time, text or number of images. Some games with a lot of all that will seem empty because it is badly arranged or with a bad rhythm. And the opposite exists too. But that's another complex subject.
From the moment you wonder what you have to offer, you already have everything wrong ...
From the moment you don't offer a complete game then you do not sell anything, you offer nothing, you are working. Producing a game.
So you have to show your work and not sell it. And if people feel that they want to support you then they will do it.
If you are in period of test of your work and that you want to have returns then shows the minimum for that. (Obviously here, you already have a global idea of the game and want to produce the beginning so it is not necessarily the case)
But announce it, explain why you show that.
If you have your game already well thought out and you want to start producing it but you are not quite sure of yourself, then do not produce too much. Just the minimum to allow players to have an idea about what you want to do as a game (the subject, the main characters, the mechanisms, the plot ...)
Not producing too much gives you the opportunity to change what is wrong if it is. To redo the renderings / drawings, code, writhing etc ... if you estimate after reading some comments / advice that you can do better. Even if it means wasting time to redo everything at least it will be good. If you leave on something too big and you realize that it could be better .... You will redo everything and it will take you a lot of time or you will decide to continue and you will be dissatisfied with yourself, what is bad.
But again announce it, explain ... communicate.
If you're sure of yourself and you do not intend to do your work again, no matter the comments, so don't stop at a little demo. Show a good deal of content. The more you show at the start, the better. You will only receive what you deserve and you will not be able to go back. But in return you will have fewer people who decide to wait for the 0.5 patch to support you because they find that there is not enough content to see for the moment.
There you obviously get very close to selling your work rather than showing it. Since you don't intend to change it, it's just a game you sell in pieces.
Some will find the last idea is bad. But for me if for example you produced a demo of small size but you do not count anyway to change it then you lose all the advantages to do it.
Anyone who would like you to improve on some point will not support you, and anyone who appreciates your work but would like content will not support you (at least in the beginning).
It's all about knowing what you want to do with your time and what you will receive in return. Comments allowing you to do better or support to motivate you and allow you to move forward. One does not necessarily exclude the other but pay attention to the way of doing things.
Regarding the amount anyway it will not necessarily in terms of playing time, text or number of images. Some games with a lot of all that will seem empty because it is badly arranged or with a bad rhythm. And the opposite exists too. But that's another complex subject.
- Jul 16, 2017
- 22
- 24
Whatever you release as a first demo make sure that it is polished. there is allmost nothing worse then to have a release which is intended to be a demo, so very limited content, which is still bug infested. Shows that the creator has no idea of what he is doing or I dont expect a good quality later on if the creator is unable to deliver even a polished short experience. Just to clarify I dont mean some typos or something like that, but if your games is all about fighting for example I think I can assume that the demo fighting system is working.
Since my games not really linear I'm not fully sure about when there'd be a natural point to end the demo, I'm thinking like maybe a variable that counts the scenes you've seen and then lets you know it's time to just enjoy repeatable scenes until the next version
If your game is simple and has nothing to hide or hard to find then yes it's a good way to go.
On the other hand if there is a moment in your game where the player can ask if there is still to do or not, in this case, I am not sure that it is the good way of doing. A system of achievement or quests ... Basically something visible where we can see where we are with respect to the current content of the game, would be better. Or in the worst case, warn in advance that the player will know when there will be nothing left to do. All to prevent a player from saying that he has seen everything, while there is a scene he has failed to find.
In any case it is surely something that I will appreciate. I do not like having to look at the cgs to know if I have seen everything or not. Which is not always the case, some scenes can use the same cgs but tell something else.
On the other hand if there is a moment in your game where the player can ask if there is still to do or not, in this case, I am not sure that it is the good way of doing. A system of achievement or quests ... Basically something visible where we can see where we are with respect to the current content of the game, would be better. Or in the worst case, warn in advance that the player will know when there will be nothing left to do. All to prevent a player from saying that he has seen everything, while there is a scene he has failed to find.
In any case it is surely something that I will appreciate. I do not like having to look at the cgs to know if I have seen everything or not. Which is not always the case, some scenes can use the same cgs but tell something else.
Yeah I think it can work though i don't know how I'd handle the events that might happen differently with different paths
Mmh ... There is a way (bad?) to do that. A variable for each event / scene to see.
Imagine 3 scenes:
A handjob B
A Blowjob C
B kill C ... sad: /
You create 3 variables scene1, scene2, scene3 (or the name you want ^^)
And when the player finishes the event / scene you put a $ scene1 = 1.
Then you can use these variables at your convenience. If 0 then the player did not do it and if 1 then he did it.
And then create a condition, at a place where the player is sure to go (Map, before going to bed, waking up etc ...), testing all the scenes. If they are all equal to 1 then the player has seen everything so jump to your end of content ad.
Since your game looks pretty complex (nonlinear and with different paths inside the same event), a system of achievement can be interesting.
Of the kind...
Relationship with A: white knight way
Relationship with A: badboy way
Or any other name you want to give to your paths. But for that it will be necessary to create persistent variables so that they remain recorded even if the player starts again the game to see other ways.
But without knowing the game it is difficult to offer a really relevant advice.
Imagine 3 scenes:
A handjob B
A Blowjob C
B kill C ... sad: /
You create 3 variables scene1, scene2, scene3 (or the name you want ^^)
And when the player finishes the event / scene you put a $ scene1 = 1.
Then you can use these variables at your convenience. If 0 then the player did not do it and if 1 then he did it.
And then create a condition, at a place where the player is sure to go (Map, before going to bed, waking up etc ...), testing all the scenes. If they are all equal to 1 then the player has seen everything so jump to your end of content ad.
Since your game looks pretty complex (nonlinear and with different paths inside the same event), a system of achievement can be interesting.
Of the kind...
Relationship with A: white knight way
Relationship with A: badboy way
Or any other name you want to give to your paths. But for that it will be necessary to create persistent variables so that they remain recorded even if the player starts again the game to see other ways.
But without knowing the game it is difficult to offer a really relevant advice.
- Jun 10, 2017
- 10,978
- 16,236
It depend of how your game works. If its a game like The Twist (a collection of situations implying progressive scenes) then a "that's all for this version" at the end of the last available scene for this situation is enough. If it's a game like... er, lust and power (a series of command/actions) then a "not available yet" or none clickable buttons will do it. If it's a game like Spaced out (a collection of actions) its more difficult since each scene is fully independent of all the others. Then, it depend if the days while have an impact on the game or not.
If the days have an impact, you should stop at day X, whatever the player have seen all the content or not. This because it will be more annoying to have to restart because we gone further than the day triggering a new event, than to have to wait the next update to see the missed scenes.
At the opposite, if the day have no impact, then your idea of a counter isn't bad. But in your case a simple counter can't works because you said that there's repeatable scenes. You must count only the first iteration of these scenes. So either you use the binary approach, giving a bit for each scene and setting this bit each time the scene is played (which will not change the value whatever how many time the scene is played), or using a boolean to define if it's the first play (and so you need to increase the counter) or not.
Finally, if it's a game with a mix of these mechanism, like SuperPowered by example, then you mix the solutions.
You don't handle them. More precisely, you handle them like a unique event.
If a player want to play all the paths, he will works with multiple saves and play each path separately. So you don't need to worry, don't need to test if he played this version of the scene and not this one. He saw the scene, that's all you need to know.