VN Interest in Koikatsu games

[joebrunson]

Hello! I just wanted to make this thread to open up a discussion about people's interest in Koikatsu-based VNs. There seems to be quite a bit of players who prefer this art style and some that don't.

 

[InteriorCrocodile]

I think that the problem I have with Koikatsu-based VN's are similar to the video game crash of 1983.

Here's an awesome video on it.

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But if you don't want to watch it or don't see the connection, here's a summary.

A bunch of Atari games that are very similar and often times very lazily made caused a drop in sales that went much lower than what was projected. That and a number of factors such as corporate greed and rapid growth at almost any price; led to the video game industry crashing in 1983. Funny enough it recovered almost immediately after as better console alternatives (like microcomputers) and foreign gaming companies (like Nintendo) started to emerge and overtake the market.

What does this have to do with Koikatsu? Well, the market is oversaturated. You can argue about how unique your game is, but it doesn't matter if players don't care enough to play them. It's like a Marvel movie, do you really need to see it to know what it looks like or what happens in the story.

I am sure that some people are tired of the visuals because most of them don't really try to make themselves visually different from the rest. But I am sure that there are just as many people who see that the game was made in Koikatsu and immediately think that there wasn't much effort put into it.

The tools you use to make a game shouldn't matter, but if I told you that a certain brand of parachutes failed to open 70% of the time, I wouldn't take the time out of my day to try to find the few that would.

 

[joebrunson]

I think that the problem I have with Koikatsu-based VN's are similar to the video game crash of 1983.

Here's an awesome video on it.

You must be registered to see the links

But if you don't want to watch it or don't see the connection, here's a summary.

A bunch of Atari games that are very similar and often times very lazily made caused a drop in sales that went much lower than what was projected. That and a number of factors such as corporate greed and rapid growth at almost any price; led to the video game industry crashing in 1983. Funny enough it recovered almost immediately after as better console alternatives (like microcomputers) and foreign gaming companies (like Nintendo) started to emerge and overtake the market.

What does this have to do with Koikatsu? Well, the market is oversaturated. You can argue about how unique your game is, but it doesn't matter if players don't care enough to play them. It's like a Marvel movie, do you really need to see it to know what it looks like or what happens in the story.

I am sure that some people are tired of the visuals because most of them don't really try to make themselves visually different from the rest. But I am sure that there are just as many people who see that the game was made in Koikatsu and immediately think that there wasn't much effort put into it.

The tools you use to make a game shouldn't matter, but if I told you that a certain brand of parachutes failed to open 70% of the time, I wouldn't take the time out of my day to try to find the few that would.

This is actually very insightful. Thank you!

 

[Sphere42]

Trying to be a bit more positive Koikatsu has a very ...distinct art style. To me it falls into a weird uncanny valley where it's too vibrant and stylised for "realism" but too "realistic" for the really goofy anime stuff such as crying a literal river. It's pretty good for replicating manga characters but I doubt you can properly replicate the exaggerated movements from anime very well.

Basically you have a very narrow scope of usability. If you want to parody an anime, make something in the spirit of ero manga or just generally like colourful cuteness overload then Koikatsu is the tool for the job. For anything else Honey Select is the same program and UI so use that instead.

So TL;DR: why do you want to use Koikatsu?

 

[Yngling]

My biggest objection to Koikatsu is that characters tend to look similar to each other.
One blond girl looks exactly like another blonde girl, who even looks a lot like the blonde MILF.
Especially with games with a lot of characters, it really gets complicated to distinguish who is who.

Secondly I don't really like the art style. It approaches anime but not quite matches it. And I'm not a big anime fan to begin with.

However, it is a fairly easy way to get graphics for your game so I understand why devs use it. Honey Select is a bit better but not much, especially not if you want somewhat attractive and/or not Asian looking males.

For me, if I see a game with Koikatsu or Honey Select graphics, it must have something special for me to try it out. Such a game is definitely at a disadvantage to e.g. a Daz game.

 

[Soniram]

I like Koikatsu games if they do something different. There are many, many games using KK that just look the exact same, as others have said. Some of that comes down to the resources. Anyone can download KK and start making something, but 95% of the assets that come with the base game are school related. The maps, the clothes, and most of the items are geared towards telling a school-location story. Guess where most games, especially those on F95, are set at?

Yeah, it's easy to just pump out a KK game for a few bucks. But like any of the others (HS/2, Daz, etc.) it is a starting point. I haven't looked into my HS/HS2 programs yet because I'm still learning and developing in KK. Check out the image below:

Spoiler: Image

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Of course that wasn't done all in KK, but that's where it started.

Looking at all the games made in HS/HS2, the 'similar faces' strike me there just as much as many games in KK. So when I decided to use KK for my first real project, I made it a point to use assets that not many others use. I adjusted the looks of the characters to be different than other KK games. Some people reacted badly, others not so much. I don't think KK is a bad engine. I just don't think it gets used to its full potential.

HS/HS2 might be the same, I don't know. I haven't delved into it much at all. There are still assets, overlays, mods, and other development coming out for KK. IMHO, it isn't the platform you develop from but rather how you use it that is going to make it stand out from the plethora of other KK/HS2/Daz games out there.

 

[Sphere42]

My biggest objection to Koikatsu is that characters tend to look similar to each other.
One blond girl looks exactly like another blonde girl, who even looks a lot like the blonde MILF.
Especially with games with a lot of characters, it really gets complicated to distinguish who is who.

See unlike Honey Select which takes a lot of fiddling with sliders to fix that Koikatsu's "thematically appropriate" use actually lets you use an alternative without looking out of place: lean into the cartoonish ridiculousness of anime with hairstyles and -colours, accessories and outfits! Or if your game features a lot of talking portraits use iconic eye shapes and patterns, facial markings and smaller scale hair features (plus the obvious colours).

For example

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both are what passes as a "blonde MILF" in Pokémon and in a live action or high production quality DAZ style adaptation I wouldn't fault viewers for getting the names wrong if they swapped outfits. But one look at their canon-accurate hair or eyes is enough to tell them apart, the latter even works while they're naked and soaking wet.

Plus in low-effort games the issue still persists with DAZ anyway, not helped by the fact the same models are used in most of those games so you start confusing them with characters who aren't even in that game. You won't find half a dozen other characters who randomly look like Bulma or Ran Mouri or Asagi Igawa.

Of course that means you can't transform everyone into the same gyaru bimbo and stuff them in the same pink latex slut costume but if you're gonna do that what's the point of even having distinct characters in the first place?

 

[Lunardis]

As a developer of a game made with koikatsu, I see two reasons to use it:

The exaggerated expressions, for comical purposes:

Spoiler

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Sword fights and magic, seem to me very difficult to adapt them in a more realistic setting, same way it would be very difficult to adapt most fantasy anime in live action movie:

Spoiler

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To summarize, if you want to make something very anime-like, Koikatsu is probably the most appropriate.

 

[MLocke]

I think Honey Select (2) games like Eternum or Waifu Academy are better. It can go more or less realistic at your discretion. I think you have to do a lot of custom work / modding though. Like, I remember that someone had all this studio art for that one Illusion @HomeMate game or something that had perfect lightning years ago. They knew what they were doing unlike some games today that have easier access to assets and mods.

 

[Adabelitoo]

As someone who has been using Koikatsu for almost 4 years now, I read things such as "Always the same characters", "Koikatsu is for lazy devs" and "All assets/locations are the same" and I still can't understand if I've played way too many games here or if other haven't played enough games.

In DAZ you can find the exact same characters and the exact same rooms over and over again with the same dead eyes and nonexpressive facil expresion. Only god knows how many times this super generic black woman character has been used, and I bet you never saw

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. I won't even bother talking about HS because it also has default assets and characters that everyone use again and again, but for some magical reason some people think that Koikatsu is lazy but HS isn't. I guess the magical reason why people think DAZ isn't lazy is because devs have to wait from 5m to 2h for render, depending on how good their PC is, as if spending 5m-2h playing videogames with a cellphone/video game console was a lot of fair and hard work.

Yes, there are Koikatsu devs who are just lazy, and yes, some people uses the first characters/assets/places they find and look exaclty the same as many others Koikatsu games, but there are as many lazy Koikatsu devs as lazy DAZ and Honey Select devs are out there. In the exact same way, there are a lot of devs who put a lof of work in their games not just learning how to use Koikatsu but also creating their own characters and assets and perfecting every CG the most they can, as many hardworking devs as HS and DAZ devs are out ther, but no, Koikatsu is the problem...