Interest in Role Reversal (or femdom "lite")?

[Sphere42]

Despite ranting about lack of female agency in porn games all the time on here I must say based on the short pitch I'm not a fan. You deride dommes in games as "cartoon villains" yet it sounds like you want to use the tired old C-grade maledom doujin setting with even less sensible characters and fewer redeeming qualities than a Saturday morning cartoon, and simply flip the sex/gender switch like that changes anything.

And games like that already exist, except most of them focus on "sissyfication" as the core fetish so while open misandry and degradation of the M-PC might not be on the menu thorough emasculation generally is. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and you want to have distinctly different themes for the setting and the actual story/game content respectively and the latter will be more like a typical underdog tale.

Maybe there's a load of people who are into that kind of game but to me it sounds like you'd be bringing in all the icky rapetown, wimp MC, "but though must", alpha/beta and similar tropes which plague Japanese F-PC games while at the same time watering down the fetish content to no longer appeal to the niche audiences of hard femdom, futadom, sissyfication etc.

Oh and for a different pet peeve:

women only. They are stronger and smarter now (actually several enhancements and changes), to the point that men's ability to compete is minimal. Women are fitter and stronger, but otherwise look the same.

This is complete and utter bullcrap. We can kinda handwave intelligence to an extent but women today aren't anywhere even close to outmatched like that and the level of physical change needed for an "average" woman (let alone the slim curvy ones with massive tits we see in porn games!) to decisively beat fit trained men would be ridiculous.

Not to mention all the sociopolitical upheaval that's very likely to end in ruinous wars rather than men and women just swapping roles, but I presume you have a backstory to explain that part away.

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

Despite ranting about lack of female agency in porn games all the time on here I must say based on the short pitch I'm not a fan. You deride dommes in games as "cartoon villains" yet it sounds like you want to use the tired old C-grade maledom doujin setting with even less sensible characters and fewer redeeming qualities than a Saturday morning cartoon, and simply flip the sex/gender switch like that changes anything.

And games like that already exist, except most of them focus on "sissyfication" as the core fetish so while open misandry and degradation of the M-PC might not be on the menu thorough emasculation generally is. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and you want to have distinctly different themes for the setting and the actual story/game content respectively and the latter will be more like a typical underdog tale.

Maybe there's a load of people who are into that kind of game but to me it sounds like you'd be bringing in all the icky rapetown, wimp MC, "but though must", alpha/beta and similar tropes which plague Japanese F-PC games while at the same time watering down the fetish content to no longer appeal to the niche audiences of hard femdom, futadom, sissyfication etc.

Oh and for a different pet peeve:

This is complete and utter bullcrap. We can kinda handwave intelligence to an extent but women today aren't anywhere even close to outmatched like that and the level of physical change needed for an "average" woman (let alone the slim curvy ones with massive tits we see in porn games!) to decisively beat fit trained men would be ridiculous.

Not to mention all the sociopolitical upheaval that's very likely to end in ruinous wars rather than men and women just swapping roles, but I presume you have a backstory to explain that part away.

Hey: if you're not a fan you're not a fan. Didn't think I came off as putting down other games, just expressing my own preferences. I also don't think I ever implied that the changes women go through in my VN world are equal and opposite to current male/female reality. They're not. But use it to fuel your righteous anger if you like. I'm not really sure why you're so angry but honestly it's late and I'm probably too tired to properly read your post. I'll try again tomorrow.

But in the meantime what is a "doujin"?

 

[Sphere42]

I also don't think I ever implied that the changes women go through in my VN world are equal and opposite to current male/female reality.

Well you didn't mention superpowers or other supernatural elements but that's what the passage I quoted requires. People don't get "fitter and stronger" without building up substantial muscle mass. That part of my post was purely aimed at the science/realism aspect.

Separately from that "reversal" as in your title comes with the problem of never actually fixing any flaws in the original which is what the first half of my post was getting at. I'm not accusing you of being unable to do so, just highlighting the competition who could undermine any claims of uniqueness or innovation if you don't in order to focus on other aspects. NTR and "gender bender excuse plot" premises also deliver similar power structures for the (initially) male perspective character so the main part which stands out in your approach is the general setting.

But in the meantime what is a "doujin"?

Japanese comic books, the meaning of "doujin" and "manga" differs between Japan and the West but either could be used here.
In this case I was specifically referring to the Japanese equivalents of "incel logic" prevalent in their porn comics as "women are servants or property" tends to be a common theme presented as simple fact even when the story doesn't innately require it. Your "men cannot compete" description sounded very similar to that.

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

Well you didn't mention superpowers or other supernatural elements but that's what the passage I quoted requires. People don't get "fitter and stronger" without building up substantial muscle mass. That part of my post was purely aimed at the science/realism aspect.

Separately from that "reversal" as in your title comes with the problem of never actually fixing any flaws in the original which is what the first half of my post was getting at. I'm not accusing you of being unable to do so, just highlighting the competition who could undermine any claims of uniqueness or innovation if you don't in order to focus on other aspects. NTR and "gender bender excuse plot" premises also deliver similar power structures for the (initially) male perspective character so the main part which stands out in your approach is the general setting.



Japanese comic books, the meaning of "doujin" and "manga" differs between Japan and the West but either could be used here.
In this case I was specifically referring to the Japanese equivalents of "incel logic" prevalent in their porn comics as "women are servants or property" tends to be a common theme presented as simple fact even when the story doesn't innately require it. Your "men cannot compete" description sounded very similar to that.

I don't personally have a problem with some unrealistic elements of stories, but when characters behave in ways too removed from reality I don't like it. I quite enjoy fantasy and science fiction, but characters within those worlds have to behave and think in ways that match our familiar world of reality I think. So yes, the changes to women in my world are not possible. I freely admit that. Hopefully I've done a good enough job of character building that players can suspend disbelief.

To make it at least more believable I'd point out that muscle fiber recruitment can vary from person to person, as a neurological effect. So someone who has no experience lifting heavy weights can't lift very heavy weights. That's partially because they haven't built up much muscle mass, but also because their brain can't efficiently recruit what muscle they do have. Beginners in early stages of weight training will experience rapid increases in the weights they can handle mostly not because they have already drastically increased muscle size, but because their brain is becoming trained to more effectively recruit muscle fibers. Another example that can explain being stronger without being much bigger is powerlifters. They train at intensities and in rep ranges that increase strength without increasing muscle size as much. I have seen female powerlifters who don't look all that much bigger than the average woman on the street lift weights many times the average. I take it to extremes in my world, but those are a couple effects that can get us partly there at least.

I'm not trying to "fix" anything in the current social structure, or point out ways in which it could be better even. I'm offering an alternate world with different rules and realities that is hopefully interesting and attractive to some, that's all.

I'm not very familiar with manga, or much in Japanese media culture, so thanks for the explanation.

 

[Viscount1]

I'll be honest I skipped most of the arguing, but your game sounds interesting!

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

I'll be honest I skipped most of the arguing, but your game sounds interesting!

Thanks for letting me know! Yeah, the arguing - sheesh. When I announce the first release I think I'll add a disclaimer! Lotta people think I'm making a socio-political statement. Either that women SHOULD dominate men, or that somehow I'm insulting women by assuming they CAN'T "rule" without extra increases in strength and intelligence. Can't a guy just tell a story indulging his sexual fetishes without being labeled a culture warrior?

 

[woody554]

Yeah, the arguing - sheesh. When I announce the first release I think I'll add a disclaimer!

don't. just do what you do. and the arguing just brings your game more visibility so it's all good.

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

don't. just do what you do. and the arguing just brings your game more visibility so it's all good.

Interesting suggestion. You may have a point.

 

[Jaike]

don't. just do what you do. and the arguing just brings your game more visibility so it's all good.

It gives attention, but it can make a toxic atmosphere at first and it can leave the first pages of comments look ugly and uninviting. I think a disclaimer and a suggestion that people don't add political discussions, is a good idea. Then report anything seriously political like crazy.

Can't a guy just tell a story indulging his sexual fetishes without being labeled a culture warrior?

No. Many fetishes draw insanity, but "societal" femdom gets worse political rants than your friendly neighbourhood fetish.

Good luck with the release.

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

No. Many fetishes draw insanity, but "societal" femdom gets worse political rants than your friendly neighbourhood fetish.

Good luck with the release.

LMAO. That's certainly been my experience! Thanks!

 

[track989]

"I'm usually disappointed by femdom games. The stories seem contrived, driven by women you don't find in the real world, that are more like cartoon villains than anything else." - Strongly agreed

"fit within the story to try and bridge the gap between "compelling adult story" and "femdom wankfest"" - +++ interest from me

My usual solution to this problem is described pretty nicely in the first reply to the thread: "I prefer alternate world type games like desert stalker for that exact reason, I can much more easily imagine the people in that scenario acting the way they do because of the world they're in" - and it does tend to be 3D render/daz games that suffer the worst from this problem since the available library of models etc somewhat favours a real world setting, where other engines/formats have no bias or a fantasy bias.

However:

The world of The Alpha Gender is this world (takes place in Los Angeles) in 2030, after (or during, really) a worldwide epigenetic change that has occurred in women only. They are stronger and smarter now (actually several enhancements and changes), to the point that men's ability to compete is minimal. Women are fitter and stronger, but otherwise look the same. So this is the primary plot-driver. The MC has to deal with new dangers resulting from this, to his personal safety, his relationship, his career... and his pride.

I will say my experience of the "female led society that emerged from the real world naturally" trope as I've seen it in *previous* games tends to:
1) correlate very heavily with something extremely far on the "femdom wankfest" side of the scale between that & "compelling adult story". Obviously from the sounds of it your game is intended to strike a balance and err on the side of "compelling adult story", so I suppose be aware you're in a traditionally difficult territory
2) have a narratively anti-immersive effect, I just find it hard to believe such a deep seated societal change could occur in the timeframes and mechanisms by which it's usually described. I believe I'd find this jarring even if it were written relatively well

I'm guessing you're not particularly keen to write a story with the setting "I was hit by a truck and reincarnated into a fantasy world where ravenous succubi and fairies roam the plains and it's not safe for men to be outside at night" which is fair. But it seems I'm not alone in actually preferring even something as heavily contrived as that isekai stuff over a "society has swapped" narrative, even from an immersion point of view.

I don't really have any particular advice beyond those comments, it seems like your game is quite well progressed already & I assume you're doing everything you can to make the setting believable, that's just my personal feedback. I recognise that being more easily immersed in "fantasy isekai plot" than "worldwide gendered epigenetic change plot" isn't gonna be a universal thing, and I might even be in the minority there... but the first replier did say something similar so there's that.

Spoiler: edit: actually forget all this

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Anyway, good luck with the game, I'll be sure to check it out at some point. If I was at all nitpicky it's just because your stated design goal sounds great, so I wanted to offer whatever thoughts I could offer

 

[BlasterChief]

BDSM in general is one of my favourites and it doesn't really matter to me whether it's femdom or maledom. The problem with most games based on this fetish is the apparent lack of understanding of the intricacies of BDSM-relationships on the side of the writers. Most games tend to drift into the direction of a cartoonish villain(ess) forcing someone into an abusive relationship and the "victims" liking it or simply giving up on themselves.
In reality a functioning BDSM-relationship requires a much larger amount of trust, mututal understanding and willingness to empathise with your partner than normal relationships. I'd love to see a game that manages to get these aspects right.

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

"I'm usually disappointed by femdom games. The stories seem contrived, driven by women you don't find in the real world, that are more like cartoon villains than anything else." - Strongly agreed

"fit within the story to try and bridge the gap between "compelling adult story" and "femdom wankfest"" - +++ interest from me

My usual solution to this problem is described pretty nicely in the first reply to the thread: "I prefer alternate world type games like desert stalker for that exact reason, I can much more easily imagine the people in that scenario acting the way they do because of the world they're in" - and it does tend to be 3D render/daz games that suffer the worst from this problem since the available library of models etc somewhat favours a real world setting, where other engines/formats have no bias or a fantasy bias.

However:



I will say my experience of the "female led society that emerged from the real world naturally" trope as I've seen it in *previous* games tends to:
1) correlate very heavily with something extremely far on the "femdom wankfest" side of the scale between that & "compelling adult story". Obviously from the sounds of it your game is intended to strike a balance and err on the side of "compelling adult story", so I suppose be aware you're in a traditionally difficult territory
2) have a narratively anti-immersive effect, I just find it hard to believe such a deep seated societal change could occur in the timeframes and mechanisms by which it's usually described. I believe I'd find this jarring even if it were written relatively well

I'm guessing you're not particularly keen to write a story with the setting "I was hit by a truck and reincarnated into a fantasy world where ravenous succubi and fairies roam the plains and it's not safe for men to be outside at night" which is fair. But it seems I'm not alone in actually preferring even something as heavily contrived as that isekai stuff over a "society has swapped" narrative, even from an immersion point of view.

I don't really have any particular advice beyond those comments, it seems like your game is quite well progressed already & I assume you're doing everything you can to make the setting believable, that's just my personal feedback. I recognise that being more easily immersed in "fantasy isekai plot" than "worldwide gendered epigenetic change plot" isn't gonna be a universal thing, and I might even be in the minority there... but the first replier did say something similar so there's that.

Spoiler: edit: actually forget all this

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Anyway, good luck with the game, I'll be sure to check it out at some point. If I was at all nitpicky it's just because your stated design goal sounds great, so I wanted to offer whatever thoughts I could offer

I greatly appreciate all your comments and the fact you're willing to significantly engage about this, though I admit I had a hard time following some of it. Your guesses about my direction are mostly on-point. I don't include any sissification, though the eventual main female character does sometimes put her boys in embarrassing clothing. The clothing is mostly just sexually objectifying but can also be "near-feminine" (for example having them wear sexually revealing skimpy clothing at a party that is pink or has pink trim).

When the story begins the epigenetic change (the Change) has already been underway for a couple years, and only some final effects are still emerging or about to emerge. There is still a great deal of confusion and friction, but men mostly have already chosen which "camp" they fall into: either resist, complain and protest the loss of status and power, or realize that this is the new reality, and do your best to find a way to fit into that paradigm. I didn't want to drag players through many months of subtle changes and social confusion. If I had I would have been tempted to accelerate the pace to keep it from getting boring, in which case it would have seemed unnaturally rapid.

I would say the protagonist is the bottom rather than the feminine partner, but there is crossover. As a man you're no longer the physical superior so the sense of threat can be high. Female sexual drive and aggression are increased. Imagine a guy stepping into an elevator or walking through a parking garage where there are one or more women. You're going to look straight ahead and avoid eye contact, hoping you get to your car or floor without incident. If you can form a connection with a woman who has self control, capable of protecting you, you've got to become valuable to her so she has a reason to do so. In a way, now you're the "damsel" in search of a hero(ine).

 

[Mikethe3DGuy]

BDSM in general is one of my favourites and it doesn't really matter to me whether it's femdom or maledom. The problem with most games based on this fetish is the apparent lack of understanding of the intricacies of BDSM-relationships on the side of the writers. Most games tend to drift into the direction of a cartoonish villain(ess) forcing someone into an abusive relationship and the "victims" liking it or simply giving up on themselves.
In reality a functioning BDSM-relationship requires a much larger amount of trust, mututal understanding and willingness to empathise with your partner than normal relationships. I'd love to see a game that manages to get these aspects right.

I may not be explaining it clearly, but part of what I'm trying to do here is get away from a classic BDSM dynamic. I like that too, but wanted to create something different. The average woman doesn't want to throw on a leather corset and heels, pick up a crop and start torturing or tying up their male partner, even if they suddenly could do so without the need for his consent. But all/most people naturally make use of superior attributes to get what they want out of life, whether they're male or female.

Whatever you think of the male/female societal dynamic, whether you refer to "the patriarchy" or "the natural order" it's clear that females have some differences from males that have resulted in them having less physical, political and financial power than them. Even if an individual woman is superior to the average man in physical strength (some even today are) she can't use that to great effect due to a social stigma against strong women or aggressive women, not to mention morality and laws. But if all women were physically superior, that stigma would vanish virtually overnight, and laws at least (I think) would start to give women a "pass". I have added more than just physical superiority of course, but also advantages in other areas where they were previously just equal to men. I think women in these circumstances, while not necessarily turning into dommes, would use those advantages to simply take what they want. Money, power, pleasure, leisure. And they'd just use men as tools to get there. Men would find themselves used as servants, sexual playthings, and often abused too.

And of course many women will likely find that it's a blast to be on top, and so not all of their behaviors with men will necessarily be for some concrete gain. The world is full of damaged men and women, people harboring grudges and vendettas, fetishes, dark sexual desires, etc...

 

[Meaning Less]

BDSM in general is one of my favourites and it doesn't really matter to me whether it's femdom or maledom.

BDSM is not the same thing as femdom/maledom, they are different tags for a reason. You should stick to exclusive bdsm games if you don't want the actual domination stuff leaking into them.

 

[BlasterChief]

BDSM is not the same thing as femdom/maledom, they are different tags for a reason. You should stick to exclusive bdsm games if you don't want the actual domination stuff leaking into them.

I'm not talking about tags. I hope you are aware that BDSM is a very broad field and the D/S-aspect includes various forms of domination and submission. Too many people only see the B/D and S/M aspects, but it's much more than that.

 

[Meaning Less]

I hope you are aware that BDSM is a very broad field

And I hope you are aware that you are bringing BDSM on a femdom thread that has nothing to do with it...

 

[BlasterChief]

And I hope you are aware that you are bringing BDSM on a femdom thread that has nothing to do with it...

Don't be a sad little puppy and yap at people or at least come up with a better comeback.
Seriously, I came to a femdom thread because this interests me as an aspect of BDSM as a whole and I am seriously interested in this game. If you've got a problem with that, then well, that's entirely your problem.